I'm not one to rant but here I go....

TomJ said:

The screw doesn't bother me. Charging over $3600 for a $2192 gun if you finance it does.

Click to expand...

Looks like a $1200 gun that I don't want, and it has nothing to do with the screw.

When it comes to working on guns I’m not perfect. Maybe I’m too sleepy or just plain unfocused sometimes. To me it helps if screws are as idiot proof as possible. Because sometimes I’m an idiot.

‘Even though I have the best screwdrivers made for guns, complete Sets of Brownells, I still prefer the following.

For me, I rank the screws in this order from best to worst:

Allen/Torx

Phillips

Flat

I hate flatheads with a passion, on anything. They strip the heads the easiest and the driver slips the easiest, thus tearing up what you are working on.

Give me anything but a f-head.

I had a cz75B for several years. It must have had Phillips head screws on the grip but I don't think I ever even noticed.

tark said:

Some people would bitch if you hung them with a new rope.

Click to expand...

ain’t that the truth!

JDR said:

I am uf the opinion that a base CZ 75B or SA with some CGW or CZ Custom work done to it is all I personally need, but YMMV and it’s all good!

Click to expand...

The Bull Shadow is a CZC gun.. its not off the shelf

I'm sorry if this was already mentioned, but let me start by saying I'm not a CZ fan, so I never thought their guns would cost upward of $2K, so I had to look. On their web site, CZ lists this gun for only $1650 direct.

Why would anyone pay $2200, much less and additional $1400 in interest to some scumbucket company is beyond me.

I just checked my gunsmith screwdriver set that has just about every Tool and driver size known to man and I found a bunch of Phillips heads in it.

<sigh> I've always hated the Phillips-head screw ...

Waveski said:

For $2,192 I can get 4 surplus Browning High Powers .
And - no billboard on the slide.

As long as we're getting picky , I do not care for the round edged molded-in look of the inscriptions on the CZ slides. Has a plastic look about it.

Click to expand...

Yep. Every time I see a CZ, I assume it's an Air Soft copy of a real gun due to the inscription style.

So happens I own a Walther P99 ... I consider it to be a very good shooter , and it is ergonomically excellent , but I admit that it ain't too pretty ; in fact I doubt that the airsoft version is worse than the real thing.

rayatphonix said:

Seems an odd thing to worry about. I know I’ve got access to a Phillips head screw driver pretty much everywhere. Torx? Not so much. I guess that’s why I own a couple of CZs.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd be far more upset with the Snagg-O-Matic optic sight. I've seen this before, they take a gorgeous auto-loader, perfect, in every other way, and then jack the optic sight on the front.

Does ANYBODY like those high-profile, snaggy, POS F/O sights?

Because the non-proprietary hardware type phillips head screw is more attractive than something you would have to get special tooling for, to me.

I actually have a FO sight that CGW added to a Phantom for me. I’ve not snagged it once, but it’s not gun I carry, except to the range. The visibility is great in daylight; so so in o5her lighting situations.

I have an utterly genius and novel idea - don’t buy it.
Please don’t ask me where this kind of intellect comes from, it is a burden and a blessing.

It’s a competition gun from CZC not a standard CZ gun. They are meant to be beat up and win. The primary intent isn’t to be pretty.

There’s gobs of aftermarket parts for CZ competition guns. Find a replacement.

I have a small herd of CZ's. Screw heads I've never even noticed on these exceptional guns. "Yeah, that C75b is super accurate and reliable. Nice finish and points outstandingly, but those screw heads! I'm buying a Glock."

Dibbs said:

Yeah, I'd be far more upset with the Snagg-O-Matic optic sight. I've seen this before, they take a gorgeous auto-loader, perfect, in every other way, and then jack the optic sight on the front.

Does ANYBODY like those high-profile, snaggy, POS F/O sights?

Because the non-proprietary hardware type phillips head screw is more attractive than something you would have to get special tooling for, to me.

Click to expand...

I put one of those Snagg-O-Matic sights on all my competition revolvers. Love fiber optic front sights!

As for the fastener types you guys need to branch out more. It is not that hard to get drivers for any and all of these fasteners and they are cheap enough to have multiple sets in you gun room, range bag etc. They all have there uses.

Electricmo said:

I just checked my gunsmith screwdriver set that has just about every Tool and driver size known to man and I found a bunch of Phillips heads in it.

Click to expand...

I've got a standard set of Magnatips from Brownells. It's got everything; flats, Phillips, Torx, hex. (Flats are hollow ground, too.) Might do a lot of good if some of the folks around here to forgo the next range toy and drop $50 - $100 on a good set of screwdrivers.

You can change the grip screws on a CZ

Can you change the pig nose on a Glock?

This cost far less than $2200 but the screws were a couple bucks extra.

I like CZ's, and their phillips heads have been on them for as long as I remember. Its always been once of those things people point out. The way I see it, slotted screws are only standard, because that how they've always done things. These are an Iron curtain design, in a system that saw very little foreign competition, so when time comes to put a screw on, with no reference saying "NO! it has to be fillister only!" they went with whats most common.

The way we should be looking at it, very few people keep the right size flat blade screw drivers for working on pistols. Phillips are far more forgiving of the wrong size, and the average gun owner has an appropriate driver for that. So its mechanically an advantage. In addition, Phillips screws are supposed to be torque limiting, and thats a very good thing in this application.

Given that theres no GOOD reason to use a slotted, and tool disadvantages to Hex or Torx, what problem is there? CZ considered the practical advantage over cosmetics. Given how nice they make them, its easy to forget these are fighting guns designed under the Soviet empire, with plans for WW3 a legitimate concern.

Lastly, once nice thing to, a reverse drill bit will get a galled, or crossthreaded, or rusted phillips head out. It will not get a slotted out without much more work.

Just one thing about the CZ 75...The CZ firm made these guns not for the Soviet bloc countries but for sale on the international market. They were not sold in the Soviet Bloc in any numbers until after the fall of the USSR. They were designed as a 9mm pistol from the ground up. The gun was a clean break from any Soviet designed guns. The guns were not adopted in Eastern Europe or Czechoslovakia until after the Velvet Revolution in 1985.

Because CZ took out no international patent on the pistol it has been one of the most widely copied guns in the world since it's introduction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_75

"The CZ-75 pistol was developed by the Koucky brothers, who worked at the state-owned arms factory Ceska Zbrojovka in the city of Uhersky Brod (Czechoslovakia, now Czech republic). This full-size semiautomatic pistol first appeared in the 1975, and the production began circa 1976. CZ-75 was obviously intended for the export market. The CZ-75 accumulated best features from many preceding designs. Resulting pistol was aesthetically attractive, comfortable to handle and shoot, quite accurate and reliable in operation. Made by CZ in various versions and modifications, CZ-75 was also widely copied and cloned. Most popular of CZ-75 copies are (or were) made by: IMI (Jericho-941, Israel), Tanfoglio (TZ-75, TZ-90, T-95, Italy), Sarsilmaz (M2000, Turkey), ITM (AT-88, Swiss), Sphinx (mod.2000, Swiss), Norinco (NZ-75, China), Springfield (P9, USA)."

https://modernfirearms.net/en/handguns/handguns-en/czech-republic-semi-automatic-pistols/cz-75-eng/

A bit more on why and how CZ produced a gun that was a break from the Soviet designs.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-cz75-gun-one-europes-best-guns-can-now-be-yours-61512

All I can think about is who cares? You planning on shooting the thing or staring at the grip screws?

bdickens said:

All I can think about is who cares? You planning on shooting the thing or staring at the grip screws?

Click to expand...

You gave me a good laugh! I thought the same thing. See Avatar. That's not all of them.

Snowdog said:

Yes, appearing straight from Home Depot. Perhaps that's a personal quark of mine but it bugs me and bugs me a lot! I don't need a hex or Torx screw but please at least make it a flat head. It's like sporting sandals while wearing a three piece suit. The irk-factor is much subdued when paired with a $140 Hi Point, but for something that can cost 20 times that? Like nails on a chalk board.

It nearly drives me to drink.

Click to expand...

Dang, Brother...if this is the worst thing going on in your world, you are truly blessed!

TomJ said:

The screw doesn't bother me. Charging over $3600 for a $2192 gun if you finance it does. If my math is right they're charging 36% interest?

Click to expand...

The total of $3600 is 64% more than the $2192 price. Whether you calculate it as an APR, call it interest, carrying charge, layaway charge, or whatever, that's a fool's choice, IMO.