338 WinMag vs 30-06....?

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All that you read and see in the commercial media is advertising designed to create uninformed consumers who make irrational choices. The quote is from Noam Chomsky, and I agree with his analysis of advertising, and you see how shooters repeat what they are taught.

While more means more, I am of the opinion that what really counts in terms of lethality is the bullet that makes the biggest through hole. And what is totally missing in this discussion, and in 99% of the discussions on calibers, is the difference in penetration depth and wound channel between the rounds under discussion. Also, not the wound channel and penetration at short distance, but the effective distances being claimed for the cartridges. You notice everything you read in the in print press , if it is presented at all in ballistic gelatin, are 25/50/100 yard shots. Well if the cartridge is sold as a 600 yard, 1000 yard, 1500 yard hunting round, then the consumer should be seeing the expansion of the bullet and the wound channel it creates at those distances. What we do see is 25/50/100 yard data which of course, bullet expansion is just wonderful! The typical bullets on the market don't expand when velocities are less than 1800 fps, and when the 30-06 or 338 Win slow down to that velocity, the difference between the bullet holes, on target, is exactly 0.030 inches. There are posters who make convincing arguments that 0.030 inches is greater than the span of the Grand Canyon and that the game can tell when it is hit with a bullet 0.030 inches larger in size!

And where did they learn this stuff?, because they sure can't have thought of these analyses by themselves. Why, they must be reading this stuff.!!

As do all industries, the shooting industry depends on churn, so the cartridge du jour will be old hat tomorrow. I am surprised that they are still chambering rifles in the 338 Win Mag but even so, it is no doubt a fine cartridge and does everything you would expect from a round that pushes a 225 grain bullet to 2800 fps. Including the recoil! I was given a 338 Win Mag to shoot for a silhouette match, and I was stupid enough to shoot the thing in a rifle match where all shots for record were made standing. I can say, about 8 shots into a 40 shot match, my flinch was horrible! These magnum rounds really, really kick. And that is important, if you cannot control your flinch with these monsters than you should not be using them on game. A good standard is, "can you keep all your shots within 8 inches at the distance you are shooting". Eight inches reflect the typical lethal zone on N.American game, and if you can't keep your first shot, and your last shot, within 8 inches, then you are going to wound some poor animal and un necessarily increase it's suffering. Many could care less about the suffering of another, and even less about some defenseless animal that runs off and dies an agonizing death due to a poorly placed shot. But, if you are not one of these individuals, you ought to look realistically about your ability to hit at distance with a powerful cartridge.
 
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I’m really curious what the noise will be like. As far as I can tell the brake isn’t adjustable. So it will be loud all the time. And I’ve seen some people shooting the 338 without brakes on YouTube and it doesn’t look like recoil is bad at all. I won’t ever hunt Grizzly. Have no desire. Elk probably at some point. Moose maybe but doubtful. I hunt pretty thick timber for deer, so I doubt it sees use for that. And I have rifles much better suited. Maybe long range hogs. But I’ve never killed one past probably 75 yards. I can’t just let this thing sit in a safe. View attachment 870054
From a practical standpoint the .338 dosent offer anything your other cartridges don't in terms of taking game.
That Rifle tho...it's got bad weather, critter, gitter written all over it........

Radial brakes tend to be a little higher pitched in my experience, but less concussive than side venters, they also blow crap all over you when you get too close to the ground.
I'm not a fan of hunting with a brake, and I'd probably get a thread protector for that, but in terms of of pain to the shooter I think most radials are better than side venters.

forgot to mention, that radials are WAY less offensive to bystanders....least in my experience they are.
 
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Assuming I’m not max loading, what kind of brass life can I expect?
Ive not used the .338s, but Ive shot quite a few 7mms and .300s, and one thing ive noticed is chambers tend to be kinda long, or brass a little short. If i shoot factory ammo I expect to get at least 3-4 full power loadings with no annealing before I get a shoulder crack.
If i anneal, expand to a cal or two larger, then neck back down to headspace on the should rather than the belt....im honestly not sure. Ive gone 10+ on the same 20 cases, i know THAT for a fact because I didnt buy any more brass, and shot over a box of bullets with them. At that point im annealing every few firings tho, and ive also noticed case stretching is very minimal, so rarely trim.
For the most part i loose them before they fail, or just scrap them when they get too ugly.
This is also assuming fresh brass
 
I would say 4-5 hot more loaded light. The problem is trying to chamber them after fireing a few times. The dies don't size good down by the belt. There is a guy making die to size close to the belt. I have to look the name up. There like $100 but if you have more then one magnum it's worth it.

my dad had one from a Lee neck sized die years ago.
 
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I would say 4-5 hot more loaded light. The problem is trying to chamber them after fireing a few times. The does don't size good down buy the belt. There is a guy making die to size close to the belt. I have to look the name up. There like $100 but if you have more then one magnum it's worth it.

my dad had one from a Lee neck sized die years ago.
Ive only ever had a single rifle in each cal at the time, so havent really noticed it. That does make sense tho, as it would be hard to get that last little bit.
 
Anneal every time, headspace on the shoulder, use the Larry Willis when a sized case resists closing under weight of the knob, and paperclip after 3-4 loadings, then every loading after 8-10 loadings to monitor body health and case separation potential. Pockets will likely get loose after a dozen to 15 loadings. If you hot rod them early, they might go loose after 3 loads.

The shoulder certainly moves the most in the first firing if you headspace on the shoulder from then on. But the body springs back the most on the first firing, so other than the shoulder, the ~3-4th likely does the most “putting it where it stays,” for the rest of the case. Observationally.
 
I think the 338 WM is the perfect cartridge for one-gun African plains game if eland is on the wish list. Normally I carry a 375 (or larger) when I am in an area that has cranky things with horns or tusks, but most areas do not have those critters. My usual light rifle is a 30-06. It will do the job for most things, but it is light for eland.
 
I think the 338 WM is the perfect cartridge for one-gun African plains game if eland is on the wish list. Normally I carry a 375 (or larger) when I am in an area that has cranky things with horns or tusks, but most areas do not have those critters. My usual light rifle is a 30-06. It will do the job for most things, but it is light for eland.

For plains game I carry a .308 and a .375H&H. For the same reasons you mentioned above. In DG country like the Zambezi or the Kilombero I carry a .375 H&H and a heavy of some sort, usually a .470.
 
I may do a plains hunt in Texas at some point. So what are some good bullets for the 338? I’ve found pretty good deals on Federal Fusion 225gr and Speer Grand Slam 250’s ($16/50) I realize it’s going to be dependent on my rifle. But I’ve not shot Fusions or Grand Slams before. Most of my reloading bullets are Sierra and a couple Hornady.
 
Both are good bullets for the money. For really tough, big critters I really like 225 Gr Barnes TTSX or a 250 Gr Nosler Accobond.

Honestly at the velocity you’ll get with 250 Gr bullet a Sierra Boat Tail will act like a premium bullet. They don’t blow up, they retain weight, and they’re very slippery and accurate.
 
May
Both are good bullets for the money. For really tough, big critters I really like 225 Gr Barnes TTSX or a 250 Gr Nosler Accobond.

Honestly at the velocity you’ll get with 250 Gr bullet a Sierra Boat Tail will act like a premium bullet. They don’t blow up, they retain weight, and they’re very slippery and accurate.
Maybe I’ll buy all 3 and give them a go. The Nosler and Barnes are pretty expensive. And I won’t be hunting really big, tough critters any time in the next few years, if ever depending on what we’re talking about. And I do love my Sierra’s.
 
Honestly at the velocity you’ll get with 250 Gr bullet a Sierra Boat Tail will act like a premium bullet. They don’t blow up, they retain weight, and they’re very slippery and accurate.

I'd agree with this - if you're going to shoot a relatively slow load like the 250gr out of a .338WM, the Sierra GK is a respectable bullet. I've seen FAR more failures from ABLRs than from GKs.
 
I may do a plains hunt in Texas at some point. So what are some good bullets for the 338? I’ve found pretty good deals on Federal Fusion 225gr and Speer Grand Slam 250’s ($16/50) I realize it’s going to be dependent on my rifle. But I’ve not shot Fusions or Grand Slams before. Most of my reloading bullets are Sierra and a couple Hornady.
The speer were great for deer and cheap. The accubond was nice to 338 bullets seam to run turf compared to say some 358s.

Texas hunt sounds fun I so under how much they run.
 
May

Maybe I’ll buy all 3 and give them a go. The Nosler and Barnes are pretty expensive. And I won’t be hunting really big, tough critters any time in the next few years, if ever depending on what we’re talking about. And I do love my Sierra’s.
check sps they may have some noslers cheaper.
 
Not sure what happened but half the post was lost when posted; let's try again??

I may do a plains hunt in Texas at some point. So what are some good bullets for the 338? I’ve found pretty good deals on Federal Fusion 225gr and Speer Grand Slam 250’s ($16/50) I realize it’s going to be dependent on my rifle. But I’ve not shot Fusions or Grand Slams before. Most of my reloading bullets are Sierra and a couple Hornady.


Depending upon the critter. Eland, I prefer Swift A Frame for maximum weight retention and penetration: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010557357

A bit pricey but they work. Got complete passthrough broadside on this eland, taking top of heart with it with 375 h&h, using an A Frame.


The eland ran but I managed a snap shot as he disappeared into the brush. I knew if I hit him at all it was way left. The 300 gr. A Frame entered (white scar) just behind last rib and lodged just behind front shoulder (knot barely visible in pic.) Calculated penetration was 30”. Recovered that bullet which retained 97-98% of original weight.

35636138036_20e804c737_n.jpg 35675598195_b368e5e9b1_n.jpg

Next time freezer is MT, plan to hunt an eland cow with the .338 and will use either a 250 gr. A Frame https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010557357 or might try the new 265 gr. Nosler Long Range Accubond https://shop.nosler.com/accubond-lr-338-caliber-265-grain-bullet-100ct.html


For everything OTE (other than eland) the 210 gr. Nosler partition @ 2900+ works very well.

36147648412_35f4ae55f0_m.jpg 35704960535_697d854141_m.jpg 36414017471_de22231cbe_m.jpg

Regards,

hps
 
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I may do a plains hunt in Texas at some point. So what are some good bullets for the 338? I’ve found pretty good deals on Federal Fusion 225gr and Speer Grand Slam 250’s ($16/50) I realize it’s going to be dependent on my rifle. But I’ve not shot Fusions or Grand Slams before. Most of my reloading bullets are Sierra and a couple Hornady.

Give a hard look at the 210 gr. Partition.

Should be able to duplicate 165 gr. 30-06 ballistic performance, and the terminal performance is outstanding.

Punches big holes - well above its weight.




GR
 
I sent him some brass today, so he can do some loads when he gets some dies, bullets, powder. I will we if I have some load data here, I may be at my dads tho.
 
Not quite "apples to apples", but when comparing the recoil of the .30-06 Springfield from a rifle weighing eight pounds with a rifle chambered in .338 Winchester Magnum, weighing eight and a half pounds, Chuck Hawk's "Rifle Recoil Table" reported the following data:

.30-06 (180 grain bullet with MV @ 2700 fps) : Recoil Energy 20.3; Recoil Velocity 12.8
.338 Magnum (200 grain bullet with MV @ 2950): Recoil Energy 32.8; Recoil Velocity 15.8

No free lunches when it comes to ballistics and physics in terms of recoil. More and better performance has a price. Each individual will have to decide if the price is worth paying. The size and danger posed by the game, the range in terms of distance, how much of a practical advantage does the "greater" cartridge have over the "lesser" cartridge and the experience of the shooter are all relevant and sometimes subjective factors.
 
Not sure what happened but half the post was lost when posted; let's try again??




Depending upon the critter. Eland, I prefer Swift A Frame for maximum weight retention and penetration: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010557357

A bit pricey but they work. Got complete passthrough broadside on this eland, taking top of heart with it with 375 h&h, using an A Frame.


The eland ran but I managed a snap shot as he disappeared into the brush. I knew if I hit him at all it was way left. The 300 gr. A Frame entered (white scar) just behind last rib and lodged just behind front shoulder (knot barely visible in pic.) Calculated penetration was 30”. Recovered that bullet which retained 97-98% of original weight.

View attachment 870197View attachment 870198

Next time freezer is MT, plan to hunt an eland cow with the .338 and will use either a 250 gr. A Frame https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010557357 or might try the new 265 gr. Nosler Long Range Accubond https://shop.nosler.com/accubond-lr-338-caliber-265-grain-bullet-100ct.html


For everything OTE (other than eland) the 210 gr. Nosler partition @ 2900+ works very well.

View attachment 870199View attachment 870200View attachment 870201

Regards,

hps

The Swift A frame is one of the best DG expanding bullets in the business. They just do what they are supposed to do with no fuss. Of course they are not very “flighty” as that is not what they are designed to do.
 
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