Neat 1876 winchester full stock carbine

if I do any target shooting I use cast bullets and for some hunting if they are accurett enough for the hunting I want to do. I have several rifles that just don,t like cast bullets and in those I use jacketed bullets for hunting. after sighting in the sights for the ranges I want I only use jacketed bullets to hunt, maybe 4-5 shots a year. Winchester loaded all their rifle ammo with jacketed bullets well into the 19th century. I think most unwanted wear on the older rifle barrels was due to improper cleaning rod use.

I have seen several rifles at big time Auctions marked NGH and then listed as from Hawaii National guard..

I.E..

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/55/1340/remington-arms-inc-1885-rifle-4570

By the way OP... Beyond cool rifle..

Dave DeLaurant said:

Don't know what arms the Hawaiian Guardsmen carried, but as an aside, my wife's grandfather (seated, right) and other men from his family enlisted in the First Hawaiian Infantry Regiment during WWI. I always thought his service in that unit was a pretty neat bit of family history.

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According to Wikipedia: "The 298th Infantry was organized as the 1st Regiment, National Guard of Hawaii from 1893-95 at Honolulu. It was redesignated as the 1st Hawaiian Infantry Regiment and mobilized into Federal service during World War I at Fort Shafter, Hawaii from 1918-19".

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That’s so cool! Can you imagine the poor bastard when he finally hit the ground somewhere up in northwestern France though? That’s got to be the Hawaiian version of Hell!

Dave DeLaurant said:

Nice! Reminds me of the pretty 45-60 Winchester Tom Selleck's character in TNT movie 'Crossfire Trail' wielded:

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Cimmarron offers a neat replica version, but nothing beats an original:

https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/crossfire-carbine-45-60-22-round-barrel.html

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CDNN had some of these on closeout a few years back and I’ve kicked myself several times for not having bought one. Giving myself another kick...

DocRock said:

Why do we think NGH is not "National Guard of Hawaii"? Formed in 1893 under the provisional government of the Republic of Hawaii, that was its formal name. Granted, as formed in 1893, it had no cavalry element, but I can't imagine it had a great uniformity of weaponry either. After annexation in 1898, the National Guard of Hawaii joined the Army National Guard system and became the "Hawaii Army National Guard".

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The posters in this thread have shown NGH is an abbreviation for National Guard, Hawaii. So outstanding detective work to those on this site.

Now we positively know that Winchester lever actions were being issued to the National Guard of a State. Does anyone know if these were issued to the Regular Army in any quantity?

DocRock said:

After annexation in 1898, the National Guard of Hawaii joined the Army National Guard system and became the "Hawaii Army National Guard".

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Now that’s quite the abbreviation, HANG. lol

In the link to Cimarron Firearms, they mention countries who used the gun, and Hawaii was one, but they didn’t delineate between rifle and carbine.

It would be worthwhile IMO to get a factory letter for that rifle. It will tell you when it was shipped from the factory and where it was sent. You can order that here.

DocRock said:

That’s so cool! Can you imagine the poor bastard when he finally hit the ground somewhere up in northwestern France though? That’s got to be the Hawaiian version of Hell!

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They never got off the islands in WWI, so not an issue -- I think the unit was raised in the unlikely event the Germans decided to invade from one of their already seized Pacific possessions.

Curiously, had that half of my wife's family stayed on in Hawaii instead of moving to California, they could have avoided internment during WWII. There were about twice as many Japanese-Americans living in the Hawaiian islands than on the mainland, so internment there was a practical and economic impossibility.

Slamfire said:

The posters in this thread have shown NGH is an abbreviation for National Guard, Hawaii. So outstanding detective work to those on this site.

Now we positively know that Winchester lever actions were being issued to the National Guard of a State. Does anyone know if these were issued to the Regular Army in any quantity?

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I don't think the US Army was ever issued a lever action rifle, but to piggyback off of @Dave DeLaurant . Cimarron makes a North West Mounted Police issue repop that's similar.

https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/p...ting-rifles-1/model-1876/n-w-m-p-carbine.html

@LoonWulf That is an AWESOME piece of family history. You might mention to whatever family member gets it that you’d like first dibs if they decide to sell it. It would be a tragedy if that gun ever left the family.

LoonWulf said:

I was looking at the new production .45-90 1886s on GunBroker, figure why .45-70, when it comes in extra large?
that crescent but plate needs to be a squishy pad on a 45-90 I think......

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The .45-90 is great fun. It gives you an extra quarter inch of space for bullet or powder, as you prefer. No problems shooting or feeding .45-70 if you want to, at least in mine which is a converted browning.

For any serious loads the crescent butt plate stock needs to be replaced with a shotgun butt type stock. A pad is a good idea too. For black powder level the crescent is survivable.

An 1886 and 1885 in .45-90:

Speedo66 said:

I was advised not to shoot copper jacketed bullets through my 1889 '73, the idea being that the barrels were made of fairly soft steel. Is it considered OK in the later models?

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In 1896 Winchester started producing the .30-30 version of the 1894 Winchester which required a jacketed bullet and smokeless proofing, and therefore a more wear resistant barrel steel.
I also found an article stating that both Winchester and Remington UMC were producing "metal-patched" .44-40 ammunition after 1896.
My 1908 reprint Sears & Roebuck catalog does show .32-20 metal patched and soft point smokeless ammunition for sale, as well as metal patched smokeless ammunition for a variety of cartridges.
So yes, I would say that it would be okay to shoot JSP ammunition through smokeless proofed vintage Winchester pistol caliber lever guns made around the turn of the century after 1896. That might not include the later 1873 model guns assembled around that time though.