JBT's in my neighborhood. Grrr!!!

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I don't think i would fault the officers for running his ID while they held onto his gun, you never know what kind of psychos are running around out there. It should've ended at "sorry for the trouble, you just looked a little conspicuous.. can't be too careful."

I'm all for open carry rights and think it should be as socially acceptable as chewing gum, but I do get a little wierded out when I see somone walking down the street that is openly packing heat and I don't see a badge. Until I can be carrying I think i'll always feel a bit uneasy about that stuff.
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I would certainly fault the officers for running his ID. If open carry is legal, they had ZERO right to stop him since he was not doing anything illegal. So what if there are psychos out there? Psychos drive cars, too -- does that make it legal to stop every car and ask the driver if he's a psycho? Psychos sometimes poison people. Can an LEO take you aside the enxt time you buy rat poison at the hardware store and grill you for half an hour about who you plan to kill with it, on the grounds that psychos sometimes use rat poison?

I don't think so.

And since when does selling beer in cans or bottles constitute "serving" alcohol? "Serving" is dispensing into an open cut or glass and handing it to to the customer (or placing it on the bar or table in front of them) for on-site consumption. "Selling" is not "serving."

I would not be overly careful about who to complain to. Send the same letter to everybody you can think of.
 
While there may or may not be an issue about the individual open carrying a gun, the officers should have backed off when they determined that he did have a license, and as such could carry either openly or concealed under Ga. statutes.

Law enforcement officers are empowered to enforce laws, not their opinions. While the individual with the gun might have shown bad judgement, the officers were obligated to know the law, and what it did or didn't require. They are also required to respect a valid license issued by the state. If they don't do so and get away with it the licence becomes worthless.

If I was the person with the gun I would be looking for a lawyer, and I would be the one who pushed it. The responsibility doesn't lie with a witness.
 
They also claimed that since one of his magazines was marked "law enforcement," that it was illegal (yet they returned it to him).
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Typical untrained, ignorant of the law they are trying to enforce, pushing political BS, what else to call them besides JBT's.

They should be reported to the Dept they work for. Obviously the training they are being given is faulty or non -exsistant. :banghead:
 
The cops here, if they acted as reported, were NOT following Georgia law. Once he presented a weapons permit, that should have been the end of it.

Open carry is legal in Georgia with a carry permit. Open carry is legal in Georgia with a hunting or fishing license while going to, engaging in, and returning from, the licensed activity. Carry, whether open or concealed, is legal in a business that sells alcohol for consumption off of the premises with a carry permit or under the cited circumstances with a hunting or fishing license.

Of course, the law enforcement only provision is moot with the sunset of AWB.

Whether open carry is a wise decision is not covered under Georgia law. Therefore, the wisdom of open carry is not within the purview of Georgia law enforcement officers. Duh.

But, hey, what's new? Years ago, a Medical College of Georgia policeman and I were discussing the age of consent in Georgia. He claimed one age and I claimed another. I took his book of statutes, that he had been studying, out of his hands and turned to the pertinent section. Not only was I right and he wrong...but the statute's date was 1908. I've been in court when a young man was brought before a judge on a statutory rape charge. The first question the judge asked was the birthdate of the female in question. The second question was when the offense occurred. The third question was directed to the arresting officer and was an inquiry as to the age of consent in Georgia. The judge then told the arresting officer that he was in error and to never bring another case before him that displayed a total ignorance of the law. I've often wondered how that got through the various checks. The only thing I can figure is that the cop's superiors and the DA's office wanted him to wind up with egg on his face.
 
Erik,
I am in NE Georgia and am interested in this.

The suggestion to write a factual report to the chief and AG was great, I hope you will. While you're at it, you might also CC: the media, especially outlets that might pick up the story (Fox 5, AM 750, Neil Boortz?)

Please keep me appraised of how this develops, those cops need an attitude adjustment.
 
The bottom line is that open carry is legal, therefore this uy was harrased, period.

These situations become net positives if the officers involved are called on it. Then the local PD's understanding of the law increases and people's rights become better protected.

If they just go off and never learn that they've done anything wrong, everyone loses.
 
I've read the story a few times, and I still can't find the part where you called the chief on your own behalf and reported having officers repeatedly pointing a gun at you while you were innocently standing in a convenience store. Must be missing it.
 
Is it possible the police were called to the store by the shopkeeper - who observed someone in his shop openly carrying a handgun?
The police didn't do anything wrong, they did their job in checking out the person openly carrying. It's legal to openly carry where I live and I've been told by local LEO that while it's legal, you'll attact a lot of attention if you do it.
 
Stupid me being in Cali, but why did this guy carry openly? A Concealed Carry permit is just what it says CONCEALED Carry. I have a CCW here and I can't imagine walking out in the open with a pistol hanging of the side of my hip.

George does not issue "concealed" carry licenses. It issues licenses to carry either openly or concealed. http://www.opencarry.org/ga.html
 
I lived in Kennesaw for 2 years, never had a problem like this when I open carried, though I can't say I did it a lot. I prefer concealed, but alos respect the right to open carry. I agree, send letter to local Chief, cc the Atty. General. Also agree you need as many actual facts as possible in whatever letter you send. Anything less and your letter will fall on deaf ears or do more harm than good.

When I lived in Fulton Co. about 10 years ago I was pumping gas at the BP station on Roswell Rd. just about 1 mile south of the Chatahoochee River. Had just come from the range and was open carrying a S&W 686 w/ 6" barrel. Gas station attendant, unbeknown to me, called PD as she was "afraid" when she saw my gun. Fulton Co. Deputy pulled up, while I was still pumping. Got out, approached me:

Him: said with a smile, "You got a permit for that hog leg?"
Me: "yes, sir. Would you like to see it?"
Him: "No, that's alright, the attendant got scared when she saw your cannon."
Me: "Would you like to see my driver's license?"
Him: "No, that's ok. Some people just get a little jumpy when they see people carrying guns, especially clerks like her that may be more prone to getting robbed."
Me: "I assure you if I saw her being threatened or harmed in any way I would intervene on her behalf."
Him: "I'm sure you would, she probably doesn't realize there's good people out there with guns."

In retropsect I wish I would have gotten his name and badge number and sent a complementary letter to his CO. He was very nice and professional.

Good luck.
 
Open carry does attract alot of attention, alot of the kind you don't want. You have to know this, you can't just strap on your horse pistol and take a stroll in the park without getting some looks. I don't see anything wrong with taking 2 minutes to run the guy's ID, if it comes back clean then ok and if it comes back with some warrants or something then they caught another one. I really would like for everyone be able to carry openly and for people to not think twice about it but that just isn't how it is in some places.

Yes psychos do drive cars and often times they will drive wrecklessly or speed or not use a turning signal or something and cops stop people for that. Don't cops also run your tag if they feel like it wether you did anything or not? Isn't that the same as running your ID?
 
My understanding is that you average thug doesn't carry openly, and when carrying concealed tends to not even use a holster.

Couldn't you take a look at the guy, notice the $50+ holster and PITA-wide gunbelt, maybe verify his permit, and understand that odds are he's one of us? I think the cops went overboard, and demonstrated what many here refer to as a "big city cop mentality."

I'm not that surprised.
 
Comes down to this.

Open carry in some states...Legal...yes...

Smart....argueable point.

Would you open carry your sidearm into a toy store in a major metro area. You'd be in your legal rights to do so. Whether they call every swat officer in the 5 surrounding cities to "take out" this terrorist in a toy store is another matter.

Think about it. You are setting an example for the rest of us.
 
What I hear some people saying is that it is perfectly okay for the police to literally harrass someone who is not breaking the law.

Here I thought a LEO's job was simply to enforce the law, as written.

pax

... a government of law and not of men. What a quaint and fanciful notion! -- me
 
This is a Situation That YOU Can Correct

Okay, so instead of just being mad, you can take a simple action to help FIX the problem -- which is that the officers were uneducated about the true state of the law.

First - go to Packing.org and download the Georgia info on Open Carry and where you can and cannot carry.

Second - write a letter to the Chief of Police (copy ot the State Attorney General) stating why the officers were wrong to do what they did; and

Third - ask the Chief to conduct internal training so that his officers won't harass law-abiding citizens who are following Georgia State Law.

Because the members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League took the time & trouble to educate the chiefs of police and organized Open Carry rallies, they successfully CHANGED the way police and store owners deal with Open Carry.
 
"If, in fact, there is a "robbery about to happen", the only thing you will accomplish by open carry is being the first one shot."
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prove that statement with past examples. as far as i'm concerned thats just empty rhetoric. you are counting on a criminal being smart enough to look at you long enough to realize you are open carrying. the vast majorityof people wouldnt notice a gun if it was ductaped to your forehead.
 
What Department Was It?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE identify the law enforcement organization that these officers were with. you've already said it wasn't in Kennesaw, so it can't be the Kennesaw muni police. My brother is an officer with the Cobb County Police and lives in Kennesaw. His beat includes most of the towns near Kennesaw, so he may well know these particular boneheads. We may have an opportunity here to get a sympathetic ear in the department.

If for some reason you don't want to state it publicly, PM or email me and I'll keep it in confidence.
 
I also know that open carry often scares the crap out of a lot of people who observe it. I'm a member of the NRA and I think as gun owners we should try and do everything we can to woo more people to "our way of thinking" rather than the opposite. You can tell me all day long that you are within your 2nd amendment rights to do this or that, but open carry is considered by many as more "in your face" than it is a simple exercise of your rights under the Constitution.
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By carrying openly, perhaps we're wooing people to our way of thinking by demonstrating that a responsible, law-abiding adult can carry a sidearm without being overcome by the desire to commit violent crimes.

You make no difference to the "fence sitters" if you hide the fact. Carrying is NOT something of which to be ashamed.

~W
 
I think that once the police saw the permit, they should have left it alone.

This kind of thing is what furthers the distrust / disrespect of the police among common citizens.
 
When I was a kid in the 70s, I used to go visit my grandpa in Arizona. I remember seeing guys open carrying back then. I grew up in Michigan, and wasn't used to that, even though my dad had a (then very rare) concealed carry permit. Grandpa didn't seem to think it was any big deal, though. He explained that anyone could carry as long as they didn't try to conceal it.

Now I live in Tennessee and have a "Handgun Carry Permit", or "HCP." It allows me to carry a handgun. There is no requirement that it be concealed. Sure, I attract a little attention if I carry openly, but I see nothing wrong with that. Frankly, I think it's in everyone's best interest if the sheeple start getting used to seeing armed citizens, and it also probably helps deter crime.
 
By carrying openly, perhaps we're wooing people to our way of thinking by demonstrating that a responsible, law-abiding adult can carry a sidearm without being overcome by the desire to commit violent crimes.
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I don't think thats the case, as the response by some people to seeing open carry shows. Below is a portion of an IM conversation I had with a friend last Feb regarding open carry and the friend's views on it. This person is not an anti, the friend and spouse both own guns.

Friend: i must say though, even if your Idyllic world is walking around strapped, c'mon, that would be such a stressful way to live man....that's not what life should be...
sindawe: ????
sindawe: You mean living under the treat of a terrorist attack?
Friend: sigh...look I know there are stressors in today's world, but i'm just saying I would think it would suck even more if it were necessary to walk around armed...not by choice, but by necessity...that means things have really deteriorated.
Friend: and i do not aspire for a world like that.
Friend: and I don't believe you do either.
sindawe: Ahhhh....gotcha. Yea, that point is valid.
sindawe: But its fact of life in Isreal, sad to say. But I would rather live in a world where the sight of "normal" people having weapons on 'em by choice did not cause other folks to get their undies all in a knot.
Friend: also, I believe if our rights were liberal enough that toting FALs and the like were commonplace in society, that THAT would actually fuel deterioration in society such that people would become constantly concerned for their safety because everybody is toting machine guns...alot like why so many people keep buying SUVs, because at some point, it became a concern of their's should they be in an accident or desire visibility again...in order to feel secure, they went out and bought a SUV ..
Friend: i disagree with your last comment...I do not want to live in a society where 'normality' is carrying a weapon
Friend: i don't know why you dream of such a life.
Friend: the days of the old west were violent man...why would you want to live that way?
Friend: you can't tell me it's better than chilling at home with your cats watching Claudia Black...
Friend: or admiring your fish tank or whatever pleasures you seek...living in a society where guns that are visible is normal MEANS, and this is true, MEANS that society has in fact deteriorated to the point where gun toting BECAME a normality...and thus accepted as a means of defense in a ????ty environment...there's no way in hell that gun toting in public view is gonna be viewed as normal with the exception of law enforcement personnel...it's just not gonna happen because it doesn't make sense man...it just doesn't...the causitive event has to first occur to make life ????ty enough to always be carrying a gun in public view....
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Open carry may get odd looks, but that's because we don't exercise our rights frequently.

If anything, responsible gun-owners that can should make the effort to carry whenever appropriate. Otherwise, we'll become that "fringe" group. When a citizen is legal to open carry, it SHOULD be no big thing.

Please don't let this go unchallenged--if you do, it'll happen again. And from what you said, they didn't seem think he needed to protect himself anyway (concealed or otherwise, from the description of the eye-rolling at the victim's response).
 
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