Where/how do you carry your spare magazine?

Could you guys please enlighten me, why this discussion drifted so far away from the OP's topic?
P.S. In my humble and amateur opinion, one (a lowly civilian rat, not worth even mentioning) carries a spare magazine/reload for the exact same reason he carries a gun - because he MIGHT need it, not because he WILL need it.

Reloading is not a secret art, available to only few chosen ones, Kleanbore - it's actually a quite simple and straight forward process, that one can master even without a special course, costing a lot of hard earned dollars. Whenever I carry, and that is every day, all day, I carry a spare magazine. And I'm not the tactical/Mall ninja/bearded low drag operator - I'm just a fat, bold, middle aged, casually dressed civilian. But I do practice reloading from time to time...

So, we should forget about reloads, as civilians, because we are not allowed to shoot at real armed people at the shooting range - am I getting you right?

I carry one on my belt in a magazine carrier. If I carry one in a pocket, there's nothing else in that pocket.

regardless of the carry piece, even a naa single action mini revolver or bond arms derringer, i always carry at least one pocket reload: magazine, speedstrip, speedloader. i’m not looking for any gunfight at all but an empty handgun in hand without ammo is a guaranteed losing position.

The biggest reason I carry a reload is because (God Forbid) if I ever have to use my gun the very first THING I'm going to do when it's over (assuming I'm not dead) is reload.

All I carry is a 380 LCP with a 7 shot mag. It’s tiny and fits in my pocket nicely with any sort of pants . That second mag just floats free on my pocket about as big as a stick of gum so it’s not even noticed. I’m a believer in what the Drill Sargent one told me, “ better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it”.
It’s well established that most encounters are quick and close but what if it happens to be the odd incident. I don’t want to be that guy. I might feel different if I had something like a Glock 19 but then you have a much bulkier gun to deal with. Its all a trade off…

Kleanbore said:

The other pistol in my pocket, which I carry for a different reason, serves that need for me.

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Kleanbore said:

Yes, if he carries one. he surly does so in the belief hat he might need it. Has he considered whether or how he might be able to use it?

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LOL.

Kleanbore said:

Of course.

The issue is the utility--the extent to which one can make use of it when someone is moving in at five meters per second, and the accepted legal justification for producing a weapon is based on a two and a half second draw time. That leaves very little time forgetting the gun into action.

Reloading? Again, try it in some varied realistic FoF exercises.

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Like I said before, there's a first time for everything....

Craig_VA said:

For those who have not watched the videos, please understand that Correia does not say civilians should not carry spare mags. In fact, he specifically says to carry them if you wish. He does say that in tens of thousands of actual incidents, he has never seen a civilian use a reload before the incident ends.
Mas, on the other hand, does recommend carrying mags just in case one of the conditions he discusses take place.
Melding both viewpoints, it is all about playing the odds about what you need to deal with, just in case. Where do you put your priorities for carry gear and for training?
And keep in mind that he posits the role of the civilian defender is to break contact with the threat, in contrast to the law enforcement mission to pursue and stop or capture the threat. Thus, John is all about LEOs carrying multiple spare mags and practicing regularly doing reloads.

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The active self protection guy was an ex-navy electronics technician who is now a full time blogger. He has no duty experience in sidearm carry and pontificates on subjects in my opinion way above his personal experience(since its essentially non existant). But thats the power of youtube I guess.

trekker73 said:

The active self protection guy was an ex-navy electronics technician who is now a full time blogger.

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and firearms instructor.
There: fixed it for you.

trekker73 said:

He has no duty experience in sidearm carry and pontificates on subjects in my opinion way above his personal experience(since its essentially non existant). But thats the power of youtube I guess.

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Here you go with that BS again. Do you ever stop? You're just as tiresome as the guy who's every post is about how you should carry nothing less than a full size duty pistol.

bdickens said:

and firearms instructor.
There: fixed it for you.

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Firearms instructor is one thing.

Pontificating on incidents and tactical analysis (with no operational experience) was the point I was making.

Here you go with that BS again. Do you ever stop? You're just as tiresome as the guy who's every post is about how you should carry nothing less than a full size duty pistol.

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Not sure who you have me mixed up with. I barely post on this forum and have never spoken with you before.

And sorry, just too long in the military to worship some electronics tech who has never drawn a pistol.I'd rather learn off those who ''did the job'' rather than some guy who ''studied others who did the job''...

bdickens said:

firearms instructor.
There: fixed it for you.


Here you go with that BS again. Do you ever stop? You're just as tiresome as the guy who's every post is about how you should carry nothing less than a full size duty pistol.

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trekker73 said:

Firearms instructor is one thing.

Pontificating on incidents and tactical analysis (with no operational experience) was the point I was making.



Not sure who you have me mixed up with. I barely post on this forum and have never spoken with you before.

And sorry, just too long in the military to worship some electronics tech who has never drawn a pistol.I'd rather learn off those who ''did the job'' rather than some guy who ''studied others who did the job''...

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Either the data is valid or it isn't. Either John Corriea's research methodology is flawed or it's not.

You don't have to be Alvin York to authoritatively state that you have watched thousands of videos of Citizen self-defense and never yet seen a citizen reload.

Right before Desert Storm my unit was on the list to go. We had a second lieutenant who was detailed to go on ahead and make arrangements for our billeting when we got there. The war ended while he was making those arrangements. He never left Riyadh. To my knowledge he never heard a single shot fired in anger. He came back from Riyad sporting a combat patch.

There's a lesson in there if you look for it

trekker73 said:

I'd rather learn off those who ''did the job'' rather than some guy who ''studied others who did the job''...

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That someone managed to survive through sheer dumb luck doesn't mean that he knows what he's doing. And that someone knows what he's doing doesn't mean he knows how to teach it.

Fact is, only those who have studied can teach effective lessons.

Since you know so much, perhaps you can enlightenen the rest of us pogues as to the many flaws in Mr. Corriea's analyses. Seriously. Break it down for us. Tell us where he's wrong.

Just my preference fellas. Not interested in internet celebs pontirficating on matters way above their pay grade. He reminds me of the fellas who anaylse body language. The

Kleanbore said:

The idea that one can learn about the use of deadly force from one's own experience falls apart in the initial analysis.

The problem lies in the numbers--in the number of available incidents, and the number of variables.

That's why simulation is so valuable.

In the case of defensive shooing, the widespread use of dash cams, body cams, and security cameras gives us a much larger data set--which is presented to us via YouTube.

The instructors study others who "did the job".

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Your explaining the basic tenets on realistic training, which no one refuted. As to presentation on data, I would agree youtube can be useful. However when you have people with no operational experience interpreting it, to me there is way too much potential for contextual error. Again why I prefer you learn off fellas who did the job, and watch less youtube.

Night Rider said:

Either the data is valid or it isn't. Either John Corriea's research methodology is flawed or it's not.

Right before Desert Storm my unit was on the list to go. We had a second lieutenant who was detailed to go on ahead and make arrangements for our billeting when we got there. The war ended while he was making those arrangements. He never left Riyadh. To my knowledge he never heard a single shot fired in anger. He came back from Riyad sporting a combat patch.

There's a lesson in there if you look for it

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The lesson is for weapons drills and procedures your Lt is a good training delivery chance. But would you choose a former electronics techinician with no operational experience to delevope that training material or ''methodology'' in the first place?

Yes or no?

Electronics tech in the navy with no personal sidearm experience now teaching advanced analysis and'' train the trainer ''courses to ground combat units?

If you think thats a great idea, Id say its lucky your unit didnt see any action.

bdickens said:

That someone managed to survive through sheer dumb luck doesn't mean that he knows what he's doing. And that someone knows what he's doing doesn't mean he knows how to teach it.Fact is, only those who have studied can teach effective lessons.
Since you know so much, perhaps you can enlightenen the rest of us pogues as to the many flaws in Mr. Corriea's analyses. Seriously. Break it down for us. Tell us where he's wrong.

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You are conflating zero training with my comments, which is not what I said. Nor did I say he cant instruct. Again Id just rather learn from a trainer who has been there. Not interested in studying the ''methodology'' of an electronics guy who collects videos and spends his time doing weekend firearms courses with zero duty experience.

Sorry to upset you fellas, you are obviously subscribers and blog devotion is a powerful force.

Kleanbore said:

That's why simulation is so valuable.

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Simulation only gets you so far. I have seen it happen before, in combat multiple times. I have seen guys train for war 2 or 3 years break while a private fresh out of basic does better under fire. Training only gets you so far, after that it is up to you. When I lead patrols in Afghanistan, I liked to stack more than half the unit with guys who had been shot at before and over the guys that ran/graduated our gunfighter school stateside. Until you have been shot at, you don't know what you will do. And it is embarrassing if you spend all that time and money training in IDPA and other shooting sports just to freeze up.

As far as I know, Rob Pincus has never been in a firefight. But he still likes to bounce training ideas off folks who have "been there."

Kleanbore said:

In some things--air combat, ASW, and missile defense, for example--it's as far as one can get before one has to do it that one time.

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Except I am talking about just self defense shootings. We don't have to be in a nuclear war to know our counter battery folks (whom I have also trained with) are better than their contemporaries. But advanced warfare lessons do not apply neatly to DGU.

Kleanbore said:

We do not find LEOs who have had enough real experience a "firefight"--in the use of deadly force--to really learn anything.

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Which is why military units do LEO partnerships and joint training. I don't think there is a single major metro area SWAT along the east coast I did not train with at some point in my Army time. Boston, DC, Atlanta, Miami etc. They learned ideas and tactics from us about how the military does urban fighting. And we got ideas from them too. Sometimes they were even useful ones.