JBT's in my neighborhood. Grrr!!!

[iiibdsiil]

So, if I don't feel like jamming a gun down my pants in an IWB holster, or I feel like carrying a bigger gun, that is more accurate for me, and would be better to use in the event I actually needed to, then open carry sounds like a good option. Soccer mom is having a heart attack because of it? Cry me a river.

And what if you standing in line at 7-11 open carrying stops a robbery because the guy only wants the money, not a murder rap? Oh, that's right, every robber wants to kill.

 

[Standing Wolf]

...I still can't find the part where you called the chief on your own behalf and reported having officers repeatedly pointing a gun at you while you were innocently standing in a convenience store.

I concur.

If I were the sheriff or chief in that jurisdiction, those "cops" would be on rubber gun patrol a good long while.

 

[gaston_45]

"You can tell me all day long that you are within your 2nd amendment rights to do this or that, but open carry is considered by many as more "in your face" than it is a simple exercise of your rights under the Constitution."

Uhhh... the second amendment says "A well regulated millitia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed". Carrying openly is also known as bearing arms. How is bearing arms NOT "a simple exercise of your rights under the constitution"???? Notice it clearly does not say the right to carry concealed or the right to bear arms as long as no one runs screaming in terror from you or maybe the right to bear arms unless you are in a toy store. It simply says bear arms.

I think the NRA types trying to "sway" the bliss ninnies by always discouraging open carry have been more instrumental than any of the antigun groups in fostering the current atmosphere in this country that allows officers to get away with harassing law abiding citizens. Afterall, who is going to say anything? Even the "gun nuts" tell people not to open carry, way to go open carrry appologists!

 

[LiquidTension]

If I were to see someone open carrying around here, I'd be suspicious - because in SC it's illegal. Any place that it's legal, more power to you. If the person isn't doing anything wrong, why would I get upset over the fact that he/she has a gun openly displayed? I see people with pocket knives clipped to their pockets ALL THE TIME on campus and I don't bat an eyelash even though it's illegal there (over a certain size). Thing is, nobody else gets hysterical about pocket knives either. It's only guns that get so much attention, because so many people have been so mislead about them. I've walked across campus with a katana before - I got several odd/interested looks, but nobody called the cops because no other weapon carries the stigma of a firearm.

Now I work for the police department, and I still don't do anything about people carrying knives. I guess it's just the media and the liberal brainwashing that people are constantly subjected to that causes such reactions. Even if a person has been robbed at gunpoint before, there is no logical reason for them to be scared of firearms. When you get into a wreck, does the sight of a Suburban like the one that plowed into you instantly strike fear into you? Of course not. Well, not if you're reasonably intelligent. But then, that seems to be the problem with blissninnies, doesn't it?

The cops in this particular case reacted improperly and should at the very least receive a good dressing down by their commanding officer(s).

 

[Tom Servo]

Update: This was in Woodstock, municipal police. I spoke with one of the officers I know today, and he checked, and there was no report filed, so the guy wasn't arrested. It's also unlikely that the proprietor placed a call. That was all he could tell me. He was a bit shocked about what he heard and said he'd look into it for me.

For the record, Georgia has no "CCW," simply a "Firearms License," which allows open or concealed carry. Places that "serve" alcohol for on-site consumption are off-limits (though there's legislation in the works), but places that sell it on the retail level are OK. As far as high-cap magazines, there's never been a ban in Georgia.

 

[cordex]

Police are rarely experts on the law. Why should they be? It's not like they're enforcing it or anything.

A little while ago I was pulled over for speeding in a small town here in Indiana where the speed drops quickly coming into the town and I wasn't paying enough attention. The first officer asked if I were armed and I answered in the affirmative. He told me to take out my guns (yes, he asked me to reach for them) and put them on the floor on the passenger side.
"Do you have anything else that might hurt me?"
No ... just a pocket knife.
"Okay, would you step out of the car and sit on the bumper, please?"
Sure, officer.
The responding cop took my license, registration and little pink piece of paper back to his car and got on the radio. Two more police officers drove up and explained they were there for officer safety.
Sure, I understand.
One of the new officers was an older guy who was polite and relaxed. The other was a jumpy little guy who talked too fast. Both of them went straight to my passenger window and started lighting up my pistols - a Colt 1911 and a Kel-tec P3AT - with their flashlights. The jumpy little guy came back and said, "Hey, you know your gun is cocked back?" and accompanied this with descriptive hand gestures.
Yes, officer.
"Why is it cocked?"
That's a 1911, that's the way it ...
"I'm familiar with the design. You cock it by pulling back the slide to load it. So it is cocked with a round in the chamber." More helpful waving of the hands.
Right ...
"Why are you carrying it like that?"
That's the way I always carry it.
"And are you familiar with Indiana state law regarding carrying handguns?"
Yes.
"And in your opinion are you in compliance with that law?"
Yes.
Jumpy went to talk to the original responding officer and the older fellow asked me where I'd gotten the guns. I named a local gun store. As I watch, Jumpy finishes his conversation with the responding officer and stomps back to his cruiser. I can see him turn on the dome light and start leafing through something. I suppose he was checking up on the law to see who was right. The older officer went to talk to the original cop who finally brought me the ticket for speeding and sent me on my way.

It could be that one of the officers there knew the law and filled Jumpy in after I left, but no one made a move to let him know that I was legally okay while Jumpy was implying I was somehow in violation of the law by carrying a 1911 properly.

No big deal really, but it didn't give me a great impression of the training in legal matters that officers get. In my opinion, if someone wants to be a LEO, the O better know the L he's E'ing.

 

[MudPuppy]

Thanks for the update--and more importantly, thanks for making the call.

 

[Malamute]

spacemanspiff wrote



"Quote:
"If, in fact, there is a "robbery about to happen", the only thing you will accomplish by open carry is being the first one shot."

prove that statement with past examples. as far as i'm concerned thats just empty rhetoric. you are counting on a criminal being smart enough to look at you long enough to realize you are open carrying. the vast majorityof people wouldnt notice a gun if it was ductaped to your forehead."





I also would like to see some evidence of the basis for this opinion. I have seen it expressed before when this topic came up, and nobody has EVER shown any reason, beyond opinion, to hold this view. I am of the camp that feels a crook does not want to encounter an armed person, and someone being openly armed, they know right off the bat that it is not going to be as simple as they first anticipated, IF as spiff mentioned, they they even notice someone being armed. People that draw a weapon after being confronted by a robber or potential rapist etc, generally are left alone when the bad guy realizes they are armed, further supporting the concept that an openly armed person is NOT the most likely to be shot first.

The right to KEEP and BEAR arms is exactly that, OWN and CARRY. Thinking about it, requiring a permit to engage in a constitionally protected right doesnt sound right. Just my OPINION.



I felt the way TallPine did when I first started reading some of the comments in this thread.
__________________

 

[grimjaw]

If the gun was a rifle, and in his truck window, would the police have gotten their warning signals tripped? I don't know what the law is on that subject in GA. I know growing up in Arkansas it was common to see trucks with rifles in the back window, and not at all a cause for concern.

If he he exercised another infrequently used right, would they have become upset? If anyone can think of one that would be good to use as an example in this situation, it would be welcome. I have a right to vote, even though I don't often enough. I wonder how much longer it will be before someone decides "just because you've got a permit (to vote) doesn't mean we welcome it."

I will admit that seeing someone walk into a convenience store with a gun on their hip might make me initially uneasy. I might even feel better if the cops were there and determined that the person wasn't, in fact, a threat. But misleading a person about his rights under the law ("They then told the guy that the permit only allowed concealed, not open, carry") is wrong and the police officers in question should be admonished, at the least.

If they want to enforce the law, keep the peace, and reassure the citizens of their jurisdiction, great. Sounds like good cop stuff. IMO, a different approach could have been used.

jmm

 

[Byron Quick]

Traditionally, open carry has been legal in Georgia without a permit or document or verbal permission from any official. That changed when we got concealed carry. Our legislators, in their wisdom, came up with a new crime for Georgia: carrying a pistol without a license.

Scenario: Store owner calls cops about open carry. Cops peruse guy's carry permit, thank him for his cooperation, and leave. Anything beyond that is not enforcing Georgia law. It's basically giving a law abiding citizen a hard time simply because they think they can without consequence.

I haven't open carried for many years. I did often before the law changed back in the seventies. Never had a problem. The only people who ever mentioned it seemed to think that I was a cop...long hair, beard, sandals, and all.

 

[dpesec]

This is really a double edged sword. Most, if not all, of us would like open carry to be a bit more accepted. The problem is we don't want to do it because people freak when they see a weapon. This means we hide the weapons. Which means the person who open carries is stil lthe odd-man out.

Now, that said, I don't open carry either. Perhaps this doctor should take some of my own advice.

 

[stevelyn]

Just because it's legal, dosen't mean we welcome it.

LEOs are paid to enforce the law, not their opinions.

I think a couple of "officers" need to get slapped back on the FTO program for a bit of remedial training on applicable laws, reveiw their oaths as to what they really mean, and how to be a little more tactful in dealing with the public. Then do about 90 days on parking meter/rubber gun detail to make the message sink in.

This sounds similar the open carry/police contact controversy that a member (former?) had in NH some months back. Another case of the police enforcing their opinions because some blissninny got her panties in a bunch when she saw him minding his own business and carrying a handgun.

I'm not going to buy into the "officer safety" arguement here either. From the information given, there was nothing about the guy's actions that would lead a reasonable person to believe he was commiting or going to commit a crime. Too many times I've heard "officer safety" given as justification for heavy handed tactics. BS, if you're afraid of everyone you come in contact with, you need to find another job. An officer who constantly afraid is dangerous to the public and other officers.
Cautious, yes. Observant, yes. Having a plan to deal with a sudden violent confrontation is prudent, and the confidence you can handle it is absolutely necessary. Over reacting when it's not necessary causes nothing but problems and can escalate a situation into a legal and administrative nightmare.
I've had the misfortune of having had to work with this type before. Quite honestly......I'd rather be by myself.

The citizen victim (yes he is a victim of the govt under the color of law) and witness in this case need to raise Holy Hayel starting with the first line supervisor and working their way up to the AG's office for this official misconduct.

 

[CARRY'IN]

Have to go with the "open carry is a bad idea" crowd. But I have kind of a weird take on law enforcement in general. I dont think there should be any uniform police officers anywhere- they should all be plainclothes and the cars all unmarked. When they excercise authority the badge comes out and a ball cap goes on. I would feel alot better without cops everywhere I look. It would probably calm the cops down alot also. I know, I know, it will never happen.

 

[GunGoBoom]

1. Where exactly did this happen? and

2. Can a non-resident with an OK CCW (which is a no open carry state), open carry there in GA?

Cuz I'm about to drive down there and start some trouble with those arrogant SOB JBTs. Hawkmoon is exactly correct.

It's outrageous. He has that right, and he should not have been stopped or bothered in any way, except perhaps to show the license.

 

[Malamute]

"I'm not going to buy into the "officer safety" arguement here either. From the information given, there was nothing about the guy's actions that would lead a reasonable person to believe he was commiting or going to commit a crime. Too many times I've heard "officer safety" given as justification for heavy handed tactics. BS, if you're afraid of everyone you come in contact with, you need to find another job. An officer who constantly afraid is dangerous to the public and other officers.
Cautious, yes. Observant, yes. Having a plan to deal with a sudden violent confrontation is prudent, and the confidence you can handle it is absolutely necessary. Over reacting when it's not necessary causes nothing but problems and can escalate a situation into a legal and administrative nightmare."


I agree with Stevelyn on this. I've been stopped (speeding) when having guns, either on the seat, or on me. The cops asked to hold on to the gun while we were talking, then gave it back, still loaded, when we were done, (one gave me the gun back, then stood and talked for 15 minutes). All were relaxed, but aware, and my impression was that they were on top of what was happening, and confidant (without being cocky), but treated me like I was a normal sort of guy. I reciprocated the courtusy by keeping my left hand on the doorframe, and right on the wheel casually. Had one situation in Flagstaff, aparently someone called in that myself and another guy had guns on in a laundrymat, and about 3 cars showed up to check us out. No law against having a gun in a laundrymat, nor was anything going on other than doing laundry. Knew the attendant, and they didnt call, was a customer. I was surprised that the response was what it was. I believe that most of the cops that showed up that day were new guys by the look and attitude of them. Guys that act like they are nervous spread the feeling to those they are dealing with. Does nobody any good. I respect those that seem polite, cool and confidant, I have a hard time respecting those that treat an average person carrying like a criminal first, until "proven" innocent.

 

[ezypikns]

what PX15 said......

ditto. Also I don't want everyone to know I'm armed.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Most, if not all, of us would like open carry to be a bit more accepted. The problem is we don't want to do it because people freak when they see a weapon. This means we hide the weapons. Which means the person who open carries is stil lthe odd-man out.

So carry openly. I do. To date, other than my fellow bullseye shooters at the range, only one person has said a single word, and she was just curious.

 

[Byron Quick]

Also, I don't want everyone to know I'm armed.

You'd be surprised at just how few people in a store or on the street would even notice a 1911 in an good IWB carried at 4 o'clock. I've watched people who were carrying openly in crowds. Less than 5 percent of the people even looked twice. No one pointed. Or screamed. Or fainted.

I carried a Charter Arms Undercover revolver in the right hip pocket of my blue jeans for about five years. Of course, after a while all of my blue jeans had the outline of a revolver in white on my right hip pocket. I carried into places where it was strictly verboten (I've wised up) such as police stations. Granted, I was known at the police stations. To judge by folk's reactions, no one ever noticed the white revolver shape worn on all my blue jeans.

Even with open carry, no more than 5% of the people around you are going to know you're armed. I know it's demoralizing but people are just not looking at your waist.

 

[CARRY'IN]

I dont understand why anyone would want to walk around displaying a gun on their hip. I just dont get it. For one thing you are giving someone the drop on you right off the bat. For another, it looks freakishly out of place in the 21st century. I am all for concealed, but this open carry thing sounds like a little too much testerone to me.

 

[iiibdsiil]

How many people carry they cell phone and keys on their waste band? A lot. The problem with society today is guns are so taboo (sp?). I want a society where guns are looked at in the same way cell phones are, no one even notices. The only reason it is out of place is because so many people think guns shoot themselves, that the gun is responsible for all shootings, and that people with guns want to kill people, and are gonna kill people. I love how people can paint a picture, without even looking at the subject.

I have never open carried, but I gotta imagine it is a heck of a lot more comfortable than IWB or any other type.

 

[mnrivrat]

For another, it looks freakishly out of place in the 21st century. I am all for concealed, but this open carry thing sounds like a little too much testerone to me.

I hear ya ! I feel the same way about gays for example - It doesn't bother me that they exist, I just think they should stay in the closet .

Then there is the churches - I have no problem with religion , but having religious holidays is realy flaunting it in my face . And whats all those crosses being displayed out in public for ? A little too much religous holy stuff for me.

 

[Strings]

^^^good post^^^

 

[Hoploholic]

This is exactly why you should carry open every once in a while where it is legal. If enough people that are not of us see responsible gun owners openly carrying and acting like the fine ladies and gentlemen that we are, many of their unrational fears will be put at ease. Also, the more in your face we get about the expression of our rights the better. The only way to make your point is if those not in the group see it.

Comes down to this.

Open carry in some states...Legal...yes...

Smart....argueable point.

Would you open carry your sidearm into a toy store in a major metro area. You'd be in your legal rights to do so. Whether they call every swat officer in the 5 surrounding cities to "take out" this terrorist in a toy store is another matter.

Think about it. You are setting an example for the rest of us.

 

[shooting time]

I live in Acworth Ga and have listened to the Communist Cobb County police make up their own laws on the spot.One instance was when i lived in Cobb County and had to casll the police because there was a prowler outside my house .I called 911 and grabbed my MP5 had the wife back me up and went outside to check things out.Finally the cops show up tell me I cant be outside my house with a gun take it from me and try to take the magazine out of it(had to tell him how to do it) asks me what kind of gun it is hands the mag to my wife tells her to bring it inside.gives me the MP5 back tells me some other BS makes a report and leaves.I never told him it was full auto just a H&K because there was no telling what he would have tryed to do after that.Seems that the old timers are ok but the new breed of cops are full of themselves think they know everything and what they say is law.

 

[GunGoBoom]

Well put, MN river rat!