Data requests

Its not like data is hard to find. Every powder manufacturer makes their data available for free unless I missed something. The individual books from bullet manufacturers do cost money and thats the rub.
Alot of folks dont want to spend money on the book, and will come ask questions about specific bullets. I can understand that at times. I think alot of this is because people dont understand that they can use data from a similar bullet and or dont want to have to do the work up.
They also fail to understand what works good in rifle A wont necessarily work well in rifle B in their quest to avoid the work up.

Personally? I rely almost 100% on powder manufacturer data and a load work up based on that data even if Im not shooting the same bullet they list.

Bcwitt said:

Ive spent a small fortune in reloading equipment. Im sure most of you have. Is it just me, or when some idiot that is too cheap to buy a reloading manuel (something you have no business reloading without) requests data for a very ubiquitous cartridge, you want to tell him to.... I dont think there is value in using my experience & resources helping a lazy cheap@zz.
Im pretty sure im not the only one. Thoughts?

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you got a recipe for .375 H&H? my reloading manual broke

Mark_Mark said:

you got a recipe for .375 H&H? my reloading manual broke

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Hodgdon data center has many "recipes" for 375 H&H Magnum - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

What a round! 300 gr bullet at 2500 fps.

I am just getting interested in 350 Legend pushing 147 gr 9mm bullet at 2400 fps ... Thinking about using RMR 147 gr FP MW? (It's Axis II's fault)

When I started loading in earnest for the .348WCF, I had issues finding current printed data. The only source was, oddly enough, from Hornady, one of the few that still make .348 bullets... so I spent the money just for that specific data. Once Al Gore invented the internet, I was able to supplement that data with other data I was able to find online... through forums and other sources. All I had to do was ask, and helpful folks linked or sent me data... and I do the same, now.

I do wonder, sometimes, when we see a basic question about a common cartridge and bullet. It's possible a noob reloader is just looking for validation, or they are, as you mentioned, hung up on finding data for their specific bullet. Often enough, they are so new they don't really know how to frame their question properly. I see it constantly... the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. They are asking.

Charlie98 said:

I do wonder, sometimes, when we see a basic question about a common cartridge and bullet. It's possible a noob reloader is just looking for validation, or they are, as you mentioned, hung up on finding data for their specific bullet. Often enough, they are so new they don't really know how to frame their question properly. I see it constantly... the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. They are asking.

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I taught myself to reload 40 years ago by reading BOOKS. First I checked out of the library was Phil Sharp's Complete Book of Handloading (Someone subsequently stole it.), ABCs of Handloading and other recognized PUBLISHED sources. Then I got, and still have Lyman's 45th edition, and each upgrade since. I use the online powder and bullet mfgr's downloaded specific data now. Anything else, process or load data, is suspect, especially what is on the I'net. It is NOT tested safe published data. There are legitimate reasons for asking questions hereand Ive never seen anyone not try and help, but for the most basic questions, it is obvious the person asking has not invested the time to help themselves. They buy the equipment and components (with luck) and want jump right in. Without investing in reading and UNDERSTANDING the front part of a loading manual they don't understand why certain things are done or how small changes are a health hazard to themselves and maybe a loved one. Don't buy Sierra, Speer, or (can't remember the name of the 2 volume brown books) to start. They are good books, but they are too technical and have a lot of unneeded info for a beginner. They are like using a micrometer where a dial caliper is needed.

I've found that I seldom have the exact bullet / powder / brass combination listed. Bullet is the biggest problem; close weight in correct type (lead or jacketed) but a little common sense interpolation (I know 40 yrs worth) works.

I learned reloading the simple way. I read the instructions that came with an RCBS die set. RockChucker press, die set, scale, powder funnel, and Lyman's 45th Reloading Manual (1975) was a package deal. Stupid me threw the manual away in early 1990's because it was falling apart, Hornady and Accurate Arms had all the data I needed (mistake #2),

Engineer1911 said:

I learned reloading the simple way. I read the instructions that came with an RCBS die set. RockChucker press, die set, scale, powder funnel, and Lyman's 45th Reloading Manual (1975) was a package deal. Stupid me threw the manual away in early 1990's because it was falling apart, Hornady and Accurate Arms had all the data I needed (mistake #2),

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Here's a reprint of the Lyman #45
https://cornellpubs.com/product/2953/

I have one purchased from Cornell. Good business, good reprints. A great deal of obsolete and out of print information available from them.

Hooda Thunkit said:

Here's a reprint of the Lyman #45
https://cornellpubs.com/product/2953/

I have one purchased from Cornell. Good business, good reprints. A great deal of obsolete and out of print information available from them.

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I found the Lyman manual for $1 new, at a USPSA match, guy was unloading everything $1 each. Best buy of 2019!

49th edition

Bcwitt said:

Ive spent a small fortune in reloading equipment. Im sure most of you have. Is it just me, or when some idiot that is too cheap to buy a reloading manuel (something you have no business reloading without) requests data for a very ubiquitous cartridge, you want to tell him to.... I dont think there is value in using my experience & resources helping a lazy cheap@zz.
Im pretty sure im not the only one. Thoughts?

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I usually don't respond to threads requesting information typically found in reloading manuals. The best answers to common reloading questions can usually be found therein. If I suggest looking for the answer in a reloading manual, someone will accuse me being snarky or rude. So I usually remain silent.

Bcwitt said:

Ive spent a small fortune in reloading equipment. Im sure most of you have. Is it just me, or when some idiot that is too cheap to buy a reloading manuel (something you have no business reloading without) requests data for a very ubiquitous cartridge, you want to tell him to.... I dont think there is value in using my experience & resources helping a lazy cheap@zz.
Im pretty sure im not the only one. Thoughts?

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If the load info is ubiquitous (your word), why do I need a book? I can read a thousand load recipes from a book, just like I can read a thousand cookie recipes from cookbooks. But until I eat the cookies, how will I know if they are worth the effort?

I have a couple reloading manuals. What a waste of money. I use internet data 99.9% of the time.

I bought “ABC’s of Reloading” recently…wish I’d spent the $ on more bullets or powder instead.

I guess if we think the internet may break, it’s good to have the book, that’s a plan. But if that happens, the book really isn’t gonna matter.

Myself, I want real advice from seasoned reloaders! I’m 60 years young and readily share my life experience, good and bad, with others who need and want it. Book learning is limited to the info the authors willing to share.

There is no such thing as a complete reloading manual. You probably need to buy a dozen to cover every load. But why? Sure, 40 years ago, this was the way. But today, it isn’t…

I read books…I like books…but not really into reference books. The only instruction manual I really enjoy reading is the Good Book…that one is the Book most worthy of buying and reading daily.

If you don’t want to give up your hard earned knowledge of what works and what does not, fine. But don’t knock someone looking for some mentoring from seeking wisdom beyond what someone wrote in a manual.

Buzznrose said:

If the load info is ubiquitous (your word), why do I need a book? I can read a thousand load recipes from a book, just like I can read a thousand cookie recipes from cookbooks. But until I eat the cookies, how will I know if they are worth the effort?

I have a couple reloading manuals. What a waste of money. I use internet data 99.9% of the time.

I bought “ABC’s of Reloading” recently…wish I’d spent the $ on more bullets or powder instead.

I guess if we think the internet may break, it’s good to have the book, that’s a plan. But if that happens, the book really isn’t gonna matter.

Myself, I want real advice from seasoned reloaders! I’m 60 years young and readily share my life experience, good and bad, with others who need and want it. Book learning is limited to the info the authors willing to share.

There is no such thing as a complete reloading manual. You probably need to buy a dozen to cover every load. But why? Sure, 40 years ago, this was the way. But today, it isn’t…

I read books…I like books…but not really into reference books. The only instruction manual I really enjoy reading is the Good Book…that one is the Book most worthy of buying and reading daily.

If you don’t want to give up your hard earned knowledge of what works and what does not, fine. But don’t knock someone looking for some mentoring from seeking wisdom beyond what someone wrote in a manual.

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I agree! Internet is BOMB!

and Books are expensive. Example:
The Colt single action revolvers: A shop manual--volumes I & II

$55 on Amazon

I started with my local library about 11 years ago. I was able to read the ABCs, make copies/photos of the relevant info and found 2 or 3 other manuals, also copies and photos. I put these, plus the little data sheet that came with Lee dies, pinned on a board above my bench with highlighter on loads I wanted to try. Those were my early beginnings.

Since then I discovered Handloader magazine and bought copies if it had info I wanted. I've bought 2 manuals and a few caliber specific manuals, but once I dialed in my loads, I haven't spent much time experimenting with different loads. I load for economy and goals of the round. If I can safely get the speed I want with 5 grains of Titegroup, why use 9 grains of Unique, or 12 of 2400, etc. I get case size and fill, but....economy.

I don't mind people asking, but will point to specific manuals or magazine articles, not telling specific data. I'll also point them to their local library, where they should be able to get the relevant info.

Buzznrose said:

I have a couple reloading manuals. What a waste of money. I use internet data 99.9% of the time.

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Yikes.

I suspect the underlying reason for a lot of 'requests' as you identify is the (unreal) hope someone has a magical load that will produce a .00001" group in any rifle, under any conditions, with any sort of firing problem with any light conditions.

The person has not yet grasped rifles are all different. What works in yours or mine does not work - without question - in another rifle.
Even powder choices are different. I admit no rifle chambered in a 'major' cartridge will be more satisfactory using far too fast or far too slow powder.
Possibly, some lots of bullets do not group as well. But some rifles just do better with heavier or lighter bullets. No telling from here.

But what do I know?

I use three different references for each new cartridge, bullet or powder. 1; manuals, I have purchased older manuals at estate sales, yard sales and auctions and use those as well as newer manuals I've purchased. 2; Powder manufactures, they have more up to date info than my manuals. 3; Bullet manufactures, they have good info and hopefully they list the best choices. After researching I make a list of the powders I want to try with the lowest starting and the highest max load listed and then since I try not load max I divide by 6 and create 5 loads dropping the highest for a load workup. The way I do it is not the quickest or easiest but I trust it more than any 1 reference, I don't trust internet loads given by individuals without looking it up farther

If you guys are paranoid of the internet and publish data… Buy Factory Ammo

It really depends on why people are asking.

In the past, I've asked for advice on certain loads. Either looking for suggestions on what might be particularly accurate, or what is commonly loaded because various sources do not agree with each other. This is despite having 4 manuals, and all the resources available from powder and bullet manufacturers.

Every time I do this, and seek some knowledge from experienced members here, I get at least one guy grumbling about how I need to go buy a reloading manual. And those type of comments are far more annoying to me than people asking for help.

Books are fun, if you like to read.

I once took a correspondence course to learn computer coding. It made very little sense to me until I got some one on one, then it started to fall into place. No one learns to drive a car just from a book.

There's nothing wrong with helping your neighbor. While not a believer myself, I do subscribe to many of the ethics labeled Christian.

rdnktrkr said:

I use three different references for each new cartridge, bullet or powder. 1; manuals, I have purchased older manuals at estate sales, yard sales and auctions and use those as well as newer manuals I've purchased. 2; Powder manufactures, they have more up to date info than my manuals. 3; Bullet manufactures, they have good info and hopefully they list the best choices. After researching I make a list of the powders I want to try with the lowest starting and the highest max load listed and then since I try not load max I divide by 6 and create 5 loads dropping the highest for a load workup. The way I do it is not the quickest or easiest but I trust it more than any 1 reference, I don't trust internet loads given by individuals without looking it up farther

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Before I bought and used data bought at an estate sale, I’d find out what happened to the previous owner.

CQB45ACP said:

Before I bought and used data bought at an estate sale, I’d find out what happened to the previous owner.

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probably high cholesterol and old age. mix with nutritional deficiency

Mark_Mark said:

probably high cholesterol and old age. mix with nutritional deficiency

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I’m thinking high cholesterol also results from bad load data.

I use the manuals, I've not used any notes unless they were written in the manuals, recently I purchased a box of books with 5 manuals, 2 copies of "The ABCs of Reloading", that I have already given to new reloaders, for the minimum bid. BUT I would trust hand written notes in the margins of a reloading manual more than loads from the internet.

CQB45ACP said:

I’m thinking high cholesterol also results from bad load data.

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I never had a Bad load data, just weak. just right, and too hot

I asked about a powder a while back, and if anyone has used it in any cartridges. I got an answer, Now I know where in MY manuals to look...I thanked the respondents for their time. Honestly, I just wanted to join in the fun. I know this post was not about me, I just had an experience to share. Thanks.