380 for Self Defense?

There is a very small chance of being killed by a black bear. According to google there have only been 25 people killed by black bears in the last 20 years. That said, if I operated in black bear country I would want more than a 380, quite a bit more in fact with 357 being a minimum in my case because I wouldn't want to chance being one of those one and a quarter people done in by a black bear each year. A 380 is fine for my wild critters of which the largest are coyotes.

I've only encountered one black bear and at quite a distance in the mountains and it ran off like a scared jackrabbit.

Trey Veston said:

Exactly my thoughts!!

Out here in Idaho, every black bear I've come across has been keen on getting as far away as possible from me and my dog post haste. And, the black bears out here are average under 200lbs. I would rather take one on mano-a-bearo with my Ontario Rat 5 fixed blade knife than a .380. But then again, I'm 6'2 and 290lbs and outweigh 90% of the bears around here anyways.

If one is even considering using an LCP in .380 for bear defense, then one likely isn't really all that concerned about bears in the first place.

Heck, I roamed the Idaho woods on horseback for years as a kid and teenager with nothing but a Ruger Single-Six .22 for protection and survival. 35+ years later I'm still here to tell the stories.

Of course, now, there are those dang Canadian wolf hybrids they released a bit ago that are taking over. Had one case my campsite last year. Now I carry a 10mm Glock or an AR in .450 Bushmaster to feel better when out in the woods.

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I live in Idaho too, and the only bears I'd worry about are over around Yellowstone where they're not afraid of people. Every bear I've seen elsewhere in the state can't get away from you fast enough once they're aware of you.

A black bear will just run away from humans anyway.

If someone did something stupid to a cub and forced a momma bear to attack them... IMHO they would probably get pretty much what they deserved after they maybe missed one shot, had one hit ineffectively, and then bad things would start happening to them.

380 LCP is for when one can do no better, work attire, "better than nothing" - not preferred.

OP ponders using minimal (for human attacker) armament to defend against a bear.

An LCP sure is easy to tote, I bought a couple boxes of BB hardcast but I don’t load it up in my LCP.

this past summer I found what looked like bear poo on the side of the dirt road in front of my house. Because of this I’ve diligently been carrying my Shield9 on my walks.

I don’t believe the difference between the two calibers is that great but a bigger gun feels more comforting.

huntsman said:

An LCP sure is easy to tote, I bought a couple boxes of BB hardcast but I don’t load it up in my LCP.

this past summer I found what looked like bear poo on the side of the dirt road in front of my house. Because of this I’ve diligently been carrying my Shield9 on my walks.

I don’t believe the difference between the two calibers is that great but a bigger gun feels more comforting.

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I carry an lcp daily and operate as if I'm unarmed.
I'm gonna hand my billfold to a mugger, and I'm gonna turn back on a trail occupied by a mama bear.
I have been known to pocket my lcp on an archery hunt. I feel a whole lot better with it than without it.

Catpop said:

View attachment 879175 I went out this am and ran a few through my LCP offhand. This is 10 yards. Maybe 3 of 5 in kill zone!View attachment 879176 However at 15 yards I only gave him a toothache!!!!!!
View attachment 879177Now the LC9 on the other hand had 4 maybe 5 in the kill zone at 10 yards!View attachment 879178 And again 4 of 5 in the kill zone

I think these are 9” paper plates
No 20 yd test proved capable of Self defense
Shooting PPU 94 gr 380
And WWC 1989 115 gr 9mm

This proves to me that my LCP is a 10 yard gun and my LC9 is a I5 yard gun.
But it still doesn’t answer my original question, although much has been learned by me in this thread!
Thanks to all!!!!

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While I may be overconfident in my lcp, I'm glad you posted this as proof that a .380 will indeed penetrate a paper plate....contrary to popular belief.
I do like the cross-eyed bear target. Well done!

huntsman said:

this past summer I found what looked like bear poo on the side of the dirt road in front of my house. Because of this I’ve diligently been carrying my Shield9 on my walks.

I don’t believe the difference between the two calibers is that great but a bigger gun feels more comforting.

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The difference is huge. Out of a Sig P365, Lehigh Xtreme Penetrators were 200 fps faster with a 25 grain heavier bullet, and Buffalo Bore hard cast +P Outdoorsman averaged 50 fps faster with a 47 grain heavier bullet. The penetration was substantially better with both 9mm rounds running the same tests as above. I carried the 365 and Lehighs during this past archery season.

It depends on the bear.

An LCP would work fine on a Koala.

.380 is a GREAT bear defense round. Not as good as 22lr, but still great.

Remember, you don't have to outrun the bear, just the friend or relative you disabled with a shot from the LCP...

It sounds like you have a 9mm available, I think it's a no brainer to use that over the LCP. Flat note hardcast out of a 9mm is no joke, you say you can shoot the gun more accurately and in a good holster on your belt it won't be any more obtrusive to carry around all day. Just get a OWB rig that sits nice and close to your body and has good retention - it'll be out of the way and you can draw it faster than you can pull an LCP out of a pocket.

DocRock said:

.380 is a GREAT bear defense round. Not as good as 22lr, but still great.

Remember, you don't have to outrun the bear, just the friend or relative you disabled with a shot from the LCP...

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note to self; don't go into the woods with anybody named DocRock.

A .380 is a terrible bear defense gun.
You might consider wearing little bells in order to avoid surprising any bears.
Also, when in bear country one should be able to tell brown bear droppings from that of black bears.
The brown bear crap has little bells in it.

Catpop said:

I’m in total agreement with opinion that a wide flat nose boolit (mecaft?) will do the most tissue damage. I use these in both my 357 and 44 mags. But here I’m thinking penetration of the skull vs tissue damage is more important since he will be coming at me head first not side to.
But since I don’t reload 380, I think my only available option may be a RN FMJ.

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The Winchester White Box FMJ are Flat Nose. Ive seen some reports that LA Police (Not sure if it was PD or Sheriff) are only authorized to carry this in their backup .380 because JHP tends to have inadequate penetration and other FMJ the tested tended to lose it's jacket when shot through a windshield. I believe this may have predated the latest Hyper Rounds. I have no idea why the protocol would include auto glass for a backup weapon. Just hearsay Ive read.

MedWheeler said:

Seriously..? A .380-for-defense thread and a bear thread at once?

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.

Yeah, these are great times. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Did somebody say Bare Thread.... I seem to remember doing that during a High School Football Game once....

Going to bear country, just get or borrow a .357. I'd say the best thing you could do with that .380 is use it as a deposit or trade for that .357.

And remember woods SA is just as important as SA in the Urban Jungle. Situational awareness is better protection than any pistol.

Under a Black Bear and given a choice between a 3" Pocket Knife and an LCP loaded with WWB FMJ FN I will take the LCP. Of course given a choice I would prefer a .454 Casull.

Trey Veston said:

Exactly my thoughts!!

Out here in Idaho, every black bear I've come across has been keen on getting as far away as possible from me and my dog post haste. And, the black bears out here are average under 200lbs. I would rather take one on mano-a-bearo with my Ontario Rat 5 fixed blade knife than a .380. But then again, I'm 6'2 and 290lbs and outweigh 90% of the bears around here anyways.

If one is even considering using an LCP in .380 for bear defense, then one likely isn't really all that concerned about bears in the first place.

Heck, I roamed the Idaho woods on horseback for years as a kid and teenager with nothing but a Ruger Single-Six .22 for protection and survival. 35+ years later I'm still here to tell the stories.

Of course, now, there are those dang Canadian wolf hybrids they released a bit ago that are taking over. Had one case my campsite last year. Now I carry a 10mm Glock or an AR in .450 Bushmaster to feel better when out in the woods.

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Just curious, what do you mean "They released them a few years ago". Who is they? Are you talking about people that owned them and decided that they are not wanted and released them? Hate the fact that someone would take such a beautiful wild animal and try and domesticate one. I am not from your area, so do not fully understand what you are talking about. Do you see many of these Hybrids? They Game Managment released the Red Wolf in our area and seem to be doing well. But it is a natural breed of wolf.

Why would you try such a stunt when there are so many better options?

Jeb Stuart said:

Just curious, what do you mean "They released them a few years ago". Who is they? Are you talking about people that owned them and decided that they are not wanted and released them? Hate the fact that someone would take such a beautiful wild animal and try and domesticate one. I am not from your area, so do not fully understand what you are talking about. Do you see many of these Hybrids? They Game Managment released the Red Wolf in our area and seem to be doing well. But it is a natural breed of wolf.

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https://idrange.org/range-stories/north-idaho/wolf-reintroduction-in-idaho/

Wolves were re-introduced into Idaho in 1995, but they weren't the same as the ones that used to be here; they were a Canadian Gray wolf, which is a larger species. The term "hybrid" was incorrect. Unless they bred with some remaining native Idaho wolves.

Of course, some claim that the wolves are now breeding with coyotes and producing a true hybrid. A friend of mine claims to have shot one on her property that was going after her rabbits. I saw the picture of it. The Fish and Game guy showed up and said that it was indeed a coyote-wolf hybrid. They officially, of course, deny any hybridization has occurred.

In the highly unlikely event of a black bear charging you at 36 ft/second I think it's highly unlikely you'd stop it with your .380 but it's possible and definitely better than unarmed. Chances are if you make a lot of noise the black bear will move on. We have them in our yard and porch every year and they've never been aggressive, but we haven't had a mama bear with cubs either.

Armored farmer said:

I carry an lcp daily and operate as if I'm unarmed.
I'm gonna hand my billfold to a mugger, and I'm gonna turn back on a trail occupied by a mama bear.
I have been known to pocket my lcp on an archery hunt. I feel a whole lot better with it than without it.

While I may be overconfident in my lcp, I'm glad you posted this as proof that a .380 will indeed penetrate a paper plate....contrary to popular belief.
I do like the cross-eyed bear target. Well done!

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I have come across Black bears many times when hunting the area I live. And always, they bolt like a cockroach when the lights come on. And a 380 shot in the air would most likely send them into the next county. I totally agree with you on the LCP or other small 380. I carry one daily like I would my own wallet and feel safe, and I am very competent with the firearm. Have really reached the point that I could careless what the internet Pro's have to say. And my gosh, I have shot the darn things enough in 10 years to know what they can and cannot do. Yes, I also carry a revolver and a small Micro 9mm depending on what day it is. I choose these guns because I like shooting them often. Do not need or want high a high capacity Micro 9, do not care for any light trigger, and only carry DAO and I never ride a reset on any gun. All of which will drive the average internet user nuts. Lol,
And I feel like the chances of being actually attacked by a Bear where I live to be much more likely than any Miami FBI style shootout where I need a high capacity, gun with multiple magazines and daily IDPA training.(which means, Bears do not concern me.)
But each to his own.