Carry at gun shows.

Hokkmike said:

I have never been to a gun show where CC is prohibited. I can not remember a gun show where open carry was prohibited. Most ALL gun shows ask you to present, render safe, and zip tie the actions of guns being traded and/or sold.

Click to expand...

All the gun shows in the Virginia / Maryland area, that I'm aware of, require all guns (not just those for sale) to be unloaded and zip tied. The only exception is for law enforcement officers in uniform.

This isn't much of a problem in Illinois. It's almost impossible to get a carry permit in the first place. The State Police had a large portion of their funds stolen from them and used for other purposes, and they are unable to process any applications in a timely manner. The people that run this state aren't very gun friendly, anyway. There is little pressure from Springfield to speed things up.

Let’s talk about another hypothetical. I’m a LE officer and make an arrest. I’ve got to lodge the prisoner with the corrections dept.

Their rule is no weapons past the security desk, and you’re expected to submit your weapon to them. But I don’t want to, I feel threatened in the lockup and don’t think they’re able to protect me, so I’ll do what I want and give them my service gun, but keep my backup gun hidden on me.

I mean, I’m polite and courteous with the desk staff, but I think I have a right to protect myself regardless of their silly rules.

PS: I had never done this, or even thought of doing this when I was working, but I get the idea from reading a few posts here that some people would think it’s okay if they feel it’s best for them.

Speedo66 said:

I get the idea from reading a few posts here that some people would think it’s okay if they feel it’s best for them

Click to expand...

"I'm the only one in this room professional enough ..."

Yeah, we're all so perfect here that the rules for mere mortals should not apply.

Hopefully, some others here noted the incongruity of comparing a movie theater chain's "no weapons permitted" policy to what has been common practice for gun shows in most of this country for the past half-century or so.

And hopefully most understand that the preponderance of regulation foisted upon us by this country's litigious history is directed at the lowest common denominator and should not be taken personally by those of us capable of routine safety practices and possessed of a modicum of common sense.

*edited to add that when I said, "should not be taken personally" I'm not advocating disregarding rules, I'm saying, should not be taken as a personal insult or an abrogation of one's individual rights.

JohnKSa said:

You clearly don't understand. Some people don't have to respect property rights. If they want to come into a business and make their own rules then the business owner is wrong if their rules are different. Where do business owners get off making policies that they don't like? It's not like being the property owner gives them special rights to make rules that apply on the premises! And, of course, people like that have the right to go where they want even if they know they will be "politely and courteously" violating the property owner's rules once they get there--that's just how it works.

Click to expand...

Omg I know right? How dumb this system is where businesses think they can make their own rules for what happens on their premises! We citizens should be able to tell the evil business/corporate entities how to operate on a whim, isn't this a free country?!

I almost didn't realize you were being sarcastic until the end lol.

The only time I ever worry about it is if they have an .05 or .06 sign posted. Some shows do and some don't...

The reason is that there are some dummies who think gun shows are a place to show off your carry gun, and in their exitedness over the coolness of their special gun, these dummies forget to unload it (or to do so correctly) and before you know it, there is a new hole somewhere. By definition (and common sense) a carry gun being used in the role of a carry gun (loaded and being carried) should never exit the holster unless it is to be fired, period. I have been at 3 gun shows in my life where a gun has been fired inside. It is a sad state of affairs, but this is another case where the competent majority must lower themselves to the lowest common denominator( the mouth breathing idiots) in order to make a public function safe for everyone. In addition, there may be rules in place and imposed by the promoter, police, etc. tying into things like liability and venue rules. Remember that the venue owner usually isn't the same as the promoter.

FL-NC said:

The reason is that there are some dummies who think gun shows are a place to show off your carry gun, and in their exitedness over the coolness of their special gun, these dummies forget to unload it (or to do so correctly) and before you know it, there is a new hole somewhere. By definition (and common sense) a carry gun being used in the role of a carry gun (loaded and being carried) should never exit the holster unless it is to be fired, period. I have been at 3 gun shows in my life where a gun has been fired inside. It is a sad state of affairs, but this is another case where the competent majority must lower themselves to the lowest common denominator( the mouth breathing idiots) in order to make a public function safe for everyone. In addition, there may be rules in place and imposed by the promoter, police, etc. tying into things like liability and venue rules. Remember that the venue owner usually isn't the same as the promoter.

Click to expand...

I mean, I kinda have mixed feelings about all this. On the one hand, absolutely there is a high concentration of people who are apparently unable to obey the rules of firearms safety in a gun show. I can certainly understand why the average gun show promoter has to have a rule forbidding loaded weapons, whether because of the event insurance carrier, local ordinance, or venue policy. And I'm thoroughly on the side of private property rights. But on the other hand, I mean, I'm also pretty sure that loaded weapons were forbidden at all the gun shows where there was a negligent discharge, as well. So the rule is also stupid in the sense that there's no such thing as an idiot-proof rule, as we can always wheel up a bigger idiot.

Madcap_Magician said:

I mean, I kinda have mixed feelings about all this. On the one hand, absolutely there is a high concentration of people who are apparently unable to obey the rules of firearms safety in a gun show. I can certainly understand why the average gun show promoter has to have a rule forbidding loaded weapons, whether because of the event insurance carrier, local ordinance, or venue policy. And I'm thoroughly on the side of private property rights. But on the other hand, I mean, I'm also pretty sure that loaded weapons were forbidden at all the gun shows where there was a negligent discharge, as well. So the rule is also stupid in the sense that there's no such thing as an idiot-proof rule, as we can always wheel up a bigger idiot.

Click to expand...

Well, it is what it is. There are also signs I have seen at many gun shows that warn people that they will be arrested if they enter with a loaded weapon, so the rule had to be backed up by a threat. It just comes down to promoters trying to have a safe and successful event, and doing what they can to to give us a show to attend while covering their own butts as best they can.

Those that have qualms about not carrying, simply don't go. Before Covid, the shows were too crowded anyway. Nobody's going to miss you.

KY DAN said:

No one is upset Bazoo, I simply lack tack.

I am spear heading this topic, I have had this conversation with 1000s of people who simply feel I or the promoter am some how treading on their rights.

I have observed this situation as being emotionally charged and for the most part the people who blew up only came for a verbal fight. Call it a test of 2nd amendment man hood if you would.

No one simply believes the truth based on the facts, a average policy for liability event insurance for 12 shows is around 3000 dollars a year and after 5 years of no incidents the rate drops. This policy and price is based around NO CLAIMS. If a claim is made it is easy to pay 10 to 20 thousand dollars a year for a policy with the same coverage.

People simply feel they should be able to come and go and do whatever they like in gunshows. These same people object to paying admission at the gate, show rules, etc. A gunshow is a business that is only there to make a promoter money and anything that takes away money must be dealt which swiftly and directly.

People do not understand how close to death they really are when they stand around inside a gunshow due to 1qty person's POOR decision and actions.

Click to expand...

KY DAN said:

No one is upset Bazoo, I simply lack tack.

I am spear heading this topic, I have had this conversation with 1000s of people who simply feel I or the promoter am some how treading on their rights.

I have observed this situation as being emotionally charged and for the most part the people who blew up only came for a verbal fight. Call it a test of 2nd amendment man hood if you would.

No one simply believes the truth based on the facts, a average policy for liability event insurance for 12 shows is around 3000 dollars a year and after 5 years of no incidents the rate drops. This policy and price is based around NO CLAIMS. If a claim is made it is easy to pay 10 to 20 thousand dollars a year for a policy with the same coverage.

People simply feel they should be able to come and go and do whatever they like in gunshows. These same people object to paying admission at the gate, show rules, etc. A gunshow is a business that is only there to make a promoter money and anything that takes away money must be dealt which swiftly and directly.

People do not understand how close to death they really are when they stand around inside a gunshow due to 1qty person's POOR decision and actions.

Click to expand...

It's a real problem when people ignore the first rule of firearms. That guns are always loaded. Every gun i touch is always loaded.

I don't think I've been to a gun show in at least 12 years.

I always obeyed the rules.

AlexanderA said:

All the gun shows in the Virginia / Maryland area, that I'm aware of, require all guns (not just those for sale) to be unloaded and zip tied. The only exception is for law enforcement officers in uniform.

Click to expand...

Not so in PA... Good to hear about this. Thanks for educating me.....

KY DAN said:

We can always be friends.

These discussions are merely theoretical chess games, end of the day I know people will do what they feel is best regardless of other people's opinions.

Click to expand...

It is a GOOD thread and discussion KY. Believe it or not, I once belonged to a hunting club with 900 acres and a bar / restaurant that forbade CC or open carry in the "clubhouse". I guess the reasoning was that members drank there and alcohol and guns are not a good mix. I loved the place though... You could get a burger, fries, and (non alcoholic)drink for about $3.00. They served a mean breakfast too. It was one of the 40-8 clubs.... (we have since moved away)

Most gun shows post that no loaded firearms aloud inside. But that request has no weight of law. The most they can do is make you leave & tell you not to come back, then if you come back they charge you with trespassing. But there is one show in our Army reserve center & that is government property, if you have a loaded firearm inside at that show it's a felony charge. I conceal & carry in most of the local shows except the Army reserve center show.

I'm a CPL instructor. My classroom is in my home. One of my rules are "no firearms or ammo" in the classroom. Break that rule and I will gladly refund your tuition and show you the door. Another rule is "no smoking"...people who smoke take it outside during the breaks nobody seems to have a problem with either.

When I attend a venue that has a "no gun rule" I have a choice..respect the rule without question and leave the gun in the car or choose not to attend the function. Pretty simple.

For those that think they should carry in a show even when prohibited, start paying attention to how many participants are getting swept. Start keeping count and you’ll run out of fingers before ten minutes is up

Part of why this is so acrimonious here is in the 'friction" between the "newness" of CC and the history of gunshows.
It was not that long ago that we passed the milestone of having more than half the States have some from of Shall Issue.
Even more recently have we seen the ascendancy of Constitutional Carry.

Sadly, for us, we are also in an ascendancy of Distracted Life, too.

These two extremities will require a great deal of adjustment,and with such adjustments will come discomforts.

Were there still shows at George R Brown, I know I'd not attend unless they had a sally port at the entrance--that is not a nice parking lot traverse even in daylight. (And, more than some of that may have been from having been to more than gunshows at GRB, too.) And, I have to admit that not all venues have rubbed me that way, either

However, the image of the ammo dump bucket at the door to Will Rogers chock full of $3 ammo, does stick in my mind.

I have no easy answers for this conundrum.

CapnMac said:

Part of why this is so acrimonious here is in the 'friction" between the "newness" of CC and the history of gunshows.
It was not that long ago that we passed the milestone of having more than half the States have some from of Shall Issue.

Click to expand...

This is actually a very good point. It was not so long ago that only a few states were "shall issue."

I wonder about the age/generational breakdown relative to how many folks take serious umbrage to "no gun zones" and places where they're not allowed to carry... Could it be that those of us who are more sanguine about restrictions (such as no loaded CC in gun shows) have been around a lot longer and maybe don't take CC for granted, have a bit different perspective on these sorts of issues?

Here it depends on the venue and promoter. Most shows are posted PC30.05 -- no unlicensed concealed carry, but not posted 30.06 no concealed carry, and all openly carried guns need to be inspected and zip tied as a safety precaution (including everything on the tables).

Long blada blah:

I'm so not confused about the predisposition to "no carry guns" allowed. To be clear, I adamantly disagree with the policy. But lets consider the numbers, vis a vis either Walmart *or* a gun store (super shop or not). Let's say in a population there's 1% irresponsible population. Maybe drunk drivers, ground diggers that don't search underground gas lines, whatever, making up stats for the sake of argument. So, unfortunately 1% (or whatever) of gun owners are slack with the 4 rules. So,100 owners frequent a gun store a day. 1 (1%) demonstrates bad adherence to safety. One. What if there is a gun show with 1,000 attendees *per day*? That's 10 safety violations each day, 20-30 over a weekend.

Essentially, sadly there will be some greater or lesser percentage of the gun owner population will be unsafe. 1%? 3%? 8%? Whatever. The greater the population at an event, the greater the NUMBER of unsafe occurrences, statistically. Perhaps the percentage increases due to new/uninstructed attendees, perhaps not. When I approach a gun range, shooting event, etc, I expect some level (hopefully less than 1 individual percentage, meaning zero) of safety errors. The point is, regardless of the inevitable percentage, the larger the population, the greater probability of safety violation. Given all that, I don't appreciate the disarm requirement. But I accept the event's best effort to minimize the statistical chance of a negligent discharge. If you are part of the (assumed) 99%, you're not the problem. I am part of the 99%. I'd just appreciate not being a victim of the 1%.

Keep in mind the xxx% of errors do not include the permitted CCWs that may ignore the entrance rule and have a lapse. Whether one accepts the rule, or not and is a responsible carrier is up to the individual. The chance of a negligent discharge is real in the population. The need to return fire [blink blink] on a negligent discharge I'd guess is REEEALY small. Regardless, I'll go or not, I'll carry conceal or not, I'll not support or decry either side

-jb, all about the math, maybe

wally said:

Most shows are posted PC30.05

Click to expand...

Perhaps down south, but here in DFW not so much.

Bazoo said:

I have been to one gun show and I was required to unload my carry gun, and relinquish my ammo to enter.

Click to expand...

I spent half an hour in line a few years ago, and ran into that at the big local show. Plus they had (presumably off-duty) cops patting everyone down before they let them in.

Almost everyone was complaining, but they were cooperating. I just turned walked away, stopping every four or five steps to tell people what was going on. I got to my truck and looked back as I was getting in, there were a dozen people who'd gotten out of line and were doing the same.

Tulsa show had a shotgun discharge today. Gun was loaded and tie wrapped all through the show. Apparently the tie wrap didn’t get out on right. Shot was straight up fortunately.

Never been to a gun show where you could carry loaded inside. Better think before you sneak one in. You could lose you permit. And rightly so.