Green Tipped 5.56 NATO Vs. 5.56 55gr

Space Ghost · Feb 18, 2022

I don't remember reading what type of AR you had, or if you even stated. Wondering the brand, and type of barrel. As have been mentioned, different weights of bullets prefer different twist rates in barrels. Many ARs these days tend to have the higher (faster) twist rates like 1:7" because people want to shoot the heavier rounds. Twist rate can give you a starting point, but as has been said, you'll really need to shoot it with several different loads to find what the gun likes, as every single firearm will like something different if you're going for the maximum accuracy. I have some of the very good IMI MK262 clone, and some Hornady TAP for self defense work, but that kind of stuff is expensive, so like a lot of people, the bulk of my stash is plain old M193. It's a very fast, lightly constructed bullet that will break up in the target, though it won't carry much energy at longer ranges. Then again, if long ranges are the goal, the .223/5.56 isn't really the round to use.

Shawn Dodson · Feb 18, 2022

tark said:
I have always been confused on this. I have fired M-856 tracers through my AR which has a 1-9 twist. They stabilized just fine. Nothing but round holes at 200 yards.

M856 didn't stabilize well in cold arctic air, which is more dense.

SmeeAgain · Feb 19, 2022

TGW1979 said:
Hello everybody. I hope you're all well. So I picked up an AR-15 about a week and a half ago. First one I've ever had. It came with three magazines. A 10 round magazine and a pair of 30 round magazines. One of those 30 round magazines is full of green tip 5.56 ammo. The other one has 55 grain 5.56 ammo and the 10 rounder has. 223..

I've read that the green tipped ammo is good for better penetration all around. I've also heard that there's almost no difference ballistically with the amount of damage that the 5.56 55 grain versus the 5.56 62 grain green tip does. I'm looking for individuals that have fired both that can perhaps tell me if they are so close ballistically that it doesn't matter or if there is a substantial difference between the two overall.
I'm new to the AR-15 platform and both 223 and 556 ammunition. This is my first rifle that's fired both. So I'm a bit green behind the ears if you know what I mean. Very familiar with firearms I mean I grew up around them. I've got quite a few but none of them other than my new AR-15 fires the above mentioned calibers. Thank you in advance to anybody that responds. And as always... Stay safe and God bless.

It depends on what twist rate your barrel is.

TGW1979 · Feb 19, 2022

SmeeAgain said:
It depends on what twist rate your barrel is.

1:7

TGW1979 · Feb 19, 2022

Shawn Dodson said:
M856 didn't stabilize well in cold arctic air, which is more dense.

Well for 6 months out of the year I'm not far from that being in New hampshire. But I don't go out too much with my firearms in the cold weather. Don't get me wrong I do.. I like to practice in all types of weather scenarios etc etc. Just not as frequently because it does get damn cold here in the middle of new hampshire.

TGW1979 · Feb 19, 2022

CapnMac said:
The distinction between .223 and 5.56, is, functionally, similar to that between .308 and 7.62x51 (e.g. 7.62nato).

Which does not prevent massive flame wars online and all manner of dire warnings in every possible direction.

In the present case, generally, a 5.56 labeled barrel will handle .223 ammo.
Where the distinction lies, as noted well above is in the twist rate of the barrel used.
Which unlike most other arms in a given caliber has seen significant changes over the fifty year history of the 5.56nato/.223--and not in a uniform way, either.

Note the Venn Diagram above. There are reasons that people will still want to use 1:12 twist barrels. So, it's not like the slower twist barrels have completely replaced fast twist. Well, other than the serious long range shooters--where ling heavy bullets are king.

The twist rate on your barrel is what will matter most. It should be stamped in to the metal some place visible--either at the breech end or muzzle.

And, as noted above, the best this is to get a hold of several brands, and bullet weights, and see what you shoot in your rifle best.

Hello. And thank you for that very informative response. I do greatly appreciate that. So I have a 16 inch barrel with a 1:7 twist. Your recommendation of trying all different brands and weights etc of ammunition for the rifle is exactly what I'm going to do. It's been a while since I fired any rifles. I've never had an AR-15 before. Taken 42 years to get one. Couldn't turn up the offer though when I saw it leaning in the corner at the gun shop. I wasn't going to go into the store that day either. I just happened to be walking by with no money on me and I said the hell with it. I mean I'm always happy in a gun shop how can you not be? It's a beautiful rifle. It's a Sig Sauer m400 Moe enhanced classic. Christ say that in one breath. It looks just like the old school Colt M4 except it's got Magpul equipment on it. Not bad for a first ar-15. I love it just how it is I have got some accessories coming for it like a reflex / Red Dot optic. I'm going to grab another set of iron sights that kick out at a 45° angle. I'm not going to take my a2 front post off though I really like it. I will get another upper at some point. And when I do I'll probably do quite a bit of research first to determine what barrel length and twist rate I want based off of the type of shooting that I want to do. Initially.. it'd be perfectly honest with you I'd like to do some really really long range shots with this thing. Just to see what it's capable of with its current configuration. Factory settings so to speak. She was manufactured on December 28th 2012 and it left the Sig factory on the 13th of January 2013. I am proud to say that this weapon is made pretty much in my backyard I'm in the middle of New Hampshire which is not very far from where this rifle had its birth.
Again, thank you for your very thought out informative response I greatly appreciate that. Stay safe and God bless.

TGW1979 · Feb 19, 2022

FL-NC said:
Nothing dumb about that question. If it were me, I would try to work out a trade with someone whom likes M855. A trade that involved me ending up with more rounds than the amount of M855 I gave up in the trade. I would be happy to trade 1000 rounds of M855 for 1500 rounds of something "inferior", like 55 grain PMC or M193. You see, some people are convinced that US mil issued items of all sorts are superior to everything else. I personally don't agree with this idea, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Obviously, the military would NEVER settle for issuing our troops an inferior product (or something that just doesn't work) when better stuff is available, right?

As it stands right now.. I happen to be the person that likes that kind of ammo. I'm aware it's not true armor piercing. I get that. I've watched quite a few different YouTube videos of people shooting various targets with green temp ammo and the standard quote unquote ball ammo for the 5.56. I do like that little tiny bit of penetration that the green tip has over the other type. I know it's not too substantial.. but then again the price difference between the two types of ammunition is not that substantial either. So I figured I'd scoop up as much as the green tip as I can while it's still legal. You know as well as I do you give the anti-gun lobby anything and I mean anything at all to complain about or think that every good guy and girl with a gun is going to turn into a domestic terrorist over.. they'll try to ban it. That's one of the reasons I picked up my ar-15. First one I've ever owned bought it two weeks ago. At least I have it with a dated receipt now so hopefully I'll get grandfathered in. Thanks for reading my rant. Stay safe and God bless.

TGW1979 · Feb 19, 2022

tark said:
I have always been confused on this. I have fired M-856 tracers through my AR which has a 1-9 twist. They stabilized just fine. Nothing but round holes at 200 yards.

Hello. I just picked up my first ar-15. 16 in barrel with a 1 in 7 twist. It's interesting because I don't really hear much about the one in seven twist it's always 1:9 or higher...

SquidBubble · Feb 19, 2022

Between 55 FMJ and M855, I'd go with 55 just for the slightly lower price and wounding ballistics from mushrooming. Its accuracy compared to M855 at realistic defensive distances, seems negligible at best. My 16" AR has a 1:7 twist so 55 may not be perfect, but its good enough for my low standards.

Green-tip is hogwash. Not a fan of the stuff. I have just 60 rounds left and I see no use in saving it so I'll probably sell a couple loaded mags soon. I would love to stock up on more 75gr Hornady TAP but 92 cents a round is a salty price, and yet that's sadly the cheapest I can find.

TGW1979 · Feb 19, 2022

Charlie98 said:
Straight up. Actually, while I have a smaller stash of M855, I've gone back to 55grn M193 for blasting ammos... for a number of reasons, to include people freaking out when they see the evil Green Tip and think the ammo can penetrate an armored car and explode, or other Hollywood nonsense. I've also found generic 55grn FMJ to be more accurate than M855 generally.

FWIW, my 1:7 Colt H-Bar pretty much hates anything 55grn... but that may be just the rifle itself, or the particular ammos/bullet, or combination thereof. Every rifle is different.

Don't get me wrong I do like the green tip. I'm aware that they really don't do a whole bunch more then the other types. I get it. I have green tips and all of my magazines. And it amuses me when someone comes over and they see it and they say to me.. hey Tim what kind of ammo is that with the green tips on it? That's when I look at them and I tell him it's straight up armor pie

SquidBubble said:
Between 55 FMJ and M855, I'd go with 55 just for volume and wounding ballistics from mushrooming. Its accuracy compared to M855 at realistic defensive distances, seems negligible at best. My 16" AR has a 1:7 twist so 55 may not be perfect, but its good enough for my low standards.

Green-tip is hogwash. Not a fan of the stuff. I have just 60 rounds left and I see no use in saving it so I'll probably sell a couple loaded mags soon. I would love to stock up on more 75gr Hornady TAP but 92 cents a round is a salty price, and yet that's sadly the cheapest I can find.

You definitely can't go wrong with hornady. They make a hell of a product. All around. You know if you go online and sign up they'll send you a catalog and enclosed with that catalog is a beautiful poster and well I'll show you what I mean I'll include a photograph of it at the bottom of this. Hell I laminated mine. It's going on the wall in my shop.
Regarding green tip I am very green behind the ears with the AR-15 platform and the ammunition. I'm aware of the my new differences between 5.56 and 223. Fortunately.. if I'm not mistaken the vast majority of AR platform rifles that fire 556 rounds also can fire 223.
As far as green tip ammo goes I know it's not armor piercing. I'm experimenting with that and the 55 grain ammo that I have. When I got the rifle it came with a ton of green tipped ammo. And I asked the guy with the difference was and he said you know there's a steal penetrator tip in them. I asked him if that's going to mess up the barrel and he said no because it's just the tip it's not the entire but itself. I took a magnet just to see if it was accurate or not sure enough. So yeah like I said I'm green with all of this right now I'm going to be buying up all kinds of different ammos and finding out which works best I have a 1:7 twist on a 16 inch barrel.
I love this rifle. It's a Sig Sauer m400 looks like a colt and bar. I bought it used. Unfortunately the gentleman before me passed away and the owner of the shop was his friend and he just didn't want the rifle around for whatever reasons probably reminded him too much I told him I would take absolute perfect care of it so I got it at a hell of a deal. I'm glad I do too because it's particular model has been discontinued. There's plenty of them out there for sale. People are asking ridiculous prices for it though I've seen it as low as $900 and is high as 1700. Anyway I'm off topic. But yeah here's a picture of that poster I got from hornady.

TGW1979 · Feb 19, 2022

Space Ghost said:
I don't remember reading what type of AR you had, or if you even stated. Wondering the brand, and type of barrel. As have been mentioned, different weights of bullets prefer different twist rates in barrels. Many ARs these days tend to have the higher (faster) twist rates like 1:7" because people want to shoot the heavier rounds. Twist rate can give you a starting point, but as has been said, you'll really need to shoot it with several different loads to find what the gun likes, as every single firearm will like something different if you're going for the maximum accuracy. I have some of the very good IMI MK262 clone, and some Hornady TAP for self defense work, but that kind of stuff is expensive, so like a lot of people, the bulk of my stash is plain old M193. It's a very fast, lightly constructed bullet that will break up in the target, though it won't carry much energy at longer ranges. Then again, if long ranges are the goal, the .223/5.56 isn't really the round to use.

I have a Sig Sauer m400 Moe classic enhanced. I think that's what it's called. Not to be mistaken with the tread or snake bite or any of those. Kind of looks like a Colt M4. It's got a 16 inch barrel with a one in seven twist.
I picked up the rifle.. it's actually my first AR-15 ever. Took me 42 damn years to get one. Not bad for a first AR-15 though. It's pretty heavy for its size too. I've picked up all kinds of rifles in my day and I always handle the AR-15s at the local shop and they all seem to be at least I don't know they feel like they're two pounds are so lighter than this one. I like the weight on it though. Nice and heavy.
Anyway as I was about to say.. when I have rifles typically I'm thinking medium to long range general Target practice. For close range protection I have pistols and shotguns. I don't leave the AR-15 loaded in my home. Every firearm I have is in my gun safe with the exception of two of them I have a 9 mm that I have on me all the time and I have a shotgun that is attached to a steel rod I have built into the wall next to my bed.
Anyway I do plan on experimenting with all the different bullet weights. I constantly get mixed up on what The different twist rates are for in the different length barrels. I don't really read or see much about the one in seven twist it's usually higher than that. I'm aware that the lower the number the faster the bullet spins. And last I knew a spinning bullet moving incredibly fast with its rotation is better for accuracy. I could be mistaken. I read a ridiculous amount of information but I don't retain much of it due to my ADHD unfortunately.
Everybody says to me that the full would assist on these rifles is useless. No it definitely isn't. I picked up a couple of brand new 30 round metal magazines and the ammo right now doesn't feed too well out of them so I'm really glad that the forward assist is there. It would be a pain in the ass if it wasn't.

12Bravo20 · Feb 19, 2022

TGW1979 said:
Well for 6 months out of the year I'm not far from that being in New hampshire.

Trust me, New Hampshire winters are no where as cold as true Arctic winters.I went through the Arctic Warfare training and was certified to train others. Those -30 or colder temperatures does all kinds of weird stuff to ammo, weapons, and equipment.

DustyGmt · Feb 19, 2022

TGW1979 said:
Well for 6 months out of the year I'm not far from that being in New hampshire. But I don't go out too much with my firearms in the cold weather. Don't get me wrong I do.. I like to practice in all types of weather scenarios etc etc. Just not as frequently because it does get damn cold here in the middle of new hampshire.

I hear you neighbor, (Vermont). But lately it's been too damn cold and blustery to do any prolonged shooting, although last week was a very good week for me shooting wise, I went out and shot for a couple hours a day 5 out of 7 days......

CapnMac · Feb 19, 2022

D.B. Cooper said:
Then what constitutes an AP round in a rifle?

Per Federal Law, we find this:
From 18 USC 921, Definitions

(17)
(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.

(B) armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C)The term “armor piercing ammunition” does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

For rifles, it's apparently down to what the manufacturer says it's for. So, that's going to depend on how "armor" and "penetration" are defined. Personnel armor being different than aircraft being different than armored vehicle "armor."

SmeeAgain · Feb 19, 2022

FL-NC said:
Nothing dumb about that question. If it were me, I would try to work out a trade with someone whom likes M855. A trade that involved me ending up with more rounds than the amount of M855 I gave up in the trade. I would be happy to trade 1000 rounds of M855 for 1500 rounds of something "inferior", like 55 grain PMC or M193. You see, some people are convinced that US mil issued items of all sorts are superior to everything else. I personally don't agree with this idea, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Obviously, the military would NEVER settle for issuing our troops an inferior product (or something that just doesn't work) when better stuff is available, right?

Trading ammo... even in the extreme benefit you mentioned is a really bad idea.
1. You don't know if they are factory loads or some novice's reloads.
2. You don't know what they have been exposed to in storage.
Even with a huge profit, it's simply not worth the risk.

DustyGmt · Feb 19, 2022

CapnMac said:
Per Federal Law, we find this:
From 18 USC 921, Definitions

For rifles, it's apparently down to what the manufacturer says it's for. So, that's going to depend on how "armor" and "penetration" are defined. Personnel armor being different than aircraft being different than armored vehicle "armor."

So given this definition, a 10.5" AR 5.56 pistol wouldn't even be subject to the definition? "Full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber"

Correct? Also, as an aside, is the newer M855A1 (Grey tip) still unavailable for civilian purchase and in addition to being unavailable, is it unlawful to possess? I am pretty sure it isn't available nor illegal to possess but I'm just double checking here on THR....

CapnMac · Feb 19, 2022

DustyGmt said:
"Full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber"

I believe BATFE asserts that .223 > .22 (esp. as a "223" is 0.224" [5.7mm] diameter and larger than the "22s" at 0.223")

I know Winchester labels their white box as M885 (and seems to get a premium price for it, too). If a person hangs around enough cartridge collectors and militaria shows, you can find M885A1, at lest I've seen it here in Texas (if not recently).

Use of 223/5.56 in pistol-format weapons confuses the ammo issue no end. And has been an issue ever since legislation on "ammunition" was first written, what with all the "dual use" calibers out there. Like .22LR as a for instance (which id doubly confusing to low-information store clerks for having "rifle" right in the name). But, .32-20; .38-40; .44-40 and the like have been a "both" for donkey's years.

D.B. Cooper · Feb 19, 2022

CapnMac said:
Per Federal Law, we find this:
From 18 USC 921, Definitions

For rifles, it's apparently down to what the manufacturer says it's for. So, that's going to depend on how "armor" and "penetration" are defined. Personnel armor being different than aircraft being different than armored vehicle "armor."

Seems like legally shaky ground. For example, what happens if a person obtains some ld, WWII 30-06 AP (black tip-I forget the actual numeric nomenclature), pulls the bullets and reloads them with new powder and primers? Did they just manufacture AP ammo? (Is that even illegal?)

CapnMac · Feb 19, 2022

D.B. Cooper said:
WWII 30-06 AP (black tip-I forget the actual numeric nomenclature), pulls the bullets and reloads them with new powder and primers? Did they just manufacture AP ammo? (Is that even illegal?)

Ok, the AP 30-06 is also M2 ("Ammunition Cal..30 Armor Piercing, M2" [e.g. second model]) They did not change to incrementing the "M" until after the 30-06 was out of service.

Now, if you do not sell the ammo, you (typically) do not need the 10 FFL license (maybe)--the 06 FFL is not allowed to make AP ammo (if I'm remembering that rightly). Mind, local laws may be more restrictive.

I'm drawing a blank (NPI) on whether Remington made the XP100 in 30-06 so that an M2 AP round would be an illegal "pistol" AP bound. (The .308 one I won in a raffle was tough enough to shoot as was.)

A few years ago, ther ewas a ton of "surplussed" Lake City ammo and parts sourced out of MG belts up for sale. A bunch of that was 511, five ball, one tracer, one AP or API. From memory it was all sold as "components."

GunnyUSMC · Feb 19, 2022

Like others have said, the the rate of twist of a barrel is the biggest factor when it comes to choosing your ammo. But not all barrels are the same. I have seen 1 in 7 barrels that were more accurate with 55gr ammo.
I like M855 ammo and have a few thousand rounds. I call it my SHTF ammo. Most of what I shoot is 55gr ammo. This is because it’s just cheaper to shoot.
I don’t know why so many people get worked up over M855 not being so accurate. To tell you the truth, if a SHTF situation was to fall on us tomorrow, you will most likely not be engaging targets out to 400 and 600 yards. Most likely it would be less then 100 yards.
But then most of us just like to shoot and have fun. So try out a few different weights, and brands of ammo, to find out what your rifle likes the best. Then go out and enjoy each range trip.

arsterling180 · Feb 19, 2022

I’ve had actual falgp90

CapnMac said:
Ok, the AP 30-06 is also M2 ("Ammunition Cal..30 Armor Piercing, M2" [e.g. second model]) They did not change to incrementing the "M" until after the 30-06 was out of service.

Now, if you do not sell the ammo, you (typically) do not need the 10 FFL license (maybe)--the 06 FFL is not allowed to make AP ammo (if I'm remembering that rightly). Mind, local laws may be more restrictive.

I'm drawing a blank (NPI) on whether Remington made the XP100 in 30-06 so that an M2 AP round would be an illegal "pistol" AP bound. (The .308 one I won in a raffle was tough enough to shoot as was.)

A few years ago, ther ewas a ton of "surplussed" Lake City ammo and parts sourced out of MG belts up for sale. A bunch of that was 511, five ball, one tracer, one AP or API. From memory it was all sold as "components."

The lack of a "pistol" might explain the AP and HEAP 8mm has came in over the recent years.

HowieG · Feb 19, 2022

redcon1 said:
Barrel length will play a part in any comparison of the external ballistics of either projectile. The .223/5.56 has always been highly dependent on velocity for maximum terminal effects. It doesn't rely on bullet mass like a 7.62x39. That's why the original M16A1 had a 20" barrel, not a 14.5" barrel. Somewhere along the line, longer barrels fell out of favor. Everyone wanted an M4. I never did. I like more velocity. It might not be completely necessary but more velocity is just better than less with 5.56mm. This will be especially evident with heavier bullets like the ss109 green tipped bullet and no matter what you do, the longer barrel is always going to be capable of achieving a higher velocity and, thus, better terminal effects at longer effective ranges. These effects could include penetration capability or fragmentation effects or both. I'm building an AR15 right now with a 20" barrel. Velocities that fall less than published reloading data are just disappointing.

The A1 was in service when I served. I feel the same way about the 20" barrel. It never seemed long to me and it didn't hamstring the ballistics like an M4 Poodle killer. I understand the M4 took over because we have spent significant time now fighting in urban or semi-urban environments. The short M4 supposedly works better when you stack up and do an entry. Maybe so. I was a tanker. Blowing the building down seemed more logical to us.

1911 guy · Feb 19, 2022

In my opinion, the M193 is the better round overall, but I keep plenty of M855 on hand for SBR's. Lower velocity due to barrel length and the specific projectile make penetration far better than M193 from a SBR.

redcon1 · Feb 20, 2022

HowieG said:
The A1 was in service when I served. I feel the same way about the 20" barrel. It never seemed long to me and it didn't hamstring the ballistics like an M4 Poodle killer. I understand the M4 took over because we have spent significant time now fighting in urban or semi-urban environments. The short M4 supposedly works better when you stack up and do an entry. Maybe so. I was a tanker. Blowing the building down seemed more logical to us.

I was in a Bradley Fighting Vehicle. The shorter barrel kind of made sense in the back of a BFV and back then, I recall, the M4 was really starting to become more of status thing than a lethality thing IMO. They just looked cool and the cool kids had them and everybody wanted one and I guess they were probably newer and shinier than our well used A2s but even back then, I would have preferred a nice A2 with a 20" barrel over a nice M4 with a 14.5" barrel. I think that, after the lessons of Mogadishu, the United States DOD has probably wasted a lot of resources trying to squeeze 20" barrel terminal effects out of shorter than 20" barrels ultimately culminating in the M855A1 round which seems pretty potent, (perhaps too potent for the platforms that might fire it in fact) and again, are US threats going to be wearing AR500 plates? Russians? Chinese? Maybe. I don't know. Regardless, I think at close range in a 14.5" barrel, against unarmored threats, I'd want M193 and, honestly, I think the good old M193 round has its own armor defeating capabilities, especially when velocity is maximized. There's no rule that says you have to aim COM. The M855 is OK for what it is. It doesn't penetrate as well as the M855A1 which is not readily obtainable for most of us anyways (and it would probably wreck our guns if we used it routinely) and It doesn't fragment as well as the M193 55 grain cannelured projectile. because of its construction, it also isn't going to be as accurate as any commercial bullet or even the 55 grain bullet but it will hold its velocity longer and it's probably going to penetrate better than your typical commercial bullet or the 55 grain M193 projectile especially with max velocity.

DukeConnor · Feb 20, 2022

I belong to 3 clubs and everyone of them forbid "magnetic" projectiles.
So greentip is as useless to me as tracers. I have no place to shoot either.

Green Tipped 5.56 NATO Vs. 5.56 55gr

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