SWAT: The Movie!

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i dunno about lapd but some depts do have women on tac teams. i may see it, depends, it better not have some gay plot.

it really doesn't matter if you think tac teams are bad are not b/c they're not going away. having a lone officer w/ no vest to serve dangerous warrants and break into the middle of a drug house isn't gonna make anyone happy and will bring lawsuits from families, so get used to em.
 
>> you can CCW in Kali? I thought thats why you were planning a self-exile from that place.

Self-exile: fixed blade carry, ferrets, skunks, ammunition feeding devices w/ more than 10 rounds, AR-15s, HK91s, AR-10s, Beretta Billenia, Beretta Cx4 Storm, etc. But CCW issuance is a regional thang. But it's good for San Francisco. Muuahhahahaha!!! :evil:

>> Guys, we've got a mission... We gotta get Skunk a girlfriend. Without benefit of a rental agreement... Which means that she's gotta shoot, _and_ own tactical undies...

I have her picked out, I just haven't learned the language yet. :eek:

>> But does Lafayette, Indiana really need it's own SWAT Team?
No.

They have El Tejon and Daniel G Flory! Heck if they moved to Los Angeles, between the three of us, it would turn into a boring place! :D
 
Nip It In The Bud

Those who state they fear their political masters have it half right. They are some twisted, powerhungry, possibly even evil people. That said, do you think Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot or Chairman Mao would have gotten very far without ready and willing henchmen? The people who give the orders are not the people who make them happen. Heck, I dare Reno, Feinstein, Schumer and the whole gang to come try and take what I have themselves! There's not much they could do that I couldn't handle with a wiffle ball bat and a jar of mayonaise. I fear politicians for one reason and one reason only, they have attack dogs.

Yes, I say disband SWAT, and our other Gestapo and Brownshirts while we're at it. Let's nip this thing in the bud. These kinds of organizations are contrary to the interests of peace and freedom.

It's funny I should hear a few voices cry out about how violent society has become when we all know that violent crime has been more or less steadily decreasing since the 70's. We use that in our arguments against the anti-gunners every day. Of course, people have always thought they lived in especially violent times. I could give you a quote from a gentleman living in Renaissance Italy who was concered about his "violent modern times."

Meth labs? Naw, I'm not interested in raiding any meth labs myself. I'll tell you what though, if the criminals weren't protected by amoral gaurddogs, it'd be awfully hard to find a drug dealer in my neighborhood. Not because I think I'm some Rambo, not because I'd go vigilante. Because I'd round up some like-minded American men and we'd go have a heart to heart talk with the badguys. If the badguys decide to get a burr up their butts, well, violent assault and attempted murder is whole nother deal. That's a mistake they wouldn't survive.

I would sooner live in a society watched over by socially responsible armed citizens then a bunch of hired goons. What do you think we have the second ammendment for, guys? To hunt rabbits or put pretty round holes in pieces of paper? So we can own tactical AR 15s? No. It's to ensure the security of a free state. If there were free American men in the vicinity of the North Hollywood shootout, how many hits from a scoped .308 bolt action do you think the criminals with the AKs and body armor could have taken?
 
"If there were free American men in the vicinity of the North Hollywood shootout, how many hits from a scoped .308 bolt action do you think the criminals with the AKs and body armor could have taken?"


3...just like a tootsi-pop right???? 3 to get to the gooey center???
 
I would sooner live in a society watched over by socially responsible armed citizens then a bunch of hired goons

What do you think these "socially responsible armed citizens" become? They become the sheriff or marshal of the town, as they did in the old west. We have been at that point and progressed past it.

The ideal society is one where everyone lives in harmony with everyone else...that isn't happening. It seems that it is human nature to want power, possessions, etc... Wars are fought over it, and have been since the dawn of time, one group wants more power than another. There are those in our society who are "enlightened" and do not crave power and control, but they make up a small percentage of the population.

Police are important in enforcing the laws. These laws are made by officials elected by the "people". I am not a naive college student who believes in this "pure" government. I realize it is often the most vocal group that influences law makers. They have the support of the media, they have nothing better to do than send out flyers, make phone calls, file law suits, etc... The police are not our problem, these people are. I for one do not fear the police in the things I do in my every day life. In fact i work closely with many officers. In my building there are generally anywhere from 30 to over 100 officers almost every day. I have watched some of their training classes firsthand. They are warned of mistakes made in the past where too much force was used, taught how to better interact with society, etc...

While SWAT in a small town may very well be overkill, a well sized city creatinga well trained unit for situations a normal patrol officer can't effectively handle is a good thing. They are trained and given the equipment to handle the situation with the least amount of casualties. We must remember there was a time when these teams weren't in existence. They were created for a reason...
 
Maybe I'll be able to get my girls to go out with me and see it. (Seeing as I don't have a guy to take me. :( ) and since all they want to do is watch chic flicks they might want to see one that's kinda borderline. Course if it turns out to be good they'll hate it, if it turns out to be ok they will think it was a waste of time and hate me, if it's bad they will love it and I'll hate it and regret going at all. Hmmm maybe I won't go see it. I hate how I keep coming to that conclusion. Maybe I should give up on movies since I have no money and no boyfriend to sponge off of to pay for it.

Why DOES Skunk's social life keeping coming up and no one elses? Are the rest of you afraid to talk about it? ;-)

Well back to the movie thing. I've had SWAT teams come to my neighbor hood. I think they are good, but like most things too much of a good thing is bad. If it gets out of control then it's bad, but when the general good is in need they may come in handy. There are some situations where it might be good to have a SWAT team ready if needed, but they have to be well trained and able to diffuse the situation quickly with as few people hurt as possible.
 
How many stories have we heard of people being killed because a SWAT team broke into the wrong house?
I can recall exactly zero... Maybe you can point us in a direction where we can read about all these murders by SWAT teams, huh?

GT
 
I can recall exactly zero... Maybe you can point us in a direction where we can read about all these murders by SWAT teams, huh?
But I read about them on the internet from a guy who knew a guy who was married to a girl that at one time went out with a guy who was related to one of the victims.
 
But I read about them on the internet from a guy who knew a guy who was married to a girl that at one time went out with a guy who was related to one of the victims.


LOL! I think I saw that post too. :D
 
I can recall exactly zero... Maybe you can point us in a direction where we can read about all these murders by SWAT teams, huh?
Well, here's one example. Of course, he dared to shoot back at a gang of masked, armed thugs breaking into his bedroom (well, he might have...), and he was a Mexican...so maybe he doesn't count. :rolleyes:
 
TarpleyG, how many do you want? Ian brings us one from Red. There are plenty of others from the top of my head:

Samuel Weaver;
Donald Carlson;
Kenyon Ballew (attempted murder, wounded for life);
Robin Pratt;
Xavier Bennett, Jr.;
Manuel Ramirez;
Charles DiGristine (survived, but stood trial for murder as he talked about suing the police).

Would you like others? Unfortunately mistakes happen and governmental agents are not always in the right or acting within the law just because they have a tin badge and a polyester uniform.

This issue is best addressed on a thread concerning police training or a lack thereof and the political pressure that is applied to police to "produce results." Dangerous combination of undertrained police and craven politicians giving in to soccermommies who bleat about "doing something" concerning "X" or political bosses concerned about budgets.

However, the solution remains increasing the freedom for all so that these pressures do not manifest themselves in the loss of even more innocent life.
 
Yes, I say disband SWAT, and our other Gestapo and Brownshirts while we're at it. Let's nip this thing in the bud. These kinds of organizations are contrary to the interests of peace and freedom.
If you hate the country's government so much, why don't you just move to Canada? I don't understand why you feel the need to whine about a perfectly just government system which prevents abuse. Is there a type of government you'd prefer over the government of the United States?

Meth labs? Naw, I'm not interested in raiding any meth labs myself.
What's stopping you? Do us all a favor and try and raid one. I don't think you would even have the guts to walk upto one. Trigger happy people like you give us all a bad name. It's best to let the trained professionals do what they're trained to do. Has the local SWAT team raided your home for criticizing the government? No? That alone seperates Reno and the rest from Hitler.

I would sooner live in a society watched over by socially responsible armed citizens then a bunch of hired goons.
Hi, welcome to reality. There will never be a society watched over by socially responsible armed citizens because guess what, not everyone will be responsible, thus- we have a political system designed to protect you so you can log on the internet and whine about the government. :rolleyes:

It's to ensure the security of a free state. If there were free American men in the vicinity of the North Hollywood shootout, how many hits from a scoped .308 bolt action do you think the criminals with the AKs and body armor could have taken?
Maybe you've seen too many action films as a kid, but I'd rather let the police and military deal with people running around with AKs and body armor. If you want to take justice into your own hands so badly, why don't you just do it? Face it, you're afraid of the consequences and you'll never follow up on your actions. You're the type of person who would jump at a chance to use a gun. :rolleyes: Now, please- stop whining. I insist.

As for the movie, I haven't seen the previews, but anything with Samuel L. Jackson is good in my book. :cool:
 
when people (i.e. your family) get taken hostage, people's lives are in danger, meth labs running rampant, what're you gonna do? you gonna go get your posse and go breakin down the door and get your family killed? or would you rather have people skilled and trained in that area doing it? i'll take a swat team bustin in to save my family over anyone here any day thanks, i must be evil :rolleyes:
 
when people (i.e. your family) get taken hostage, people's lives are in danger, meth labs running rampant, what're you gonna do? you gonna go get your posse and go breakin down the door and get your family killed? or would you rather have people skilled and trained in that area doing it? i'll take a swat team bustin in to save my family over anyone here any day thanks, i must be evil

Shhhh- Ignorance will take care of itself. You might upset Darwin if you introduce logic! ;) ;) ;) :neener:
 
I would sooner live in a society watched over by socially responsible armed citizens then a bunch of hired goons.

Historically known as vigilance committees.

Just off-paw, I'd say that the ratio of bad apples/good guys amongst your local vigilantes is going to equal the number of thugs/good cops in your local department.

Minimum. Vigilance committees weren't historically known for demanding a pysch profile on those wanting to join up.

Ah, the Good Old Days. Always rose-coloured... well, up until old Fred Wrongplacewrongtime winds up as the target for a lynch mob.

And have you ever seen a mob punished? Cops beat down a motorist and not only do they get tried in a court of law, they get tried twice in courts for the same crime. (Something in Ye Olde Constitution about that, but these were cops so that part was just a technicality.)

Mob beats down a motorist, and sets part of LA on fire, and loot, and wrecks the neighborhood, and what happens? Yeah.

Socially Responsible Armed Citizens.

I'm pretty sure that was how the Ku Klux Klan described themselves waa-aaay back in the Halcyon Days of Yore "When nobody was edumicated in them thar Dewey Re-education Centers, and there weren't no gun control laws and a man could carry whatever shootin' arn he saw fit. And there weren't no SWAT teams, and the Fed.Gov kept it's snout outen a man's persnal bizness."

Yes, sir, that's the society I want to live in. Just one friendly cop, and a group of Socially Responsible Armed Citizens to keep things* on the Straight and Narrow.

LawDog

*Like them damned uppity [insert race, creed, sex, religion, nationality, profession, sexuality, or appearance here]
 
"If you hate the country's government so much, why don't you just move to Canada? I don't understand why you feel the need to whine about a perfectly just government system which prevents abuse. Is there a type of government you'd prefer over the government of the United States?"

There's no government anywhere I'd prefer to live with than a responsible US government that actually cared about freedom and constitutional law. That isn't what we have.

"What's stopping you? Do us all a favor and try and raid one. I don't think you would even have the guts to walk upto one. Trigger happy people like you give us all a bad name. It's best to let the trained professionals do what they're trained to do. Has the local SWAT team raided your home for criticizing the government? No? That alone seperates Reno and the rest from Hitler."

Well, as I said, I don't think military-style raids are the answer. Maybe you didn't read that part? At any rate the reason I haven't been served a no-knock warrant yet is because I don't go around raiding meth labs. It's one thing to get into the occasional shouting or shoving match with an unruly troglodyte, but quite another to shoot up a house or an apartment. The powers that be don't look kindly on that kind of thing. Funny though, I remember reading an article a day or two ago on these forums about how some cop blew away a goose for scaring his dog. Which is funny, because there was also an incident where another cop blew away a relatively inoffensive family's lap dog during a traffic stop because it was trying to outflank him... :rolleyes:

"Hi, welcome to reality. There will never be a society watched over by socially responsible armed citizens because guess what, not everyone will be responsible, thus- we have a political system designed to protect you so you can log on the internet and whine about the government."

Sorry, but the government and its agents, despite their efforts to drive a wedge between "us" and "them," is composed of a nothing other than a sampling of our own population. They are not supermen. They are not morally superior. They aren't intellectually superior. Our political machine did a really great job protecting us from 9-11 and securing our borders...

"Maybe you've seen too many action films as a kid, but I'd rather let the police and military deal with people running around with AKs and body armor. If you want to take justice into your own hands so badly, why don't you just do it? Face it, you're afraid of the consequences and you'll never follow up on your actions. You're the type of person who would jump at a chance to use a gun. Now, please- stop whining. I insist."

No, not really. I have little interest in shooting or killing people. I rather want to avoid that sort of thing. Which is precisely why I encourage taking corrective action now, while things still aren't too bad and there is a good chance to salvage our nation. The way things are going, they never have worked out, they never will. It gets bigger, more complex, more oprressive, more insufferable, and eventually it eithers collapses or experiences revolution. How do you think this country came into being in the first place? Because colonial England was a really great place to live?

I don't know if you yourself are a government employee or in law enforcement, maybe you just think you're being patriotic. Patriotism, Americanism, has nothing to do with gladly accepting shackles or blindly supporting whatever position your government decides to take. Perhaps you like what's being built here. That's your right. Just the same, I prefer the real United States of America, as originally envisioned and intended. I don't want my children's children, or their children, to be forced with making the decision to either risk open rebellion or live in a poverty-ridden Orwellian nightmare. It's so predictable. It's happened so many times before. I cannot fathom why things are allowed to continue to progress in such dangerous directions.

Lawdog, I just saw your post. On the chance you are a current LEO, I say restore my faith in the institution. Refuse to enforce unjust, immoral or unconstitutional laws. Encourage others in your line of work to do the same. Prove me wrong.
 
I would sooner live in a society watched over by socially responsible armed citizens then a bunch of hired goons.

Hello, and thank you for tuning into this weeks episode of You Bet Your Life!

Yes, folks, it's the final round and let's give a hearty welcome to our contestant:
Miss Kitty Genovese!

Now, Miss Genovese, as you know, this is the final round. We are going to offer you a choice. If you make the right choice, you go home. If you make the wrong choice, well, we're talking thirty minutes of rape, torture and murder.

Ready? Let's see what's behind door #1...

It's the New York City SWAT team! They're big! They're bad! They wear black BDUs! They carry MP5 submachine guns! Libertarians hate their guts!

Okay, now for door #2...

Your fellow citizens! They're your neighbors! They're your friends! They see you every day in the halls!

Now, since this is the Grand Prize Round, we're going to throw in an extra wrinkle: Your fellow citizens don't have to put themselves in danger!

Yes, Miss Genovese, your fellow citizens don't actually have to physically get involved!

They don't have to shoot the Bad Guys!

They don't have to approach the Bad Guys!

They don't even have to open a window and yell at the Bad Guys!

Yes, Miss Genovese, that is correct! All that your fellow citizens have to do is pick up the phone and call the police!

How's
that for a deal, folks?!

Now, Kitty Genovese, it's time to BET YOUR LIFE! Are you going to pick Door #1: The evil, despicable, tyrannical NYPD SWAT team? Or are you going to pick Door #2: Your fellow citizens?

Think carefully now, because this is:
You Bet Your Life!

LawDog
 
No, not really. I have little interest in shooting or killing people. I rather want to avoid that sort of thing. Which is precisely why I encourage taking corrective action now, while things still aren't too bad and there is a good chance to salvage our nation. The way things are going, they never have worked out, they never will. It gets bigger, more complex, more oprressive, more insufferable, and eventually it eithers collapses or experiences revolution. How do you think this country came into being in the first place? Because colonial England was a really great place to live?

yeah, and getting rid of police'll make everything much safer



Well, as I said, I don't think military-style raids are the answer. Maybe you didn't read that part?

but carrying guns is the answer? isn't that miltary-esque? you're right, we should ask all the drug dealers to throw down their weapons and pick up flowers



btw skunk, is that you at hkpro.com in the members section?
 
Just the same, I prefer the real United States of America, as originally envisioned and intended.

Really?

Are you sure about that? Certain persons only counting as 3/5's of a real person, voting restricted to landholders, and all that?

LawDog
 
1. Skunk: okay - it may be a great movie to rent and watch with a few beers but it's not gonna have me paying any bucks to sit in a theater for it.

2. While it's amusing to run into the tinfoil hat types from time to time, I think we'll do ourselves and THR a collective favor by ignoring the 'jbts behind every tree, rock and bush' types, y'know? If they're ignored long enough eventually they realize that their vaunted 'revolution' ain't gonna happen here any time soon and leave for other pastures.

3. That being said I'd submit that a good deal of the proliferation of ERT/SWAT teams occurred during the last decade or so as more federal equipment and so forth became available to local and state LE agencies. Let's face it folks, while there is certainly a demonstrable need for at least a limited combat response capability in urban areas and other locations where there is known organized gang activity, a lot of other places have an ERT simply because they were able to get the funding, it's cool, and they get to play with neat toys. I guess the question is how to get some of these folks to cool their jets a bit...and that's one thing I haven't seen really addressed anywhere yet.
 
ahadams, I agree that "neat toys" (or as I call it the Iwannacoolgun virus) drives a lot of this. There is nothing inherently wrong with it.

What drives me crazy and makes me very nervous is the complete lack of training that accompanies the cool gear. The police brass or the city council buys them the HK54 and does not send them to skul and we are shocked when tragedy ensues. Couple the hardware with software, with the understanding that software trumps hardware.

As for getting some communities to cool their jets (are you referring to that 60 Minutes piece on podunk Florida departments with helicopter and IFVs?), that is an issue for the taxpayers in each community. This taxpayer would prefer to spend the money on training, but the federal grant may not cover that.:(
 
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