Ben Cartwright SASS
Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 16
I am just learning about M1's here is my Quality Hardware (VG-F) box came through fine, no dents or tears. Seems to be in very nice shape, just a tad of cosmoline under the top handguard and in it.
Serial # 156XXXX
Quality Hardware under adjustable sight
....
I think the original Carbine design intent was a light rifle firing the .30 Winchester Self Loading cartridge with a loaded twenty round magazine and web sling matching the weight of a 1911A1 pistol with web pistol belt, leather holster, magazine pouch and three magazines loaded with seven rounds of. 45ACP. Five pounds approximate.
[Point 2 summarizes Infantry Board Report No. 985 on tests "with low caliber rifles and with the pistol and revolver with shoulder holster" finding these alternates inadequate and justifying the development of a special weapon.]OFFICE OF THE CHIEF OF INFANTRY
WASHINGTON
CI 474/9581-B
OO 474/3991 March 25, 1938
Subject: Weapons and Ammunition Carriers
To: The Chief of Ordnance
1. The number of team-operated weapons (.50 Caliber Machine Guns, 60mm Mortars, 81mm Mortars, 37mm Antitank Guns) in the proposed Infantry regiment has increased to the point were approximately one-sixth of the combat personnel of the regiment will be engaged in carrying ammunition. The question of armament of these ammunition carriers becomes one of great importance. A serious situation will be created if these men are bought into the close-range zone without an effective weapon for close combat. At the present time the only practical weapon available for the purpose is the pistol ....
This led eventually to the development of the Carbine Caliber .30 M13. The maximum load that a man can carry and retain the necessary mobility to perform duties as an ammunition carrier, is about 45 pounds. His personal equipment (gas mask, mess gear, steel helmet, shovel, toilet articles), which is always present on the soldier, irrespective of his assignment, weighs approximately 15 pounds. This leaves about 30 pounds that can be utilized for ammunition load and personal weapon. The weight for the ammunition that he carries for the various weapons he will serve will average 25 pounds in the forward areas. Accordingly the total weight of the weapon with which he is armed and a limited amount of ammunition for that weapon cannot exceed five pounds in weight.
4. The Chief of Infantry considers that the type of weapon required for ammunition carriers is one fulfilling the following general characteristics;
a. Weight (Weapon and 20 rounds ammunition)--not to exceed five pounds.
b. Range--effective at 300 yards.
c. Magazine Fed.
d. Operation -- Automatic, desirable; semiautomatic essential.
e. Method of carrying -- Over shoulder with sling.
....
The histories vary based on the author and the time written and the source most used.I think the original Carbine design intent was a light rifle firing the .30 Winchester Self Loading cartridge
I'm not sure it's possible to build a M1 carbine as light in weight as a 1911 handgun. I think they got the carbine as light and compact as possible with the technology they had 80 years ago.
My 1911 pistol, leather USN holster, web pistol belt, two magazine pouch and three loaded 7 rd magazines weigh over five pounds.
It is possible to build a M1 carbine with skinny barrel band, original slim stock, L sight, web sling, and loaded 15 rd magazine slightly under six pounds.
It is also possible to build a M1 carbine with wide barrel band with bayonet lug, fat M2 stock, adjustable sights, and start pushing it toward seven pounds.
Those Blitzkreiging Jerries were prone to dat just dropping in unannounced, no manners at all.I daresay it’s easier to carry a 6-7 pound M1 carbine slung over your shoulder (and probably often set down nearby against a tree, or next to you on the truck seat) compared to a full 1911 rig weighing down your belt all day. And the carbine would be a lot more effective in a fight if the Jerries suddenly show up at your motor pool, field kitchen, etc.
Thankfully, they weren't full auto from the start, in that case they rarely would have made it to civilian hands.General Overview of the History of the U.S. Carbines, Caliber .30
"Accordingly, on October 1, 1940 the Ordnance Department published a circular which was in effect an appeal to known gun manufacturers and inventors to submit a gun with the following general characteristics:"
- Weight not to exceed 5 pounds
- Range effective up to 300 yards, semi-automatic fire essential, full automatic fire desirable
- To be carried by sling or some comparable device
35W
- Chambered for a cartridge of caliber .30 of the Winchester self-loading type with a case
similar to that of the commercial Winchester self-loading cartridge, caliber .32
With that capability, Ive never understood how the ATF ever allowed them to be left out of the NFA. Same goes for things like the HK 90 series guns.Thankfully, they weren't full auto from the start, in that case they rarely would have made it to civilian hands.
Since they eventually developed a drop in full auto kit that could be added to any Carbine, while some were specifically marked M-2, and thus could never be anything but full auto in the ATF's minds, many were just regular M-1's with the kit, easy removed,
With that capability, Ive never understood how the ATF ever allowed them to be left out of the NFA. Same goes for things like the HK 90 series guns.
Yet they ban things they deemed "easily converted", like some of the open bolt guns, when things like the carbine and HK's are easily done, and with no, or very little modification.
Ahh, Land of the Free, and Home of the Brave...., as long as you follow their silly and arbitrary rules.
I think its a little late for that.SSSSHHHHHH don’t give them any idea dood.
I just have to say I am loving my carbine. I get IT now.
I added the customary (repro) stock mag pouch, sling and oiler and carry bag purchased from Word War Supply.
I am a bit concerned I may become a "M1 Carbine hoarder guy".
My Lee 100 grain 2 hole mold got delivered today so I am planning on breaking it in after dinner tomorrow night. Here is a pic of it with the canvas added.