Carry at gun shows.

[Riomouse911]

It wasn’t my intent.

It often isn’t.

Once the tangent spiral starts, its tough to stop it.

Stay safe.

 

[.455_Hunter]

You are correct, sir. None of those with whom I congregate consider ourselves superior to all other people nor ignore common decency.

Yup- We are courteous, polite, and armed. We don't conduct ourselves in any manner that could be mistaken for someone looking to cause trouble or instigate stupidity- this includes all aspects of life. As patrons, we place the ability to defend ourselves and our families above the wishes of corporate legal team's policy statements, who prefer us to be potential victims.

I guess it's just a bit personal for me:

My former boss's oldest son was a Freshman at Columbine in 1999.

I have held the 5.56 and .40 ammo components in my fingers that the bomb squad blew-up from James Holmes extra cache, plus discussed the incident with those responders first-hand.

My wife maintained her prescriptions at the Table Mesa King Soopers, and we shopped there with regularity. It's absolutely not out of the question one or more of us could have been there last year.

So yeah, I get a bit fluffed when chastised for not following the policy of a $500/hour legal consultant.

 

[Archie]

Here's an idea, Hunter. Get with your friends and organize and operate your own gun show.

 

[JohnKSa]

If I am placed into a position where I need my weapon in a "policy violation" area, I will be damn happy I had it.

Makes no sense. You would not be "placed into a position", you would DECIDE to place YOURSELF there. You keep making this sound like you have no choice as to whether to go to these places--as if you just end up there without your consent--as if you are forced to go there. That's just not reality. If you end up there it's because you DECIDED to go there.

You seem to think that you can choose to go onto someone else's property and then once you get there, your presence there invalidates any of their policies which you don't agree with. Doesn't work like that. If you don't like their policies don't go there. If you just can't stay away, then follow their policies.

We are courteous, polite, and armed.

It is neither courteous nor polite to go onto someone else's property and willfully violate their policies.

As patrons, we place the ability to defend ourselves and our families above the wishes of corporate legal team's policy statements, who prefer us to be potential victims.

That's a twisted version of reality.

You keep making the incorrect claim that these policies restrict your right to defend yourself. They do not for the simple reason that you are free to avoid places with such policies.

Here's reality.

You place your own self-proclaimed right to go anywhere you want and then set your own rules above the property rights of others and the rules they set for those on their property. You honestly believe that you can choose to go onto someone else's property and then, once you are there, your personal policies supersede the policies of the property owners. As if that weren't ludicrous enough, then you are able to say in the same breath that you are courteous and polite.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Makes no sense. You would not be "placed into a position", you would DECIDE to place YOURSELF there. You keep making this sound like you have no choice as to whether to go to these places--as if you just end up there without your consense--as if you are forced to go there. That's just not reality. If you end up there it's because you DECIDED to go there.

You seem to think that you can choose to go onto someone else's property and then once you get there, your presence there invalidates any of their policies which you don't agree with. Doesn't work like that. If you don't like their policies don't go there. If you just can't stay away, then follow their policies.It is neither courteous nor polite to go onto someone else's property and willfully violate their policies.That's a twisted version of reality.

You keep making the incorrect claim that these policies restrict your right to defend yourself. They do not for the simple reason that you are free to avoid places with such policies.

Here's reality.

You place your own self-proclaimed right to go anywhere you want and then set your own rules above the property rights of others and the rules they set for those on their property. You honestly believe that you can choose to go onto someone else's property and then, once you are there, your personal policies supersede the policies of the property owners. As if that weren't ludicrous enough, then you are able to say in the same breath that you are courteous and polite.

Sigh. You are free to do want you want. I am tired of arguing with you.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Here's an idea, Hunter. Get with your friends and organize and operate your own gun show.

No need. I will patronize existing shows as I see fit, just like you all should.

 

[Bazoo]

I think the polite thing to do, is ask for this thread to be closed.

 

[JohnKSa]

I will patronize existing shows as I see fit...

And that's the bottom line. You are going to go where you want and once you are there you are going to do what you want. Property owners' policies be damned--your self-proclaimed personal freedom to go where you want and do as you please trumps their right to make policies you disagree with. But at the same time you are making that clear, you will also the claim that you are courteous and polite. It's hard to understand how you can reconcile the obvious contradiction.

 

[daniel craig]

I just say ok, put the gun in the lock box in my car And go back inside. Personally I don't see the big deal or getting worked up about it.

 

[.455_Hunter]

And that's the bottom line. You are going to go where you want and once you are there you are going to do what you want. Property owners' policies be damned--your self-proclaimed personal freedom to go where you want and do as you please trumps their right to make policies you disagree with. But at the same time you are making that clear, you will also the claim that you are courteous and polite. It's hard to understand how you can reconcile the obvious contradiction.

Yup- We are not going to see eye-to-eye on this, so better put it to bed.

 

[JohnKSa]

I just say ok, put the gun in the lock box in my car And go back inside. Personally I don't see the big deal or getting worked up about it.

You clearly don't understand. Some people don't have to respect property rights. If they want to come into a business and make their own rules then the business owner is wrong if their rules are different. Where do business owners get off making policies that they don't like? It's not like being the property owner gives them special rights to make rules that apply on the premises! And, of course, people like that have the right to go where they want even if they know they will be "politely and courteously" violating the property owner's rules once they get there--that's just how it works.

We are not going to see eye-to-eye on this...

I like the way you put it. Like this is merely a difference of opinion--as if I like my bacon chewy, you like it crisp--we just don't see eye to eye. Of course that's not the situation at all.

1. Polite and courteous have accepted definitions. It's not a matter of opinion as to whether violating the property rights of a business is polite or courteous. That very obviously isn't polite or courteous. Period.

2. The policies of a business do not apply to you or restrict you unless you choose to go there. If you don't go there, you are not restricted--if you do not wish to be restricted you can avoid the restriction by avoiding the business. There's no room for debate there--it's not a matter of opinion. That's just fact.

3. It's not a matter of opinion as to whether businesses have the right to make policies (within the bounds of law) that apply to their patrons. They do have that right.

So yeah, of course we don't see eye to eye. We can't see eye to eye as long as you are using non-standard definitions for common words and making assertions that are obviously incorrect.

 

[WestKentucky]

There is a policy that the gun has to be unloaded and ziptied. There is not a policy addressing your choice to carry nail clippers. They sell ammo so I wouldn’t even worry about that.

Read between the lines. I generally go to the restroom as soon as I get there…

 

[.455_Hunter]

You clearly don't understand. Some people don't have to respect property rights. If they want to come into a business and make their own rules then the business owner is wrong if their rules are different. Where do business owners get off making policies that they don't like? It's not like being the property owner gives them special rights to make rules that apply on the premises! And, of course, people like that have the right to go where they want even if they know they will be "politely and courteously" violating the property owner's rules once they get there--that's just how it works. I like the way you put it. Like this is merely a difference of opinion--as if I like my bacon chewy, you like it crisp--we just don't see eye to eye. Of course that's not the situation at all.

1. Polite and courteous have accepted definitions. It's not a matter of opinion as to whether violating the property rights of a business is polite or courteous. That very obviously isn't polite or courteous. Period.

2. The policies of a business do not apply to you or restrict you unless you choose to go there. If you don't go there, you are not restricted--if you do not wish to be restricted you can avoid the restriction by avoiding the business. There's no room for debate there--it's not a matter of opinion. That's just fact.

3. It's not a matter of opinion as to whether businesses have the right to make policies (within the bounds of law) that apply to their patrons. They do have that right.

So yeah, of course we don't see eye to eye. We can't see eye to eye as long as you are using non-standard definitions for common words and making assertions that are obviously incorrect.

Dude- I am done with the debate. I have posted my opinion and you have posted yours. We have both been on this forum for over 15 years, and I am not expecting either one of us to change viewpoints.

Good day, Sir!

 

[JohnKSa]

I have posted my opinion and you have posted yours.

It's become common for people to try to dismiss any and every disagreement as merely being a difference of opinion. That can be true in some cases, but there are absolutely situations where it goes beyond that. A person can't make obviously incorrect claims and then just try to pretend there's nothing going on other than a difference of opinion. Or, I guess, they can, but it doesn't change reality.

 

[.455_Hunter]

It's become common for people to try to dismiss any and every disagreement as merely being a difference of opinion. That can be true in some cases, but there are absolutely situations where it goes beyond that. A person can't make obviously incorrect claims and then just try to pretend there's nothing going on other than a difference of opinion. Or, I guess, they can, but it doesn't change reality.

You are absolutely right about that one!

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

This age old topic is beyond ridiculous.

Supposed "pro gun" folks at a "gun show" want to disarm folks who could legally carry in any other crowded public venue.

Folks carrying aren't going to be whipping out their guns for any random reason so whats the problem? Keep it in the holster just like they were at Walmart and everything's gravey.

I haven't been to a local GS in decades. Most if not all have metal detectors or folks wanding people.

Its nothing personal towards GS's, its just the same protocol I follow for any private business. I don't patronize if I can't carry.

Just ridiculously ironic that "gunshows" are one of thos places I have to avoid.

ETA - never been in any LGS that screens folks from carrying. Ever.

 

[JohnKSa]

Supposed "pro gun" folks at a "gun show" want to disarm folks who could legally carry in any other crowded public venue.

It's got nothing to do with being pro- or anti-gun. It's about property rights. If a business has a no food or drink policy, they're not saying they are against people eating or drinking, they're just making a rule about their own premises--perhaps because they don't want to clean up the mess if someone is careless. If you think about it, much the same principle applies in this case, except the mess can be much, much worse.

Folks carrying aren't going to be whipping out their guns for any random reason so whats the problem?

As far as I can tell, this is one of those cases where if there were no problem, there would be no policy. The fact is that people do pull their carry guns out and sometimes end up discharging them and that's what has generated the policies. For whatever reason (and I think perhaps we can all think of some reasons why people might be more likely to show off their carry guns at a gun show than at WalMart) it does seem to be an issue.

I don't patronize if I can't carry.

That's certainly the polite and courteous approach!

 

[SchmidtRubin]

People comfortable with guns can be the most dangerous. I've been attending a show for more than 25 years which requires magazines to be removed and guns to be tied, no concealed carry. There was only one negligent discharge about 5 years ago because someone behind the table got to talking to someone about glock triggers. What does he do? He pulls out his conceal carry Glock from his bag with no magazine and pulls the trigger never having cleared the chambered. He lost his thumb and someone got hit.
Do you expect all the attendees to be as cautious as you? I don't have such high expectations of others. I don't care if you wont attend a show if you can't conceal carry. What are you protecting yourself from? You going to shoot someone for a negligent discharge? Are you going to stop a gun heist? Are you going to fire into a crowd? Even without attendees being armed Gun Shows aren't seen as soft targets for mass shooters. I can see going to or from your car as being the only risk for a robbery if there's no security on site.
As for gun ties, I heard of one case where some anti-gun goof ball got caught trying to insert a live round into a gun while no one was looking. I think they were trying to frame someone for negligence but they didn't know anything about calibers and they got spotted fumbling with the gun. That's a strong case for tieing guns. I don't like getting swept by guns at places where they're not tied and someone getting swept is a guarantee. If I'm at those places my guns are tied whether they're required or not. Zip ties are cheaper than a lawyer.

 

[DoubleMag]

I KNOW...let's not give any more new articles for the anti's, and, gun discharges and heaven forbid injuries are just that.... IN A PRIVATE VENUE THEY ARE TARGETING and WANT TO CLOSE, anyways!

Somewhere I read something about, ''a well regulated militia...'' which should/could also mean ''we allow these PRIVATE VENUES to make the rules for their few brief hours of operation.'' Private citizen, private rules. Which collectively keep others safe.

Let's promote them as safe and, getting SAFER

And in case anyone isn't awake yet this has nothing to do with meth labs? Did I read that correctly a few posts ago? Good grief!

 

[Hokkmike]

I have never been to a gun show where CC is prohibited. I can not remember a gun show where open carry was prohibited. Most ALL gun shows ask you to present, render safe, and zip tie the actions of guns being traded and/or sold.

I would politely disagree with Ky Dan in that weapons for personal protection NEVER have to be removed from their pocket/holster and are NOT a part of the commerce and exchange that take place at gun shows. And be friends KY? - Always !!!!!

 

[buck460XVR]

It is neither courteous nor polite to go onto someone else's property and willfully violate their policies.
That's a twisted version of reality.

Truth.

Part of what we are seeing is a prime example of a sense of entitlement. I see it all the time at the High School where I work. Biggest excuse kids use for breaking the rules is "it's a stupid rule!". Same kid uses it for multiple rules. I'd bet the same is true here. Folks that are rude and selfish are generally rude and selfish all the time. If they feel they have the right to break one rule because "it's stupid!" feel the same about any rule that imposes on them personally. Like the handicapped parking spots. Like the 15 items or less check-out. Like the neighbor that always parks his work truck in front of your house instead of his. Criminals don't stop at one crime, nor do poachers stop with one illegal deer. The sense of entitlement does not go away at one rule. I see the same bravado on the hunting forum where folks chant "SSS", because they feel they are entitled and they feel a regulation is "stupid!". Odds are, they "bend" a few more regs their way too.

 

[AlexanderA]

Yup- We are courteous, polite, and armed. We don't conduct ourselves in any manner that could be mistaken for someone looking to cause trouble or instigate stupidity- this includes all aspects of life. As patrons, we place the ability to defend ourselves and our families above the wishes of corporate legal team's policy statements, who prefer us to be potential victims.

I'm with Archie on this. In 50 years of attending gun shows -- some as a vendor -- I've seen enough attendees who were not "courteous and polite." A few jerks can ruin it for everyone. And a jerk with a loaded gun is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[AlexanderA]

Folks carrying aren't going to be whipping out their guns for any random reason so whats the problem? Keep it in the holster just like they were at Walmart and everything's gravey.

Unlike at a Walmart, there's a temptation at a gun show for a person carrying to take out their gun and show it to others. Or to try it in a new holster, etc. And indeed these things happened, before the "no loaded guns" rules, leading to unintentional discharges. That's why the rules were put into place!

I haven't been to a local GS in decades. Most if not all have metal detectors or folks wanding people.

It's obvious you haven't been to local gun shows recently. I've never seen metal detectors there. And it wouldn't make sense, because the detectors couldn't distinguish between loaded and unloaded guns. People carry unloaded guns into gun shows all the time with no problem. Just zip tie it at the door.

 

[KY DAN]

I have never been to a gun show where CC is prohibited. I can not remember a gun show where open carry was prohibited. Most ALL gun shows ask you to present, render safe, and zip tie the actions of guns being traded and/or sold.

I would politely disagree with Ky Dan in that weapons for personal protection NEVER have to be removed from their pocket/holster and are NOT a part of the commerce and exchange that take place at gun shows. And be friends KY? - Always !!!!!

We can always be friends.

These discussions are merely theoretical chess games, end of the day I know people will do what they feel is best regardless of other people's opinions.

 

[redneck2]

Folks carrying aren't going to be whipping out their guns for any random reason so whats the problem? Keep it in the holster just like they were at Walmart and everything's gravey

Uhhhh.....yeah. They do. Somewhat frequently

They either want to try a holster, or, they want to trade in a firearm. When I worked at the LGS I had a frequent customer that was using the range. His 9mm jammed. He came to the counter, pointed it right at my chest and started racking the slide, finger on the trigger. For all I knew there was a live round in the chamber.

I got swept by muzzles frequently.

I’ll try to make this simple for those that can’t seem to comprehend. I own my home. I have my own rules. If you disagree with my rules, then you are not welcome.

Suppose marijuana is illegal in your state. You have a strong aversion to drugs, particularly illegal drugs. But, I think weed is cool and should be legal. So, come to your living room and light up a joint. Is that OK? After all, it’s what I want