Help me figure out this 9mm/Kel-Tec Sub2000 conundrum ....

Status
Not open for further replies.
WVGunman

WVGunman

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Messages
380
I was at the range just yesterday, sighting in a red dot sight on my KTS2k, when something strange happened. I had been merrily blasting away, when towards the end of a magazine (15-rounder Glock 19 mag) I had a sort-of hang fire. What happened was that I pulled the trigger, there was a click of the striker falling, and thn an identifiable gap before the round went off. This was a very short gap, less than a second probably, but normally the striker falling is so close to the round going off that it cannot be heard. This happened a total of three times, among the last 5 rounds in the magazine. I did not shoot any more after that.
I checked the gun, but found nothing amiss. The ammo was relatively new Winchester steel-cased cheap stuff, but it had never been a problem. (Though just a few rounds prior to this I had the first ever jams with the KTS2k, with a couple of FTEs)

I have a theory about what caused this. The steel cased ammo has been developing some kind of white corrosion on the cases. The corrosion is thick enough to jam them in the magazine when loaded, no mattter which gun I'm shooting. I didn't want to clean every single round, so I tried giving the insides of the magazines a small shot of WD-40 right before using them. (Before loading the rounds in) This cured the problem. However, I realized that the magazines I had been using yesterday, unlike in the past, had been loaded and allowed to sit for a whole day. Is it possible these rounds were somehow infiltrated and contaminated by the WD-40? Would that cause a weird hang-fire issue? If the WD-40 IS the cause, what else can I do about this strange corrosion, other than clean every single round manually (and with what)? The corrosion has not appeared on anything else where the ammo is stored, even other stuff made out of steel.
 
Last edited:
Corrosion on a case per se will NOT cause a hang fire.

Smokeless powders have an optimum pressure at which they burn. If you throw some on an open fire it will burn fast but will not cause an explosion since it's not under pressure. If you have a cartridge with too light a powder charge or in which the powder is defective like with water damage, it takes a little longer than usual for the pressure to build up to the point of making the powder burn fast enough to cause the bullet to be expelled down the barrel at high velocity. What is experienced is a hang fire. An even lower pressure caused by the aforementioned factors will cause a squib where the bullet is expelled from the cartridge but doesn't exit the barrel.

So, corrosion on the case will not cause a hang fire but whatever caused the corrosion (probably water damage) also contaminated the powder and is the cause of your hang fire.
 
As a guy who spent a career on the streets of south Florida (hot, humid, salty...) in law enforcement... I was forced to learn to keep my ammo clean and dry. We learned not to spray our ammo with Wd40 (or anything else)... but a tiny amount on a clean cloth followed by a thorough polishing off with a dry cloth for each round to keep it in good functioning condition was the only way to go.

Towards the end of my career when working as a unit commander, I did find more than one duty sidearm being carried by one of my crew that clearly had compromised ammo. Some folks need to be forced to do the right thing...

Lastly, using cheap steel cased ammo is a very bad idea - unless you have no other choice...
 
Can you post pics of the corrosion? I use that Winchester Forged steel case as my Steel Challenge competition ammo, and haven't had any problems with it.

I'm guessing that the WD40 is your issue.
I'm also guessing that the corrosion isn't actually corrosion. Is it that white powdery stuff?
 
Mauser lover said:
Can you post pics of the corrosion? I use that Winchester Forged steel case as my Steel Challenge competition ammo, and haven't had any problems with it.

I'm guessing that the WD40 is your issue.
I'm also guessing that the corrosion isn't actually corrosion. Is it that white powdery stuff?
Click to expand...

See below. This picture actually shows it a lot better than I thought it would. I polished off the middle round to make the contrast more obvious. I don't think I would call this stuff "powdery." It's actually quite thin, but it makes the cases much stickier, so they will not consistently slide past each other and off the feed lips the way they should. Since this stuff appeared, I have put one of those moisture-collecting devices in my ammo drawer. I figure it can't hurt, but all the steel cased rounds still have this junk on them. This area where I keep ammo has the most stable climate control in my whole apartment. bullets with corrosion.jpg
 
I think you have a firing pin issue. You’d be amazed how crappy ammo can be and still shoot. I’ve shot 7.62x25 surplus ammo that was calcified(?) like a stalactite.
 
I have two guesses.
1) The WD40 leeched around the primers, partially fouling them.
2) and I think more likely, between the WD40, corrosion, fouling, often generally stickier brass cases and perhaps clearance, they weren't seating as firmly as when you started. So the firing pin wasted energy shoving them forward a little bit, creating a weaker strike.
 
I don't think that white stuff is corrosion. I tried out a box of that Win Ammo and it had the same white coating.

I had the same sticking in magazine while loading them as you did, but once settled down they all functioned properly in my P95.
 
A third vote for WD-40 being the culprit. I love WD-40 for it’s many uses but it does not mix with ammunition. I had a few hangfires and duds thanks to an overzealous application of the stuff and learned my lesson. Give your Sub2000 a good cleaning and apply gun oil sparingly. Use fresh ammunition and your problems should clear up.
 
WD. Or some inert material in the powder drop. In 50 years of shooting I've had my share of FTFs. With that primers either pop or don't pop. With all things correct you get bang. But there is always the exception to the rule.
 
These days most use automatics but I started out carrying a standard revolver my first seven years or so... Here's the simple test I used to tell whether my ammo needed that careful cleaning with a dry cloth. With the muzzle down and the cylinder open I'd use the extractor to raise the rounds up as high as they'd go then release it and watch to see that each round dropped properly back into the cylinder without hanging or hesitation. The slightest sign that the ammo was sticking and not dropping freely back into place meant I had some maintenance to do...

I still have that old heavy barrel model 10 S&W that I was issued the last week of 1973. I was allowed to purchase it from my Department the day I retired out.... and it's still in perfect order - and so is the ammo (if you pay attention to it...) even down here in paradise... Any time I pick it up (only once or twice a year now... ) that ammo check is the first item on the agenda.
 
BlueHeelerFl said:
I don't think that white stuff is corrosion. I tried out a box of that Win Ammo and it had the same white coating.

I had the same sticking in magazine while loading them as you did, but once settled down they all functioned properly in my P95.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "settled down"? I use a Ruger P-89 (my "post-apocalypse gun :)) and the magazines are virtually identical, so this would be very relevant to me. Did you tap the mag? Just keep shooting?
 
I have had hang fires from primers that were not stored properly and from rounds that were not stored properly.
Will never forget the box of .410 shells in the shed out back as a kid that the oil can rusted and started leaking on. “Click”.........ffffooottt, and stuff dribbles out the end of the barrel....
 
Yeah basically WD40 can be lumped in with Frog Lube et cetera as something that really shouldn’t come in contact with guns or ammo.

It’s actually a good field expedient way of preventing rust in some limited circumstances, but you’ve got to get it off before it turns to varnish. I have used it for years to rinse down black powder revolvers after shooting in case I’m not able to get them into a bath quickly enough, and I wouldn’t hesitate to use it to hose down a gun that had been dropped in the ocean as a first step towards getting it clean dry and oiled. But that’s about it when it comes to guns.
 
WVGunman said:
What do you mean by "settled down"? I use a Ruger P-89 (my "post-apocalypse gun :)) and the magazines are virtually identical, so this would be very relevant to me. Did you tap the mag? Just keep shooting?
Click to expand...

When I would push down on the rounds a basic mag loader they would stick/clump together. If I removed the mag loader the follower would not push the rounds back up to the top of the mag. I initially thought that the mag spring had failed somehow.

If I tapped the mag the rounds would listen and move to the top like normal.

This only happened while loading the mags. When firing everything functioned properly.

I've used those mags with different ammo since and have never seen this problem again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
Defective Ammo: Winchester 9mm JHP "Personal Protection"
2
Replies
44
Views
4K
outerlimit
O
C
  • Locked
Kel Tec Sub2000 - Last Round Failures to Eject
Replies
6
Views
816
Captains1911
C
C
  • Locked
Help with safe moisture.
Replies
2
Views
365
Cpt_Impossible
C
S
  • Locked
22 lr ammo not recommended
2 3
Replies
61
Views
5K
Sheldon
S
M
  • Locked
Kel Tec P17
Replies
13
Views
5K
12Bravo20
12Bravo20
Back
Top