Cowboy Home Defense

For home defence I can't imagine me using anything other than a pistol of some sort. Quick and maneuverable.

If I had to go by your criteria I would choose a Mare's leg:


Also short and maneuverable. Trying to efficiently handle a long gun indoors in tight quarters has never made sense to "me".

I would go with a Winchester 1873 in .44-40. Why? A nice big .43 caliber hole, relatively quiet as they go, quick to work the action, stability for accurate shooting… and I already own the gun. You could do a lot worse.

You might be able to do a little better, too, with an AR or PCC fitted with a red dot. I

JShirley said:

Not by experts.

No, it was because they were cheap and available. Shotguns are only the "best" choice for people who shoot enough shotgun sports, that they're much faster with a shotgun than anything.

A modern carbine is much easier to learn to shoot well, hits decisively, and can easily address multiple targets in much less time than shotgun shooters can. And, it's more versatile, being able to work just as well at 5 yards as 50 or 100. The big difference was, until fairly recently, a decent shotgun was much cheaper than a decent modern carbine. It's been proven, ad nauseam, that shotgun rounds capable of stopping a threat also go through a lot of structural material, with the sole exception of number four buckshot. There are several lightweight expanding 5.56 mm rounds that penetrate even less structural material then number four buck, while still hitting decisively.

John

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In the following video, expert Paul Harrell, USMC (and fun guy; shooters use him as their "go to" guy; great dry sense of humor, has over 750 followers), shoots through two interior walls, plus an exterior wall using 5.56 hollow points out of a carbine. The result is exploding water bottles outside his test "house". This part of the video occurs after eight minutes (8 minutes, 20 seconds; this video got 243,653 views). The ammunition he used as frangible rounds was Hornady "Critical Defense". Of course the FMJs in 5.56 go through the interior walls and exterior wall, duh!; but it was amazing to watch the hollow point frangible rounds do the same thing, i.e. massively over-penetrate. If you do not wish frangible 5.56 bullets to penetrate interior walls, you MUST hit the intruder every time -- if you miss, then the frangible rounds go through walls like a hot knife through butter.

He then discusses the use of shotguns for self defense.



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d2wing said:

Lots of gun questions and choices are based in fantasy or nostalgia and may not be the most rational choice. Fewer of us would buy guns if we didn't have romantic notions, myself included. Imagined scenarios along with SHTF is long on fantasy and short on realistic analysis in my opinion. Chances of it really mattering in real life are so small I don't think it matters. Even if the OP's home is invaded by multiple perps, chances are a double barrel shotgun would send them running on sight. I still would choose something else though. As a veteran I prefer more firepower and something more versatile and reliable just in case.

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I'll never find the article, but I once read that if a burglar simply hears someone rack the slide of a shotgun, he most often decides to betake himself elsewhere. Doesn't take much of an IQ to make that decision. Happened to news reporter Dan Rather.

Dan Rather was upstairs and heard prowlers downstairs, so he racks the slide of his shotgun. Prowlers instantly leave in haste. Most home break-ins result in NO shots fired. Don't count on that, yet a perp. has to be dusted or beyond drunk to want to take-on an armed homeowner.
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Here's the original post.

Mr. Mosin said:

Given the choice between a lever action rifle chambered in a pistol caliber cartridge (take your pick, I'm going with .357 Magnum) vs something along the lines of a hammerless coach gun in 12ga; which would you select for home defense in the modern era ?

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Again, not even a hint of AR-15. In fact, were it not for the word "cartridge" in the OP, there would even be an "A" and an "R" situated next to each other. Yet here they all come, dying to maintain relevancy and explain why we all need a semi-auto rifle and a 30-round magazine to have any hope of defending ourselves in our own homes. Because defending ones self in their home is different now than it used to be, right? I mean, who wouldn't want to spray 30 rounds of "five-five-six", as quickly as possible, around the inside of their domicile?

35W

Might wanna see a doc to be sure your blood pressure meds are on track.

The reality is simple - leverguns were the pinnacle of defensive small arms 150 years ago. They’re not today. The OP asked about coach guns and lever guns, and neither are a proper options for the task in 2022 and beyond - or really, WWII and beyond… Doesn’t have anything to do with AR’s themselves, other than the fact a defensive AR can be bought for half the price of a levergun these days, so we see more of them being sold in market.

The only defense for the thought experiment is whimsy, as prescribed by the OP on page 2:

Mr. Mosin said:

simply, like most internet forum questions, speculation for the sheer heck of it.

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So we can speculate about the best solution for slaying dragons, or point out the impracticality of the thought experiment. When my 5 year old niece tells me she saw a unicorn in the woods down by the creek, we go investigate together for the sake of childlike whimsy. If my 9 year old son said he saw Bigfoot, we wouldn’t. I expect our OP is a bit more mature than 9yoa.

I love leverguns, and find whimsical excuses to use them as often as I can. But I damned sure wouldn’t risk my life or that of my wife or child just to pretend I’m John Wayne or Lucas McCain… it’s bad enough so many folks play cowboy in so many other embarrassing ways - but risking their own life for whimsy doesn’t make sense.

Both XX and YY are poor options for the task and playing cowboy invites unwarranted mortal risk into your defensive strategy.

You’re welcome.

Couldn't resist

Given the confines of the concept I am unsure my choice. I have hunted more birds, squirrels and rabbits with a single shot than anything. I’m comfortable with a shotgun. Very. But my first rifle was a 39a golden Mountie and I can tear up something pretty fierce with one. Inside of my house I have no doubt with either I am effective. Let’s just hope I never need to find out the truth. I would like to acquire a 20 inch coach gun one day. I’d take either I think. But shot guns just seem right. I keep a cut down 20 gauge mossberg in a closet so I guess it’s shotgun.

There are so many better options than either. This whole thread is folly and fantasy. Self defense is not a fantasy and playing these types of fantasy scenarios as if they were valid questions is dangerous nonsense, pure and simple.

Chastising people for pointing this out is delusional.

silicosys4 said:

There are so many better options than either. This whole thread is folly and fantasy. Self defense is not a fantasy and playing these types of fantasy scenarios as if they were valid questions is dangerous nonsense, pure and simple.

Chastising people for pointing this out is delusional.

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I guess you all don't get it.

It's like one of those threads asking 'if you only had one pistol' or 'what's the best revolver barrel length.' It's a 'situational opinion' question, based on a theoretical question. Geeezzzz...

Training and firearm familiarity come first, technology comes second. One plus to a long gun in interior home defense is when you confront an invader and stick the barrel in his face or midsection. Then there's the combat mindset. And people see an SD/home invasion situation as a firefight.

This is like a Superman vs. the Hulk on a comic book forum. Just fantasy play. I have a suggestion - if you were dead serious about the two choices and they were not because of some apocalyptic, end of the world and only choice scenario - try it.

Try running a coach gun in a house defense scenario under realistic pressure. I have at a national intense training event. They threw this in just because. You are in bed. To simulate being in bed clothes or naked you are a sheet poncho over you, so nowhere to carry anything. You get a coach gun and box of loose 12 gauge. Slugs and bird shot mixed for fun. Several opponents are in the house and you have to go get them. Yes, you might hunker down in the real world but this was to make you move and run the gun. It sucks. Targets around the corners, some automated to pop out at you. Shoot, carry the damn box, reload, it sucks!

I see one guy at the end of the hall, bang - another to the side - bang - Surprise one pops out to my side! So I butt stroked the damn dummy. The SO - says - well that works. Lesson - not a good gun unless it's some real weird scenario, I'm dirt poor, etc.

The lever gun - watched folks try to run them in carbine competition (usually AR). New folks short stroke, screw up the lever and come up with unfixable in crisis time jam. Unless, you train your butt off with this gun - it's a bad choice. It's not one shot at a deer with multiple opponents. Same with pump guns - folks screw them up if not practiced.

Long story short - yeah, fantasy post on the Internet. Would you rather have a AR or a squad of highly trained, rolling volley Japanese match lock riflemen with you? Watch Ran and you will see they could roll out the rounds.

If I couldn't reach any of my forty-odd semi-auto firearms then I might reluctantly reach for one of my four lever guns or two double-barrels... .

Like it! Thanks for the laugh.

Dang people, this isn't that hard. OP, I would use a lever gun in 45 Colt with a 16 inch barrel. See how easy that was?

African professional hunters generally prefer double rifles for dangerous game because they know they can count on two shots for sure. I would choose the double barreled coach gun for the same reason. I guess some of you have never had a lever rifle jam. I have.

Carry extra shotshells in one of those elastic carriers on the buttstock, just in case you are invaded by an army.

Remember to have your sound system cued up to play Bonnie Tyler - as you go off to double barrel battle. That will scare the bad guys away.

I do like those Pedersoli Howdah pistols. Might have a brace of the 410/LC versions by the bedside along with mah boots and spurs.

When we did the exercise, no elastic carriers. You had to run around with the box and by feel determine if you had a slug or birdshot. Theoretically, you were to load the bird shot for the close in and slugs for far away down range. Like I said, this wasn't realistic but made to push us with this gun.

Rest of the training exercises, Glocks or other semis, ARs, AKs - etc. Reactive targets - fun. Some J frame FOF.

Just got an interesting email from Ammoland about a new lever action rifle. It's made by FightLite Industries and it is the Herring Multi-Caliber Model 2024 Lever Action rifle. First I have heard of this company and it's rifle. It apparently uses a number of AR 15 components in it's design.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...tm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

FightLite Industries is well-known in the industry for some truly remarkable firearms innovations like the MCR belt-fed upper receiver, SCR 5.56 pistol, and of course their extensive lineup of aftermarket parts and accessories. FightLite is now excited to announce the launch of its brand-new multi-caliber lever action rifle, the Herring Model 2024. Unlike other lever action rifles, the Herring Model 2024 features a purpose-built modernized design complete with AR-15 magazine compatibility, and a whole host of both rifle and pistol calibers to choose from depending on what you’d like to use the rifle for.

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Interesting concept for ban states. I wonder how it fits their various laws. Obviously, the mag limits will apply.

GEM said:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...tm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss



Interesting concept for ban states. I wonder how it fits their various laws. Obviously, the mag limits will apply.

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I am gonna quote one of the comments at the article:

“I want to hate it, but I can’t”.

I think it would be pretty cool, actually. Not sure I’ll be ordering one but it may be a big hit…I sure hope so.