Missing the Security-Six?

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According to Bill Ruger, they lost money on the Security Six.

I don't think that it would have had the run that they had if it lost money. Now that I'm older and have been through various interactions with business owners, maybe another mindset. He didn't make AS MUCH AS HE WANTED. He might have said he didn't make money because he would look like a follower, his ego wouldn't permit that.
Maybe he'll admit his reasons at a seance. ;)
 
According to Bill, the Security Six cost them more to make than the GP. He didn't go into detail like he did about the .44Mag carbine. Which was entirely milled from billet steel. We know why they cost too much to make. Not sure what reason he'd have to lie about it.
 
There are a number of reasons why the Six Series could have cost more. They include labor time to assemble, number of parts required, machining cost to name just a few. The GP was one of several different models all following a similar design: GP, SP, SRH, Alaskan. It had greater growth potential than the Sixes into the 10mm and .44 SP (there have been a few custom .44 SP Sixes created, though); whether Ruger was thinking that far ahead I do not know.
 
According to Bill Ruger, they lost money on the Security Six.
Ive heard this same thing as well, which sounds rediculous.....because they made millions of them, sold to LE/Govt as well as export contracts. They were also engineered for economics in the manufacturing process (when compared to a colt or a smith) cast parts vs forged, as well as moving parts that were made to be "dropped in" vs the hand fitting that was required for other Makers revolvers.
BUT all the R&D that went into the Six models morphed into other Ruger models that did make them money. The Security Six paved the smooth road for the success of every Ruger DA revolver that came after it..... and Im willing to bet that 90% of every Ruger Security Six that was ever made is still in working order today.
 
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According to Bill Ruger, they lost money on the Security Six.
Yes, he's quoted as saying he never made a dime off the sale of the Security-Sixes. No one really foresaw the massive migration of law enforcement away from the revolver, which was driven in large part by the Miami/Dade massacre, in which bank robbers used modern weapons and military protection to kill a number of law enforcement on April 11, 1986, between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers. During the firefight, two FBI Special Agents were killed, and five other agents wounded. The two robbers, William Russell Matix and Michael Lee Platt, were also killed. Subsequent studies convinced law enforcement planners, both federal and local, to move from revolvers to modern high-capacity 9mm and .40 pistols. A friend of mine was a federal agent and he told me how disappointed his bosses were with the .40-caliber autos, especially when a middle-aged woman took a round to the chest and continued to threaten two agents. She later recovered and the faith his federal bosses had put in the .40 was shattered. They subsequently went to the 9mm.

Anyway, the Miami incident took all the shine from the .357 mag, especially when one of the robbers counted the rounds one of the agents was firing. When the agent paused to reload, one of the robbers rushed him and killed him in the act. Perhaps it was in the wake of this incident that Ruger made that statement.

I don't think that it would have had the run that they had if it lost money. Now that I'm older and have been through various interactions with business owners, maybe another mindset. He didn't make AS MUCH AS HE WANTED. He might have said he didn't make money because he would look like a follower, his ego wouldn't permit that. Maybe he'll admit his reasons at a seance. ;)
I can't imagine why anyone would carry a GP100 when they had a Security-Six. The GP100 has a much more forward balance. I suspect I'd get used to it, but it have to put a bag over it when I shot it. It's so blocky looking. People say, Oh, the lockup is so much better on the GP100! Yeah, and my Security-Six has been shooting loose now for decades. I use rubber bands and Scotch tape to keep it together! Actually, I've yet to see any lock-up problems with a Security-Six. Skeeter Skelton said he knew of three Security-Sixes that each had more than 30,000 hot magnum rounds through them, and each was still going strong

Keep the Security-Six
 
During the run of the Security Six, soft automation machining processes were not what they are today. The investment into automated machining (which Ruger is and was really really into), was considerably more money, and the amortization of those expenses would most likely be more or a contribution to the overall profitability of the line. That gripframe portion of the receiver would have added time to production, as it would have been another (large) hand finished area.

I know where there's a 3" PSS, stainless... with U.S. and USN markings.... and I'm really, really tempted, as it looks "carried much, shot little".
 
Miami/Dade occurred after the Security Six was out of production so it would have had an effect on potential law enforcement use of the GP100. I think if Ruger lost money it was because Ruger priced them much lower than S&W revolvers, probably in order to break into Smith's monopoly with law enforcement. The fact is that the revolver era was drawing to a close brought about by the Smith 3rd gen semi-autos and ultimately the Glock.
I still remember the use of Ruger revolvers by Marine guards at the Willow Grove Naval Airstation north of Philly when I went to an airshow back in the 1980s.
 
IIRC, none of the Agents during the fight actually had Magnum rounds loaded during the fight, just .38 +Ps. I dunno if that was thanks to some stupid FBI policy or personnal choice, though.
They criticised the lack of overall firepower they all posessed during the incident. 2 agents actually had high capacity 9mm semi autos (Smith and Wesson 459) loaded with Winchester Silvertips. It was the (lack of) terminal performance of the 9mm that the FBI launched a campaign to find a better round (which wound up first being 10mm, then later the .40 S&W) One of the attackers was mortally wounded already with a shot to the upper thoracic area, and perforated lung.....however continued to fight for almost another minute....unfortunately thats when the killing occurred, in that minute after being mortally wounded by a well placed 9mm hit....
In my opinion, if these agents knew they were apprehending dangerous bank robbers that were heavily armed (which they did know) then they should have brought better weaponry themselves, which I know was at their disposal, but they chose not to. Today, the Miami Dade incident would have unfolded SO MUCH DIFFERENTLY it would make peoples heads spin.
 
Love the Six and have clocked 125 gr JHP's out of its 6" bbl at 1660 fps using H110 with no pressure signs. Regarding the full underlug of the newer gen pistols, I was not a fan at first, particularly the 4" bbl of my 686. What you're seeing here is after it has returned from the Performance Center with a new 7" bbl installed. Now I'm finding the full lug less bothersome aesthetically for some reason. However when it comes to all day walking in the woods with a sidearm, the Ruger is champ. It is balanced, comfortable and comparatively light. The 686 is more like holding a weight out in front (actually bought a bandolier holster for it for walking). But the upside is that it tames even the hottest .357's down to negligible recoil levels. Truth is, I love both of them!

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I'm sure the mass exodus away from the revolver in military/police use had something to do with it. You also have to remember, back then, everybody expected a Ruger to cost less than a S&W. So to get ANY of those contracts, Ruger had to be well below S&W. Today, it would be a different story, as they mostly cost about the same and they're not competing for police contracts.

I understand the balance issue when it comes to full lug GP's but not all were made that way. Though slightly heavier, the short lug guns balance and handle just fine. The 4" Match Champion is 38oz, which is only 2oz heavier than my 4" model 15.
 
Production of the GP100 overlapped with Six series revolvers ( one of my GP's is from 1986, my Service Six also from 86, although production ran into 88)
Does anyone recall the MSRP for the GP compared to a Six series in the mid/late 80's?
I can't imagine the production costs for the Six series would be significantly higher than GP, but, if the price was significantly higher for the "new" GP, that would obviously translate to higher profit.
Seems to me that would be a motivating factor for Ruger.
 
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Miami/Dade occurred after the Security Six was out of production so it would have had an effect on potential law enforcement use of the GP100. I think if Ruger lost money it was because Ruger priced them much lower than S&W revolvers, probably in order to break into Smith's monopoly with law enforcement. The fact is that the revolver era was drawing to a close brought about by the Smith 3rd gen semi-autos and ultimately the Glock. I still remember the use of Ruger revolvers by Marine guards at the Willow Grove Naval Airstation north of Philly when I went to an airshow back in the 1980s.
True, but the move to autos still hadn't hit as hard as it would. It didn't happen overnight, but once the big cities started switching over, the proverbial die was cast. The real lesson to be learned was to make your shots count (which could have been coupled with more shots per firearm), as many encounters were happening from 25-45 feet and shots still weren't connecting! My friend's agency wanted the stopping power of a .357 and the capacity of a 9mm hi-cap. They settled on the .40, and then when it didn't knock people off their feet, they abandoned it. Most of the guys in his office wanted 9mm Beretta, S&W or Sig Saur.

IIRC, none of the Agents during the fight actually had Magnum rounds loaded during the fight, just .38 +Ps. I dunno if that was thanks to some stupid FBI policy or personnal choice, though.
True, but I think some of the Miami cops were. Based on what I've heard, J. Edgar Hoover didn't like the .357 for some reason. During WW2, a friend of mine who was an FBI exec had, in earlier years, crawled under homes to plant listening devices. He was only authorized to carry .38Spc. When he died, his wife and kids only found a short-barreled Colt. He, like a surprising number of agents, really wasn't a gun nut.
 
Long, Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away I got hired for my first civilian law enforcement job. Chief of Police of a small Great Plains town. (Not as impressive as it may sound. I was the chief, but I was also the entire department.) I bought a 2.5" Ruger Speed 6 (fixed sight Security 6). I wish I still had it. The GP100 is a great gun but it just doesn't seem as refined or, for lack of a better term, elegant as the Security/Speed 6.
 
Got a Six recently. I like the balance of it and am really impressed by how well it handles 357s, but the grips are way too small for me and I have small hands. Need to find something that fills in that knuckle gap behind the trigger guard.
 
sgt127

I have related this story a number of times but it's still a pretty good one. Whether or not it's true sort of just adds to the legend of the Security Six.

Back at the time when the Security Six was being introduced, Bill Ruger assembled a group of "gun people": writers, industry insiders, and the like to a live demonstration of the new revolver. A Security Six was placed in a remote firing handgun rest to which a solid barrel blank had been threaded into the gun. Ruger then proceeded to fire 6 proof loads through the gun, had the gun rebarreled with a regular barrel, fired 6 more proof loads, and then had the revolver thoroughly checked out. There was no damage done to the gun, the second 6 rounds ended up on target, and everything was still well within the tolerances for a new revolver.

True story or not, I have owned enough Six Series revolvers to believe that the Security Six was that well designed and made to withstand that sort of test firing and go right on working; like it was another aspect of this gun being built like the proverbial tank that it was!

I just noticed this story. At the indoor range where I used to shoot they had a basket of "junk" on the counter. In that basket was a barrel from a Ruger "Six" revolver, sawed in half, length ways. Inside that barrel you could clearly see six? (anyway the barrel was plugged one end to the other) jacketed hollow point bullets. I asked about it one day and was told the fellow shooting it never noticed until the cylinder stopped turning with a bullet in the B/C gap.

I have to believe the story was true.
 
Had a Service Six 38 and a Security Six 357. I also had a 5" GP100 .357 and a 3" GP100 38 Spl. My pride and joy is my S&W 19-4 nickel. The Sixes were not designed for concealed carry, while the GP100 grip frame allowed more of a combat grip with way more choices on the market, holsters as well. I finally went for a $150 Herrett's minimal Detective grip on the Security Six. The Service Six languished and got sold. I also had a SP101 in 357 Magnum but only used light loads in it, always 357 brass. As a carry gun, it was sold and replaced by another SP101 with 6 rounds of 327 Federal.

Among all these, only the GP100 was reasonable for me to shoot with full power .357 Magnum. The trigger and accuracy of the 19-4 for me was by far the favorite, so I loaded down to suit it and sold all the rest except the 3" GP100, which I had converted to 41 Special. The Security Six hurt my hand more than any other, so maybe the bore axis was different.

In all that, not one of the .357s was ever fired with 38 Special. The only .357 Magnum I have now is the S&W 19-4, another "don't make 'em like they used to" gun.
 
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Regarding the mentions of the FBI incident, in Dade County, Florida, well, I actually kept bringing my 4” full-lug GP100 to work, with me, as a “bag gun,” well into this century, specifically for such things as felony vehicle stops, while my duty rig’s pistol was a .45 ACP 1911, from 1997 to 2002, a .40 Glock G22 from 2002 to 2004, and then a .40 SIG P229R. Finally, some time after 2008, when I added a second and third P229, my “bag gun” became a second P229, rather than the .357 revolver. Yes, indeed, I was willing to start with a sixgun, when I anticipated a fight, relegating my duty autoloader to temporary back-up status*

Why? Well, a big part of it was that long-stroke DA was, and still is, my most-stress-proof, and least-perishable, trigger-pulling skill set. On a good day, I could shoot a really good 1911 about as well as I could shoot a GP100, or S&W K-Frame, assuming that I had recently trained with the 1911. I could never shoot my several .40 glocks, which were Gen3**, nearly as well as a 1911, or a GP100 or K-Frame. Most duty and personal-carry .40 SIGs were DAK, which does a decent job of mimicking a good DA sixgun trigger stroke. (DAK was my choice. Most of my colleagues, who chose SIG, chose DA/SA. We bought our own duty firearms, within PD rules.)

A lesser reason, but still quite relevant, was that the better accuracy potential enables longer-range shooting, and the .357 Magnum has a flatter trajectory than most autopistol ammo.. Unlike many large cities, Houston, Texas, has plenty of, well, breathing room. There is much open space. If I want to flank a bad guy’s position, I want to be well away from my colleagues’ line of fire. (I will concede that some 185-grain +P .45 ACP ammo has a decently flat trajectory, but I never got around to working with any of it, to determine longer-range POA/POI, compared to my usual 230-grain standard-pressure JHPs.)

Another reason is that I could get good factory-loaded hardcast ammo, for .357 Magnum, during that time frame. I kept 125-grain JHPs in the cylinder, but brought some hardcast ammo, for specialized situations. When Federal Cartridge started making HST Tactical ammo, for auto-pistols, with bullets constructed to stay together while penetrating vehicles and barricades, it became less necessary to have some hardcast .357 ammo with me. By the time I resumed toting .45 ACP 1911 pistols, on duty, in 2016, I had good access to Federal HST Tactical. (I retired, from LEO-ing, in early 2018. In hindsight, I should have taken some serious time off, to work out some stress, and work on some injuries, and then worked until very early 2020.)

Well, here I go again, writing a book, or at least a pamphlet. Stopping now.

*Yes, I would have to justify this choice, in official correspondence, up the chain of command, as normal procedure would be to first use the primary duty pistol, and only resort to a secondary weapon for a specific reason.

**Gen4 and Gen5 Glocks fit my hands better than did Gen3. In 2002-2004, when I used those Gen3 duty Glocks, it was not yet established that grip and frame modifications would be allowed, on our duty pistols. I switched to SIG for a better fit.
 
It's the one gun I really wish Ruger would bring back. I have mine dressed up with some stag grips and she looks real sharp.
 
Why? Well, a big part of it was that long-stroke DA was, and still is, my most-stress-proof, and least-perishable, trigger-pulling skill set. On a good day, I could shoot a really good 1911 about as well as I could shoot a GP100, or S&W K-Frame, assuming that I had recently trained with the 1911. I could never shoot my several .40 glocks, which were Gen3**, nearly as well as a 1911, or a GP100 or K-Frame. Most duty and personal-carry .40 SIGs were DAK, which does a decent job of mimicking a good DA sixgun trigger stroke. (DAK was my choice. Most of my colleagues, who chose SIG, chose DA/SA. We bought our own duty firearms, within PD rules.)
Your post brought a smile to my face. For years I've thought that I may be the only person on Earth that could shoot a DA revolver better than I shoot most autos.
Let me qualify that just a bit. For slow, deliberate all-the-time-needed shooting it could go either way on any given day. For rapid "see target, acquire target, shoot target" shooting I'll take a DA revolver.
 
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Got a Six recently. I like the balance of it and am really impressed by how well it handles 357s, but the grips are way too small for me and I have small hands. Need to find something that fills in that knuckle gap behind the trigger guard.

That was part of why I traded mine way back when, the small grip really punished your hand when shooting magnums. It isn't nearly as refined a handgun as similar Colt and S&Ws. As far as being robust, like most shooters, I won't wear out any handgun. It was a typical Ruger overbuilt gun, there's a reason they stopped making them.
 
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That was part of why I traded mine way back when, the small grip really punished your hand when shooting magnums. It isn't nearly as refined a handgun as similar Colt and S&Ws. As far as being robust, like most shooters, I won't wear out any handgun. It was a typical Ruger overbuilt gun, there's a reason they stopped making them.
That's the thing...the gun is unpleasant to shoot with serious magnum loads, solutions are few. I will guess the police had no affection for them.
 
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