Offering advice at the range?

[luzyfuerza]

As an RO, my primary focus is on making sure that everyone is safe.

As long as that priority is met, then, like Denton

I chat with everyone, ask them if they are having a good time, how they like their obviously new firearm, etc. I enjoy the interaction, and it makes it easier for them to ask for help if they need it.

In fact, most of the ROs at the range where we both work take this approach. Its one reason why its such a great place to shoot.

Last Saturday a fellow was really struggling to sight in a scoped .44 mag lever action rifle. He asked if I could watch where his rounds were landing, and could I help him adjust his scope. In just three or four rounds shooting at steel I was able to help him get on paper at a hundred yards. He was then able on his own to get his scope fine-tuned to right where he wanted it.

We had a safe shift, and the shooter went home with a properly-set-up rifle. It was a great day.

 

[cougar1717]

Typically, I do not offer unsolicited advise. Most of the time, I mind my own business. Part of this is that I have received too much unsolicited advice. Old men who know it all, younger men who are internet commandos parroting fallacies that they read somewhere or saw on youtube. Many times, they have the desire to show someone, anyone who will listen, that they have knowledge. It's very common and it's probably happened to you too. A simple, "Thank you" at a stopping point usually works without poking the bear and turning it into a 45 minute diatribe on their favorite topic.

If someone is doing something unsafe, that is for the RO to handle (at ranges that have them) and Conservation agent or Sheriff to handle (at ranges that don't). Sometimes the best thing to do is just pack up and leave... or pack up and wait at the car. They usually burn up their ammo quickly.

If someone can't hit the broadside of a barn and is visibly at that frustration point, it's appropriate to make small talk. Sometimes I can help and sometimes I can't. Sometimes it is the mechanics of shooting and other times there is something mechanically wrong with the firearm. Helping someone with a flinch is one thing; trying to tell someone in a nice way that their red-dot is garbage (it won't hold zero) is another.

IF franken-AR guys who have cycling problems ask for help, is it bad of me to wait for the words "custom built by a friend?"

 

[Walkalong]

"Would you like a hand" or "May I make a suggestion"... is the correct approach in my opinion. Making an offer that someone can accept of decline is much more productive

Absolutely.

 

[roval]

it's not uncommon to see somebody next to me sighting in a gun and starting off at 50 to 100 yrds and not get on paper after quite a bit of ammo. if i notice it and ask how they are doing ( almost everybody starts going on about what they are doing and trying) i make a general recommendatuon of starting closer in. if they were receptive and still having problems i tell them about how to bore sight it just to get them on paper quicker.

 

[roval]

handguns...the time i ask the R O to interject is if they cover the line with the muzzle.

if i see somebody with their thumbs crossed behind the slide of an semiauto i interrupt with a " may i make a suggestion"... it's for my self preservation, i don't want somebody dropping a loaded gun next to me when they hurt themselves shooting like that.

 

[FL-NC]

If someone asks, I'll assist. If someone is clearly having problems, I'll start by looking at their equipment and telling them how nice it is (even if it isn't) and ask if they want any help "dialing in". As a former instructor world-wide, I hate it when I see people not getting results for their efforts. As a former instructor world-wide, my time and knowledge is also worth $, but I don't mind "paying it forward" when its a "regular guy" shooting on his own time and own dime. but if he/she doesn't want the free help and wants to try and "power through it" solo, that's ok too.

 

[luger fan]

In the late 1980's I was shooting at the former Dons Guns on 96th and Keystone, Indy. They put 2 guys and an 18-20 year old girl in the lane next to me. They REEKED of pot and beer. ALL of them kept sweeping the line with their muzzles. I told them 2-3 times to be careful but they ignored it. I said screw it and left. I told the manager and he didn't seem to care.

Few hours later I saw on the news that the girl dropped the old POS wheel gun, it went off, and she bled out before 911 arrived.

I will always remember them and to this day I am ALWAYS the first one at the range and shoot way on the end. If it gets crowded I leave.

 

[BWS]

I'm usually so focused on my shooting that other than blatant disregard for safety...... couldn't even tell you who was at the range,much less how they're doing?

 

[Bushpilot]

There are these two "regulars" at the matches that I frequently participate in... Whenever anyone new shows up at least one of these guys always gets to talking with them and winds ups "coaching" them for the rest of the shoot. One of the guys is a good shot and usually means well but is way too insistent on "helping" and never goes away once he finds a new "pupil." The other is just your typical know-it-all type. It seems like almost every week I see some poor Nube gets the full treatment from one of these guys and usually I get the feeling that after a few minutes of this the "New guy" would just like them to go away but is either too polite or wants to "fit in" too much to come out and say "thanks for the tips, I think I got it from here".

My "advise" concerning "offering advise" is it's OK to start a conversation, make some one feel welcome and maybe offer some assistance but unless a person keeps asking questions or chatting with you it's best to keep the advise or "helpful tips" to a minimum...

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Typically, I do not offer unsolicited advise. Most of the time, I mind my own business. Part of this is that I have received too much unsolicited advice. Old men who know it all, younger men who are internet commandos parroting fallacies that they read somewhere or saw on youtube. Many times, they have the desire to show someone, anyone who will listen, that they have knowledge. It's very common and it's probably happened to you too. A simple, "Thank you" at a stopping point usually works without poking the bear and turning it into a 45 minute diatribe on their favorite topic.

I totally agree and I've had this happen in my career. It gets old really fast. Now that I'm the boss and most experienced guy in my department I sometimes have to keep myself from getting up from my desk and advising my employees on a conversation I'm overhearing that's work related. I try to let them figure things out on their own because those lessons stick better.

On the range I never really try to engage with folks unless I get a clear idea that's what they want. I'll talk to the RO a bit but just quick and casual discussions. They are working and I don't want to eat up their time if someone really needs their help.

If someone is doing something unsafe, that is for the RO to handle (at ranges that have them) and Conservation agent or Sheriff to handle (at ranges that don't). Sometimes the best thing to do is just pack up and leave... or pack up and wait at the car. They usually burn up their ammo quickly.

This I don't agree with. In my one intercession event I described above the RO was trying to help a guy sight in an AR. He couldn't see what I was seeing. These two young guys were shooting a rented 22 revolver and one had his index finger of his support hand to the left of the cylinder in line with the barrel cylinder gap. On the table was a 357 that was next on the list to shoot. Using that same grip he could have gotten a nasty burn if shooting magnums. His finger was about a half inch from the gap.

I'm not going to watch someone doing something that could get them hurt and not try to prevent it.

It's all about approach. I asked them respectfully if they'd shot a lot of revolvers before and when they said no I told them I'd just seen something that could get them hurt. I asked if I could show them and they welcomed the advice.

The RO wasn't seeing the problem. I was. I had a responsibility as far as I'm concerned.

I'd pull someone out of the way if they were going to be run over also.

 

[roval]

There are these two "regulars" at the matches that I frequently participate in... Whenever anyone new shows up at least one of these guys always gets to talking with them and winds ups "coaching" them for the rest of the shoot. One of the guys is a good shot and is generally well meaning but is way too insistent on "helping" and never goes away once he finds a new "pupil." The other is just your typical know-it-all type. It seems like almost every week I see some poor Nube get the full treatment from one of these guys and usually I get the feeling that after a few minutes of this the "New guy" would just like them to go away but is either too polite or wants to "fit in" too much to come out and say "thanks for the tips, I think I got it ..

when i was starting to shoot in 2009, i was interested in 2 hobbies rc planes and shooting. i just had a newly bought 22 lr pistol and a new 10/22 as well as beginner plane. getting into rc was a pain as i couldn't learn by myself after the initial instruction. i couldn't fly by myself. somebody had to supervise me(to make sure you know the pattern etc....) and going to a dedicated rc airstrip was even worse. it was all regulars who just talked amongst themselves and was slightly pedantic and condesecending when asked for help. i said to hell with this i poured more of my hobby money into shooting. i found more of the helpful people to be less obtrusive.

i learned by myself with reading and after putting more rounds downrange.

your 2 regulars sounds like some of the rc folks i encountered.

 

[Walkalong]

it's not uncommon to see somebody next to me sighting in a gun

Yea, I have helped a lot of people get on paper. They always appreciate it.

I have bore sighted a bolt gun for them the old fashioned way and got them on paper at 100 yards. That is like magic to them.

 

[1KPerDay]

If someone asks for advice I am more than willing to offer my opinion. But what I cannot stand is a local guy that frequents our range, that is constantly talking about how great of a shot he is, how he was a "sniper" in the military, has the best accessories for his gun yet when he shoots at the targets at 50yrds it looks like he shot it with 6 shot from a 12 ga.

Takes all kinds. Lots of shooters aren't really there for the shooting. They want camaraderie. Yes they can be annoying.

As for advice, if I want it, I'll ask. If a certain case seems to me an opportunity to help in an area where I have experience, I'll ask "would you like some advice?" If no, no biggie. If yes, keep it brief and factual.

 

[Hokkmike]

Couple times lately I've sat at a bench next to shooters that seemed to have a nice assemblage of gear but were struggling at 50 yds to put one on the paper. While glassing others targets I see no holes, dirt kicking up above or below, and the poor guy is still putting 20+ rounds downrange. In both case's a bore sighting was needed (AR's), and both shooters thanked me for my help. My question is, has anyone had a bad experience "Butting In" like I did, and wish they hadn't?

Have never "butted in" as you say. Was tempted to once when a father let his son keep the bolt on his rifle closed and pointed downrange when people went to check their targets.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Have never "butted in" as you say. Was tempted to once when a father let his son keep the bolt on his rifle closed and pointed downrange when people went to check their targets.

If no one was handling the rifle it would probably be best to leave it be

 

[paulsj]

When I go to handgun range I stay in my cubicle follow safery rules and mind my own business. Safety items are: shooting glasses , hearing protection and latest generation bullet resistant vest.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Safety items are: shooting glasses , hearing protection and latest generation bullet resistant vest.

You wear body armor to the range?

 

[Mn Fats]

My range is at my farm. I mostly only shoot with family members who all know their stuff for the most part. Sometimes a small question will come up that I'll answer. The most help they need is to have me shoot a gun thats grouping poorly after them to help eliminate operator error.

I've been at a few public ranges and I personally wouldn't give anyone advice unless they came over and asked. I seen the whole "hey nice gun, how's it shootin?" approach. Nice old man seen a 20 something year old was having problems. Kid looks at him and says "let's just crush this conversation right now". Felt bad for the nice old guy.

Ive learned to stay out of people's business. On the range or elsewhere. Now someone asking for help is different.

 

[Skgreen]

For me, safety is generally one subject and 'offering advice' is another.

On the later,,,,,, "It depends",,,,

Sometimes I revel in the failure of others, and other times I'd honestly like to help. /

If attempting to help, it's always something very simple and it typically starts with me saying 'When I had that happen to me,,,"

I'm not much for 'accepting' any kind of help from a stranger, no matter how well intentioned.

 

[Skgreen]

Nice old man seen a 20 something year old was having problems. Kid looks at him and says "let's just crush this conversation right now". Felt bad for the nice old guy

With very few exceptions, there will always be a way to respectfully decline an offer of assistance.

 

[jmace57]

I have found that if you start off a conversation with a question like "what are you shooting"? Or, "how do you like that 1911 (or Glock, or whatever)"? A lot of times, then the person will say :"I'm having a hard time with it" and you can start a conversation...or if you get a "fine"...you know to just drop it.

(oops - I see Legionnaire had the same approach)

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Advice on the range is like advice anywhere else: there are always those who do and do not like getting it and there are always those who do and do not know how to give it.

The worst combination is probably someone who doesn't know how (or when) to give it interacting with someone who doesn't want anybody else's advice.

Whether giving or receiving, how it's presented and received plays a large part. Over the top know-it-alls are no more welcome than ill-mannered receivers.


I say this:

It's always nice to be "neighborly", but you've got to pick and choose as best you can when considering an offer of advice. (Nobody likes a buttinsky.) If it's not well-received...then excuse yourself and carry on smartly.

It's also nice to be "neighborly" in receiving advice. If you don't want it or don't want THAT particular advice...then be gracious about bowing out on it.

 

[rskent]

When I am at the range shooting, like most here, Unless I know you I am not gonna give you advise unless you ask. If you ask, I will help if I can. If I can’t help, I can generally steer you in the direction of someone that can.

When I am doing my RSO duties, if you are doing something unsafe (by the rules of the club) I will certainly have a chat with you. But if you are being safe, you don’t need me butting into your business. You came to the club to shoot and have fun. Far be it for to me to decide that you can’t be having fun just because you can’t hit the broadside of a barn. Again, like most here, if you ask for help, I will do whatever I can.

 

[1KPerDay]

You wear body armor to the range?

Not a bad idea. Couple times I'd have been glad to have some. Public ranges suck.

 

[Axis II]

You wear body armor to the range?

depending on where i am and who I'm training i do. I was asked by a female friend who has never touched a firearm in over 30yrs for help and when i do help her i will have my body armor on.