Concealed Carry at Gun Show

[Tyris]

Other gun shows in other venues have different rules. At least respect the folks there enough to abide by them. I've failed to make you see the benefit of common courtesy and legal, moral and ethical precedent. Attitudes like yours will ensure that the institution of the gun show is headed for a lingering death. Too bad.

As if the perpetually degrading plunge into 50% of the tables hocking beanie babies, jerky, nazi paraphernalia, and assorted trash was not bad enough, we have to contend with gun control apologists seeking to disarm the patrons. Perhaps they should die.

-T

 

[sacp81170a]

Perhaps they should die.

I'm assuming you mean the gun shows...

Far from being an apologist, I'd say that much of the reason gun shows are on a "perpetually degrading plunge into 50% of the tables hocking beanie babies, jerky, nazi paraphernalia, and assorted trash" is that the reputable, high quality dealers have gotten tired of the hassles of having to watch out for their merchandise like hawks. This includes having folks who have no intention of buying the guns crowding around the tables, pawing at and handling them with little regard to safety or courtesy.

Good, professional shows with high quality exhibitors have few of these problems, but they're getting to be fewer and farther between. I've seen the smaller shows here locally taking that plunge that you mention. If there can be no common ground or compromise, perhaps you're right, maybe they should die.

Check out some of my posts here and you'll see that I'm far from being a "gun-control apologist".

 

[mnrivrat]

I already gave the example of an off-duty LEO trying a holster with his loaded
pistol and having an ND. Even trained people can do stupid things.

And the point here is what ? Even trained people should "never" be allowed to handle or possess a loaded gun ? Why should a gun show be different for this LEO than the locker room at the station, or at home with the wife and kids, or out in the public while on duty and carrying openly ? If we can't trust him to be safe at a gun show, why trust him to be anywhere else in public with a loaded gun ?

In my state the laws do not allow a simple sign to prevent carry in a public place except those disignated as no carry zones by law. Gun shows are not one of them. I understand the signs to mean no loaded guns when it comes to trade guns, or guns for sale that are expected to be handled. If the show posted a "No loaded guns allowed - including those authorized by law" I will not carry into the gun show. Most likely won't go in at all if my fellow pro gun friends don't trust me to be there.

 

[SilentArmy]

Crossroads of the West Gunshows ask you to "check and clear" your weapons at the door. It is asked but not enforcable. There have been at least 15 cited instances where someone was handed a loaded gun at a gunshow and bystanders were injured by ND. I stop to read the sign to learn why and thats about the extent of it. Many local gunstores have a keep your concealed, Concealed policy which makes sense.
I have also noticed that the Gunshows have started looking more and more like TIJUANA! Tables of Cheap imported crap! and 50% is no exaggeration on this lately. I guess its better than a half full convention center. With the prices charged for the vendor tables these days and the fact that many of these guys prics are so outof control that they go all weekend without selling one thing! (As it should be) One used to be able to find a bargain on guns and ammo at the show and now it's full of Clowns that think the "blue Book" value has ANYTHING to do with what a gun is worth! It does not matter what you are peddling, It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it and not a penny more!
I have deviated from OP but I feel better now!

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

When the venue is a county or state fairground, the fairgrounds are themselves clearly "posted." Shows held at other venues (various convention centers) are less clear. The convention centers themselves are not posted, but the shows have "no loaded firearms" signs up. This is less clear -- do they mean firearms being brought in for sale or trade, or your carry gun that is not going to come out of the holster? I play it safe. (whistling)

 

[karz10]

I went out of my way, looking the facility web page, the gun show web page about the specific show, and some other info, about a show in NC one time, and nothing said you couldn't CCW there....

...then I remembered the NC law regarding CWP, you cannot carry into any event where admission is charged.

I always have to remember the nuances between NC and SC since I spend about equal time in each. Way too complicated. Your state may vary of course....but you have to check the policy of the show promoter, the facility, but as I point out, don't forget the 'gotchas' in your state code.

Karz

 

[Smurfslayer]

I'm being paid to provide the security, and when I take a break and go into the display area, I secure my loaded weapon with the officer who's relieving me.

Don't kid yourself either. Most of the exhibitors are carrying concealed too.

If the exhibitors and security can't be bothered to follow the rules, the patrons can't either. Plus, let's not forget you can replace that 800 dollar handgun, but not someone's life. These policies are simply another form of disarmed victim zones in an effort by folks to make the world safe for terrorists and thugs. Terrorist are actively looking for venues to cause high profile mass death. That's why we've seen malls, schools and campuses targeted. Terrorist leaders aren't stupid. Eventually they're going to realize that gun shows are also high victim ratio zones. Remember, the leaders don't blow themselves up, they send lesser terrorists to do that. They're not worried about breaking some pathetic show rule and all they have to do is make it in the door and detonate. That alone would produce probably 250 - 300 casualties in our local large show.

 

[sacp81170a]

It's apparent that most of the posters here have no clue where their "rights" end and others' rights begin. Until y'all can figure that out, I'm wasting my time and effort trying to explain things from the other point of view. Continue on your path of denigrating the rights of others and insisting that yours and yours only can prevail and you're opening the door to those very same rights not being inalienable.

If you have "inalienable" rights, it must follow that others have them also. By not respecting that, you give others the logical grounding to not respect your "inalienable" rights. The very foundation of your arguments undermines your liberty. Think about it.

 

[Smurfslayer]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that hte vendors cannot enact a ban on firearms there. I am saying that they're wrong, hypocritical, and endangering the customers by doing so.

Rights are a two way street and if gun show vendors and promoters feel that their 800 dollar guns are worth more than the customers safety then I think there is something seriously wrong with their upbringing. We don't need friends like that.

 

[cpaspr]

Okay, I skipped page two, but I've seen these types of threads before. I've only attended one gun show while packing, so that's the one I'll relate.

Everyone had to pay to get in, just inside the door. At that point they asked if you had any loaded guns. I quietly handed over my permit, and the guy I was talking to said he thought that would be okay, but had to check. He checked, his supervisor said no, it's an insurance issue. So I unholstered, dropped the mag and the chambered round, and he zipped it. The mag and round went in my pocket, the gun back in the holster. When I left I simply cut the tie and reloaded.

Did I feel unprotected? No, not really. In case of an idiot trying to shoot up the gun show (very low possibility), the dezip, quick reload was always available. Unless I happened to be target no. 1, in which case I wouldn't have time to react anyway.

One problem I've heard of with people who carry at gun shows, is simply one of human nature. Person A walks up to a table where he sees his Buddy, Person B, looking at a handgun under the glass. Happens to be the same as what he's carrying. So he says: "Yeah, that's a nice piece. Here. Wanna see mine a bit closer than you can see his?" And hauls it out. Yeah, real stupid. But face it, lots of people who might otherwise be smart just kinda get that stupid when there's that much sensory overload around (ie: guns, guns, and more guns!!!).

 

[mnrivrat]

As weird as it sounds most of these rules are to protect your right to go to a gun show and buy a gun. The anti's are looking for every excuse to shut them down and I feel those of you hollering about your rights are playing into the anti's trap.

If we need to always walk on egg shells to conduct our pro-firearm business then perhaps we have already lost the battle. Gun shows are likely safer than soccer games and yet the anti-gun people will always work to shut them down because that is what they do .

It's apparent that most of the posters here have no clue where their "rights" end and others' rights begin. Until y'all can figure that out, I'm wasting my time and effort trying to explain things from the other point of view.

What's apparent to me is that there are some people who disagree with your point of view. That hardly indicates they "have no clue" , or can't understand your point of view. I not only go to gun shows but have been a promoter in the past, and filled the roll of security as well. I understand perfectly what you are saying and what you believe to be justification for your point of view. I just don't agree with you - that simple !

I would also respect any legal sign that clearly indicates that I am not welcome in attendance if I conceal carry. If it is illegal for me to carry, I will not carry. The legality of a sign varies from state to state.

Setting aside the legality , if a show in my state clearly indicates that its intent is to limit access to CCW holders ,I would also respect their wishes by not attending their show. That is both out of respect for them, and what I personaly consider a lack of respect for me, by them. A personal choice - mine to make.

edit: ps: If a dealer can carry a loaded weapon, or if the security can carry a loaded weapon, then why can't a CCW holder ? What makes them less intitled ? That is part of my point.

 

[Smurfslayer]

He checked, his supervisor said no, it's an insurance issue. So I unholstered, dropped the mag and the chambered round, and he zipped it.

So far the only support I've seen for this assertion is a scanned .pdf of an agreement from a promoter which required all guns to be sold to be secured. Nothing was shown in the agreement which in any way prohibited armed people. I'm not saying they don't exist (insurance policies for gun shows requiring disarmed customers), I'm saying I've asked 2 promoters for it and got that pdf from a previous THR thread. I'm starting to think these "policies" are like leprechauns.

But face it, lots of people who might otherwise be smart just kinda get that stupid when there's that much sensory overload around (ie: guns, guns, and more guns!!!).

Permit holders can't be trusted. Blood in the aisles, parking lot shoot outs, mass hysteria. Where have we heard that before?

As an observation I've observed 3 distinct positions on this issue that seem to have solidified:

1. Gun show promoters that prohibit armed customers are hypocrites
2. Gun show promoters are protecting customers from themselves.
3. I really don't care one way or the other.

While it may seem a bit adversarial I think that this perpetuates in the same fashion as gun control laws do. People won't get involved. the "I really don't care" crowd look at this and shrug. It's the same problem encountered when someone (a group or groups) try to get support for some sort of repeal of some sort of gun control. You get a bunch of "rah rah", but most people don't care. They won't get their hands dirty, and what's really frustrating are the people who interject their "yeah, but we should repeal xxxxxx law FIRST, then I'll help." I can understand the 'Brady enhancement' disagreement is different. But I'm saying when we have an effort already underway and gun owners just sit on the sidelines and spectate it's difficult to make any progress.

In many ways our divergent positions on the real gun show loophole ( the victim disarmament gun show loophole ) is a reflection of how we've gotten to where we are today and how we haven't seen a law PASSED to repeal a gun control law at the federal level in... Anybody? Bueller?

 

[Daemon688]

I know that our local gunshows have such rules. I asked whether or not they would set aside a safe location to rechamber my weapon via e-mail and they never responded. As a result I just ignored the sign and walked in. Sorry, but if I'm going somewhere with atleast 1k in my pockets I'm not going to leave my gun in the car.

 

[sacp81170a]

Rights are a two way street and if gun show vendors and promoters feel that their 800 dollar guns are worth more than the customers safety then I think there is something seriously wrong with their upbringing. We don't need friends like that.

Multiply that $800 by the 100 or so guns a dealer is likely to have on the table and maybe your perspective will change. We're talking about a very significant investment you see there. Seriously, if someone asked me to take merchandise worth that much out of a secure location and put it out in an area where I didn't have much control over security and then got mad because I wanted to take some kind of measure to prevent loss, I'd say no thanks.

Notice how most of the gun stores you go to don't have their guns lying out for you to touch? Notice that they're either stored in a locked glass case or on a rack well out of the customers' reach? Notice the security cameras? Do you feel as if they're treating you like a criminal or are they taking due precautions with their investment?

I would also respect any legal sign that clearly indicates that I am not welcome in attendance if I conceal carry. If it is illegal for me to carry, I will not carry. The legality of a sign varies from state to state.

The way the signs are worded here is perfectly legal. It's also perfectly legal for an establishment to prohibit concealed carry for the public while allowing concealed carry for their employees. It's called property rights.

Setting aside the legality , if a show in my state clearly indicates that its intent is to limit access to CCW holders ,I would also respect their wishes by not attending their show. That is both out of respect for them, and what I personaly consider a lack of respect for me, by them. A personal choice - mine to make.

Agreed. This is still a free country, to some degree at least. I respect your opinion and your courtesy. What irks me is that there are some here who declare that they will intentionally violate the legally posted signage and the wishes of the property owner. In this state, that will get your CCW revoked. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. I can't speak for other states.

What's apparent to me is that there are some people who disagree with your point of view. That hardly indicates they "have no clue" , or can't understand your point of view. I not only go to gun shows but have been a promoter in the past, and filled the roll of security as well. I understand perfectly what you are saying and what you believe to be justification for your point of view. I just don't agree with you - that simple !

It's apparent that you sir, do have a clue, and I respect that. Hats off. We can still disagree and be cordial. It's a catch 22 with respect to gun shows and the fine line that we have to tread between security, safety, and respect for others' rights. If we can't come to some agreement, then the anti's will win without having to pass any of their stupid laws. Sad but true.

 

[mr_blove]

The last gun show I went to was after I got my CCL and I carried there.

 

[subierex]

At the arena that hosts my local show, they don't allow it because the arena has a liquor license.

 

[SouthpawShootr]

Over the years, these things have become necessary due to the stupid stunts people pull. Several years back, a friend of mine was working a table at a show when BANG and he felt something impact the side of his pants near his ankle. Some dummy had come to the show looking for ammo, had either removed the zip tie or smuggled it in, then found ammo that he thought would "fit." He chambered it and, in practically the same motion pulled the trigger. Unfortunately, it was the correct ammunition. The impact my friend felt was splinters from a plywood box that he used to carry in his stuff. Missed his leg by inches. The guy was charged with discharging a firearm within city limits and the dealer was ejected from the show (probably for not watching his table close enough).

Another example. An LE buddy of mine decided he wanted to get is off-duty Glock worked on by an armorer at the show that we both knew. Walks right into the show with the gun concealed. Talks to the armorer about changing something, I forget what. He simply lifted his shirt and pulled the gun out of its holster. Anyway, for the said modification, the gun needs to be disassembled. The armorer dropped the mag and cleared the gun before starting and out popped a .45 Hydrashok. I had assumed my friend had either unloaded before leaving the car or decided against the mod at the last minute. I couldn't believe that he had handed the armorer a loaded weapon. Disaster averted by the armorer's strict adherence to safety rules.

Personally, I don't think anybody short of uniformed, on-duty LE should be allowed to enter these shows with loaded guns. But I do believe that the show promoters should provide a station for people legally carrying weapons to safely unload before entering and load up before leaving. Something that will absorb a negligent discharged.

Is it illegal to ignore the signs and carry anyway? Depends upon the state. In some states, it can be serious. Most times in VA, they tell you to get lost if you're caught (I've seen it happen a few times). Recently, I have seen a couple guys get written summons for tresspassing at local shows. Some promoters are now placing signs that violators will be prosecuted to the extent of the law, which probably means an unpleasant talk with city/county police and charged with tresspassing.

 

[Ala Dan]

Not Legal In Alabama

restricted to on duty (uniformed) officers only~!

 

[geophysicishooter]

$0.02 from the FNG

I was at a gun show yesterday for the first time since gettin my CHL and carrying pretty regularly. While I was inside I felt no less than amoung friends and safe. Gun handling was a little lax but secure in the knowledge that there was nearly no chance that any of those weapons was loaded, it bothered me far less than it would any other time. But once I left and was walking to my truck I realized I was holding somewhere near a grand worth of merchandise and naught but a gerber paraframe with which to defend against a possible attack and my hand was on that badboy everystep. I have to tell you that I was a little nervous walking out of there with an unloaded piece in my hand. I'd hate for someone to go and have to inform my parents that I was jumped and killed with a box of ammo and an unloaded .45 in my hand...

Realistically, I was probably in as little real danger as anyone normally is, but that's beside the point AND that was in Lubbock. In downtown Houston, I have a feeling my opinion would change (and drastically) where the possibility of someone lurking a block or two away from the George R Brown, just waiting for someone to walk out with a nice (fill in the blank) and jump, mug, rob, blag, whatever is dramatically higher.

I think everyone realises there's an issue here that probably does bear examination. What's up in the air is how to deal with it. If you insist on carrying and the venue insists that you disable your weapon as a requirement for entry, then never the tween shall meet. I don't think there's any reason you'd need to carry inside the show. That doesn't mean, imho, though that you should be required to traverse the parking lot or city blocks to the door with a paperweight on your hip and a wad of cash in your pocket. That's being unreasonable. But, if you're carrying and you want in, maybe there should be a privacy booth just outside the door that would let you unload before you come in and load right back up when you leave.. (?) That way you can carry right up to the point just before you enter, shop, buy, peruse, etc and when you leave, you can walk out to your vehicle arm to whatever degree you see fit or feel is necessary. There's no shortage of live ammo and loose magazines in those places and all it would take would be a deathwish and the nerve to carry it out to do something stupid inside which should be the only reason that a live round ever go off or even have the potential to go off in a gun show.

 

[sacp81170a]

I think everyone realises there's an issue here that probably does bear examination. What's up in the air is how to deal with it. If you insist on carrying and the venue insists that you disable your weapon as a requirement for entry, then never the tween shall meet. I don't think there's any reason you'd need to carry inside the show.

But I do believe that the show promoters should provide a station for people legally carrying weapons to safely unload before entering and load up before leaving. Something that will absorb a negligent discharged.

Totally agree. If I can sit there and put zip ties on guns that are going in for sale, I see no reason why we can't have a clearing barrel filled with sand or some kind of bullet trap for the benefit of those who come in with a concealed weapon and would prefer to leave with a concealed, loaded weapon.

Some folks walk in with literally thousands of dollars' worth of antique and collectible firearms to walk around and look for trades and deals. They have a perfect right to protect themselves while coming to and going from the shows, but it makes it really awkward and unsafe to have folks loading and unloading CCW weapons all over the place. Next time there's a show around, I'm going to make it a point to talk to the promoters about that. Seems like it would smooth over a bunch of hurt feelings and still make the exhibitors feel comfortable.

Edited to add:

It's just a thought, but if someone made conveniently portable bullet traps at a reasonable price I'd buy one to use at home for safety purposes. It would be great advertising to have your product being used at the entrance to a major gun show.

 

[22-rimfire]

I have to agree with sacp81170a on the carry issue at gun shows. The show is private property and if signs are posted that you are not allowed to carry a loaded firearm, you should respect their rights. I would expect you to respect my rules if you are in my house or business. What you do in your house is your business.

About once a year, you hear of a gun going off inside a gunshow. Fortunately, no one is usually hurt. I know of a case where a "disarmed" gernade was actually live and people were free to handle it inside a gunshow.

 

[cpaspr]

Smurfslayer -

(cpaspr):
He checked, his supervisor said no, it's an insurance issue. So I unholstered, dropped the mag and the chambered round, and he zipped it.

So far the only support I've seen for this assertion is a scanned .pdf of an agreement from a promoter which required all guns to be sold to be secured. Nothing was shown in the agreement which in any way prohibited armed people. I'm not saying they don't exist (insurance policies for gun shows requiring disarmed customers), I'm saying I've asked 2 promoters for it and got that pdf from a previous THR thread. I'm starting to think these "policies" are like leprechauns.

(cpaspr):
But face it, lots of people who might otherwise be smart just kinda get that stupid when there's that much sensory overload around (ie: guns, guns, and more guns!!!).

Permit holders can't be trusted. Blood in the aisles, parking lot shoot outs, mass hysteria. Where have we heard that before?

I didn't say permit holders can't be trusted. I said that lots of people who might be otherwise smart can do stupid things when sensory-overloaded. I've been swept at gun stores several times, and piss off the sales clerk every time I notify the jerk customer that I don't appreciate him pointing a gun at me. At gun shows there are considerably more people being swept and more potential for being swept by people who don't know, or care, that it's not nice to point guns at people.

Now that being said, yes, some permit holders really can't be trusted. Not that they're going to shoot up a school or a parking lot or anywhere else. Just that they aren't that concerned with where their finger is or where the gun is pointed most of the time. They bought a gun, attended a class (maybe), paid their fee and got their permit. But they don't really need the training, they've seen it all on tv. They're the ones who scare me. People who don't follow the four suggestions. And you can't tell me everyone is adament about safety (well, you can tell me, but I won't believe it) - I've seen way too many idiots.

 

[Bobo]

Gun shows in my area don't allow loaded guns. That's the main reason I have never been to a gun show, and don't plan to!

They have their right to disallow carrying on their property, and I can understand why - I also have the right to shop elsewhere!

 

[SouthpawShootr]

It's just a thought, but if someone made conveniently portable bullet traps at a reasonable price I'd buy one to use at home for safety purposes. It would be great advertising to have your product being used at the entrance to a major gun show.

They're out there. Just not all that common.

http://www.actiontarget.com/spt_bt_clearing_traps.html

This company doesn't list a cost, but I've seen these sorts of things run between $250 and $400.

http://www.letargets.com/html/traps.html

Here's one. Safe Direction pistol case: $225-250. Gun rug is bulletproof. Point the muzzle at the rug during unloading (I don't like this one so much). Protector LE hangun clearing trap: $224. This one shoud be provided by show promoters. Say 2 of them in private booths. Maybe station security or city/county LE close by (both to discourage stupid stunts and help or demonstrate the use of the trap - some jackass is bound to think that they should just walk up and fire the gun into the trap).

 

[sacp81170a]

Maybe station security or city/county LE close by (both to discourage stupid stunts and help or demonstrate the use of the trap - some jackass is bound to think that they should just walk up and fire the gun into the trap).

Sadly, I think you're probably correct.