Erik Jensen
Member
wow! this thread is back from the dead! 
Scenes from a Philippine Gun Show :)
- Thread starter horge
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CAPTAIN MIKE
Member
Hey...Something's Missing !!!
Hey - wait just a doggone minute. I didn't see any Doll, Jewelry or any Tupperware Tables !! What the heck kinda Gun Show is that ?
Hey - wait just a doggone minute. I didn't see any Doll, Jewelry or any Tupperware Tables !! What the heck kinda Gun Show is that ?
SamlautRanger
member
OK I AM MOVING TO THE PI !!! CAN OWN GUNS, WARM WEATHER, AND NO FAT CHICKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob R
Member
Yea, right. Don't bet the farm on that one!!
The_Antibubba
Member
You know, given what Fillipinos had to endure during WWII, I don't think the guy with the Waffen insignia and the reproduction Rising Sun flag would feel very comfortable behind his table.
loose cannon
Member
in some way the philipines sounds like heaven but in others hell.
the limitations on ammo come to mind. my idea of hell would be a gun with"da switch"and only a couple 100 rds of ammo in my cabinet.i gotta have lots of ammo.(last delivery;1000rounds of +p 38spl lswchp's)
rights are a bit harder to take away than privledges but i must say your gunshows are superior to ours.
i was admireing a close relative of that tricked 1911 you priced at $178,
on a table at the recent gunshow in springfield missouri it cost $350.
the limitations on ammo come to mind. my idea of hell would be a gun with"da switch"and only a couple 100 rds of ammo in my cabinet.i gotta have lots of ammo.(last delivery;1000rounds of +p 38spl lswchp's)
rights are a bit harder to take away than privledges but i must say your gunshows are superior to ours.
i was admireing a close relative of that tricked 1911 you priced at $178,
on a table at the recent gunshow in springfield missouri it cost $350.
OP
OP
horge
Member
Holy moley... this thread is back from the dead!
Merry Christmas everyone!
at the food concessions towards one end of these shows... does that count?
each with varying genetic tendencies with regard to build,
but I really doubt the very-representative average is anything other than slim/petite.
Chief problem here is the humidity ---bad for stocks and for steel,
with theft a close second.
Garands, quite a few. Not sure of their condition.
Many of the Thompsons in AFP storage are in pretty bad shape, many having
been repeatedly cannibalized to support a small number that were service-issued
in the 1950's-1970's. Ditto M14's --those old warhorses are still in service.
The M3's are in pretty decent condition, and batches have been refurbished
recently for re-issue to some of our cash-strapped Armed Forces. I posted about this awhiles back
I sure wish we had a '2nd Amendment' of sorts, though it seems gun-restrictions have
relaxed exponentially here over the past 30 years.
I view with equal parts sadness and alarm the way your 2A is being incrementally debased.
-horge
Merry Christmas everyone!
We have our choice of everything from hot dim sum to grilled babyback ribsCAPTAIN MKE said:
at the food concessions towards one end of these shows... does that count?
SamlautRanger said:
Hard to genealize really, there are brown, white and black Filipinas,Bob R said:
each with varying genetic tendencies with regard to build,
but I really doubt the very-representative average is anything other than slim/petite.
Not as many as rumor would have it, but a surprising amount nonetheless.SIOP said:
Chief problem here is the humidity ---bad for stocks and for steel,
with theft a close second.
Garands, quite a few. Not sure of their condition.
Many of the Thompsons in AFP storage are in pretty bad shape, many having
been repeatedly cannibalized to support a small number that were service-issued
in the 1950's-1970's. Ditto M14's --those old warhorses are still in service.
The M3's are in pretty decent condition, and batches have been refurbished
recently for re-issue to some of our cash-strapped Armed Forces. I posted about this awhiles back
loose cannon said:
I sure wish we had a '2nd Amendment' of sorts, though it seems gun-restrictions have
relaxed exponentially here over the past 30 years.
I view with equal parts sadness and alarm the way your 2A is being incrementally debased.
-horge
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Horge - Happy Xmas back at you my friend
loose cannon
Member
thanks for the link to the m3 thread very enjoyable reading.i rented and shot a m3a1 in arizona on a layover in 1992 .it was a awesome treat as my father carryed one when he drove a halftrack ammo carrier in korea in the early 50's.
as for our second amendment; other than the spanking we had to give the antigun crats in new orleans were not doing too badly. my state (and i)celebrate our second year of concealed carry in 2months and we may abolish the permit to aquire handguns law soon as well.this nation is down to 4 states where ccw is totaly illegal and i expect it to drop to 1 over the next 2-5 years.
i am concerned for the future though, i feel the antigun oposition party will soon control our legislature and possibly the white house, bringing back the crap we had in the 90s and maybe worse. hope im wrong.
as for our second amendment; other than the spanking we had to give the antigun crats in new orleans were not doing too badly. my state (and i)celebrate our second year of concealed carry in 2months and we may abolish the permit to aquire handguns law soon as well.this nation is down to 4 states where ccw is totaly illegal and i expect it to drop to 1 over the next 2-5 years.
i am concerned for the future though, i feel the antigun oposition party will soon control our legislature and possibly the white house, bringing back the crap we had in the 90s and maybe worse. hope im wrong.
Spreadfire Arms
Member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
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- 1,312
neat contraption for a Glock, i think if you had it in the U.S. that Glock would have to be registered as an AOW?
i think if it was a registered post-sample Glock 18 it would trump the AOW status......interesting. why would you want a pistol mounted to the front of your long gun though?
spaceCADETzoom
Member
ok, i've been reading this thread and have found most of the Americans in awe. And Horge painting a really rosy picture of things over there. I'm not completely doubting any of what he says, but i do want to reiterate the fact that private gun ownership IS severely regulated in the phillippines, and not nearly as free as it is here.
Under Philippine law, most citizens may own only two firearms: one shotgun or .22 caliber rifle, and one handgun. Getting a license for each gun requires proof of employment, approval from police officials, mayors and courts, passing drug and psychiatric tests, and paying fees. Buying a firearm involves more approvals and fees. Owners need the carry permit if they want to transport a gun outside the home.
I cut and pasted that pragraph from elsewhere, and it confirms what i have heard from realtives and family friends (i am a third generation American of Filipino lineage). Thier federal govenment put that database of registered guns to use when it institued a gun ban in 2003.
As far as ther gun shows looking like trade shows with flashy signs, et al. This goes part and parcel with the fact we Americans have a cultivated civil rights background with private gun ownership. As horge noted, to them it's a privellege, not a right. And like many other countries (i.e. the UK), gun ownership (legal gun ownership) is a rich man's hobby. We have beef jerky and beanie babies at our gun shows because its the stuff of middle America. Thier gun shows look like trade shows not unlike European gun shows. It caters less to regular joes and more to law enforcement/military, etc. It looks like a trade show because they largely are. There is a cultural difference here...
I have no prblem wiht the PI. It's a fine, beautiful, lovely country. I have a direct tie to it in my family's history. But I don't think we should be dillusional about liberal ideals (like the right to property and self-defense and general American self-reliance) being better in other countries with severe histories of authoritative regimes and corruption...
That sounds like I"m bashing the PI. I don't mean to. I love the Philippines. I merely don't want any of us to envy something like policy on gun ownership when we shouldn't be...
Under Philippine law, most citizens may own only two firearms: one shotgun or .22 caliber rifle, and one handgun. Getting a license for each gun requires proof of employment, approval from police officials, mayors and courts, passing drug and psychiatric tests, and paying fees. Buying a firearm involves more approvals and fees. Owners need the carry permit if they want to transport a gun outside the home.
I cut and pasted that pragraph from elsewhere, and it confirms what i have heard from realtives and family friends (i am a third generation American of Filipino lineage). Thier federal govenment put that database of registered guns to use when it institued a gun ban in 2003.
As far as ther gun shows looking like trade shows with flashy signs, et al. This goes part and parcel with the fact we Americans have a cultivated civil rights background with private gun ownership. As horge noted, to them it's a privellege, not a right. And like many other countries (i.e. the UK), gun ownership (legal gun ownership) is a rich man's hobby. We have beef jerky and beanie babies at our gun shows because its the stuff of middle America. Thier gun shows look like trade shows not unlike European gun shows. It caters less to regular joes and more to law enforcement/military, etc. It looks like a trade show because they largely are. There is a cultural difference here...
I have no prblem wiht the PI. It's a fine, beautiful, lovely country. I have a direct tie to it in my family's history. But I don't think we should be dillusional about liberal ideals (like the right to property and self-defense and general American self-reliance) being better in other countries with severe histories of authoritative regimes and corruption...
That sounds like I"m bashing the PI. I don't mean to. I love the Philippines. I merely don't want any of us to envy something like policy on gun ownership when we shouldn't be...
sturmruger
Member
Horge I always apreciate reading your posts. It is great to get some insight about other countries and what their gun laws are like.
Do you shoot competitively?? (IDPA, or IPSC)
Do you shoot competitively?? (IDPA, or IPSC)
OP
OP
horge
Member
Hi spaceCADETzoomspaceCADETzoom said:
You are citing a US-colonial and Marcos-era restriction, which is demonstrably obsolete.
Those restrictions (first codified in 1917) you cited were initially relaxed in the
late 1980's, leading up to Executive Order 194, issued 24 February 2000,
which reads in part:
----------
"...NOW THEREFORE I, JOSEPH EJERCITO ESTRADA, President of the Republic of the Philippines,
by virtue of the powers vested in me by law,do hereby order:
Section 1. General Orders 7, 7-A, 7-B and 7-C which authorize certain individuals to
possess and carry firearms, limit the number of firearms to be possessed,
and regulate the operation of gun clubs, are hereby repealed.
Section 2. Henceforth, all citizens of the Philippines may possess firearms of any type and/or caliber,
Provided that such firearms are not classified as crew-served weapons (CSWs),
light anti-tank weapons (LAWs), light machine guns (LMGs), anti-tank and anti-personnel
recoilless rifles, bazookas, etc.; Provided further that such firearms are
test-fired for ballistics, stenciled and properly licensed... (snip)"
----------
...so I could buy an MP5 --if I had the cash and the desire (no, on both counts)
A good revolver can be had for less than PhP 4,000 (US$70), all-in, if one knows
how to shop. At the other end of the spectrum, an M4 or M16 costs well over
PhP 120,000 (US$2000+), not including paperwork.
The 'licensing' and 'purchasing'(???) requiements are not separate.
When you buy, you (by default) apply for a license.
This is why it's smart to buy at the gun show --it's usually a one-stop shop
for the license requirements, which nomally would eat up two afternoons worth
of lining up at various offices, and approximately US$ 70-90 in fees.
Concealed carry requires a CCW permit. *shrug*.
Errr... I make less for a month's work what a minimum wage American
makes in 4 days, yet I have several firearms. Most fellow gun owners I know are
ordinary salarymen making as little, or even less. Owning 2-3 handguns,
a rifle and a shotgun is not unusual for owners, though a lot of Filipinos don't own at all.
IIRC, 2002 PNP (Philippine National Police) statistics suggested (crudely)
1 out of every 27 Filipinos owned at least one firearm. I'll try to find the data,
and correct this if necessary.
We're regular Joes making a fraction of US minimum wage.
It is the 'gamers' (IPSC, IDPA, etc.) who have to be wealthy,
what with all the ammo, gear, and travel involved.
One last thing: It is a 'privilege' in the eyes of the law.
In our eyes, it's a social-familial and moral DUTY to be prepared
SpaceCZ, the photos are quite representative of the gun-show crowd.
The vast majority of the buying customers are regular 'Joes'.
Military and LEO's mostly hover around the ballistic vest and LMG displays.
I'm not sure what the definition of a 'trade show' is these days,
but the gun shows I've described are more like 'flea markets' with respect to
the commerce and clientele involved. Lots of haggling going on
Hi sturmruger !sturmruger said:
I'm afraid not. I simply can't afford the time and money involved.
Work or die, man!
Hi! I was wondering the same thing.SpreadfireArms said:
As the salesgirl explained it --in case you get jumped while reloading the rifle,
you can fall back on 'Perfection'.
***
Next big Gun Show in town is scheduled for this coming mid-January.
It should be a lot of fun, though I'm told they won't allow picture-taking
anymore.
yebaaaaa!!!!
horge
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SamlautRanger
member
Great info Horge!! Thanks.
I loved the PI. Spent one of the happiest months of my life on Mindoro, SCUBA diving.
How is the regulation for non-PI citizens to purchase firearms. If, me as an American, wanted to move to the PI and live there would it be possible for me to purchase several firearms for defense and sport?
Do you know if there is anywhere in the PI that has legalized hunting? Wild Pig? Thanks.
I loved the PI. Spent one of the happiest months of my life on Mindoro, SCUBA diving.
How is the regulation for non-PI citizens to purchase firearms. If, me as an American, wanted to move to the PI and live there would it be possible for me to purchase several firearms for defense and sport?
Do you know if there is anywhere in the PI that has legalized hunting? Wild Pig? Thanks.
VirgilCaine
Member
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2005
- Messages
- 617
horge said:
Riiight. Larger mags are much cheaper...
Or maybe they aren't?
OP
OP
horge
Member
SamlautRanger,
Hi! I posted earlier (somewhere on this thead) that unfortunately,
only citizens of the Republic can own firearms .
horge
PS: There was an obscure clause in our Firearm Laws that dwelt on
foreign diplomats owning firearms, citing reciprocity:
to wit, if the United States allows Filipino citizens to KBA in the US,
then the Philippines is honor-bound to allow American citizens the same
freedom here...
Unfortunately the law containing the clause was repealed by the
Executive Order I cited earlier (the one that allows me --though I've never
tested it-- to own several select fire rifles or subguns), and so the
issue of foreigner-ownership of firearms in the Philippines is in limbo.
PPS: Don't know much about hunting. There is a hunting permit
involved, but with so many endangered species here (wild pigs included)... *shrug*
I hear there's no permit required for hunting Communist and pseudo-Muslim terrorists.
No limit either.
Hi! I posted earlier (somewhere on this thead) that unfortunately,
only citizens of the Republic can own firearms .
horge
PS: There was an obscure clause in our Firearm Laws that dwelt on
foreign diplomats owning firearms, citing reciprocity:
to wit, if the United States allows Filipino citizens to KBA in the US,
then the Philippines is honor-bound to allow American citizens the same
freedom here...
Unfortunately the law containing the clause was repealed by the
Executive Order I cited earlier (the one that allows me --though I've never
tested it-- to own several select fire rifles or subguns), and so the
issue of foreigner-ownership of firearms in the Philippines is in limbo.
PPS: Don't know much about hunting. There is a hunting permit
involved, but with so many endangered species here (wild pigs included)... *shrug*
I hear there's no permit required for hunting Communist and pseudo-Muslim terrorists.
No limit either.
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Thanks Horge for clarifying some of the
gun ownership laws in the PI. They also
have a sizeable gun lobby group with a lot
of politics ie right wing compromise. The country
has had 2-3 coup attempts since the Marcos years.
A large gap in the low to upper class also indicates
need for arms as protection so it seems. There is
a lot of unregistered firearms on the country
and a reasonable fear of crime and violence.
gun ownership laws in the PI. They also
have a sizeable gun lobby group with a lot
of politics ie right wing compromise. The country
has had 2-3 coup attempts since the Marcos years.
A large gap in the low to upper class also indicates
need for arms as protection so it seems. There is
a lot of unregistered firearms on the country
and a reasonable fear of crime and violence.
I was working in Quezon CIty from 1990 to 94. I went to one of this gunshows back in 1992 at Mega mall SM. Yeah it reminds me of so many things. It is more of a privilege not a right esp the rich and famous or let say powers in govt who can own. I remember drooling looking on those brandnew pistols hoping someday I could own one.
Anyway Im here in Houston now and own pistols and assault rifles that I cant hardly own in the Philippines.
Anyway Im here in Houston now and own pistols and assault rifles that I cant hardly own in the Philippines.
History Prof
Member
Wow. They view it as a non-right, yet, in some ways, the PI is less restricted than the US is here with our 2A*rights*. However, viewing it as a privilege can be dangerous. If government grants the privilege, government can take it away (witness Horge's comments on Ferdinand Marcos).
As far I could remember you can buy an M16A1 military version in FA for 45 000 pesos . Its easy to acquire esp in MIndanao. Sometimes it could be cheaper as economy is so bad people wanna get rid of it and buy food for the table. If you have the dough , its possible. Even M14 with FA selector .
The_Future
Member
Now on the ammo restrictions can you own multiple guns of the same caliber to get around it?
Buy some cheap .38Sp's and you've gotten around that.
Buy some cheap .38Sp's and you've gotten around that.
OP
OP
horge
Member
Good Lord, this thread is back!!!
of all things CZ (except maybe the P01) for half a year now.
Sorry to be answering so late, Ron!
I have a cousin out in Sugarland, but I don't think he's into guns.
Golf is his thing.
What has me worried is that constitutionally enshrining it as a 'right'
doesn't seem to prevent incremental violation over time by gun-haters,
that is, if I'm perceiving the U.S. experience correctly.
Nobody really pays attention to the spec-limits on home ammo-storage.
Cheers, everyone.
85K last I heard, but the distributor here (PBDionisio) has been out of stock
of all things CZ (except maybe the P01) for half a year now.
Sorry to be answering so late, Ron!
Congratulations! Texas is great!
I have a cousin out in Sugarland, but I don't think he's into guns.
Golf is his thing.
Your assessment is dead on the money.
What has me worried is that constitutionally enshrining it as a 'right'
doesn't seem to prevent incremental violation over time by gun-haters,
that is, if I'm perceiving the U.S. experience correctly.
Well, yes, that's right. But...
Nobody really pays attention to the spec-limits on home ammo-storage.
Cheers, everyone.
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