Skyrocketing Ammo Prices!!!

Everything was high at the gun show last week, guns and ammo.

I told my friend I feel sorry for people that have to pay these prices for factory ammo.

And reloading components are going up. Primers that cost $12-$14/1,000 a few months ago cost $19-$20 now. Powder that was $14/pound is $20 now.
Lead bullets that were $14-$18/500 are $20-$25 now.
Still a lot cheaper than store bought but getting expensive none the less.

I just bought 24,000 primers for $16.20/1,000 and a few months ago I would have laughed at $16/1,000.


One of the arguments about buying a FN 5.7 has been the cost of ammo.
This week at the show much of the pistol ammo was within a few dollars of the 5.7x28.

mr rick

since lead is mined out of the ground mixed with all sorts of stuff, that dosn't make sense. I would cast it.

I'm not sure if what I'm about to post will make many of you happy but you deserve the truth so here goes. December 1st Magtech 9MM 115 Gr. ammo went up 14.8% at the distributor level and the rest of their loads went up somewhere between 9.5% and 15%. Winchester has announced an increase of about 13% January 1st and don't be suprised if the ATK group goes up by a similar amount. After lurking on this site for many years I've noticed that the word most commonly used when discussing training ammunition is "cheap" . Well friends I think we all might as well remove that word from our vocabulary as it applies to ammunition. To make matters worse Winchester in my opinion is up to it's neck in unfunded liabilities like retirements and other accrued benefits for their employees because they "kept the lines running" and crawled into bed with Wal-Mart and sold ammunition much cheaper than they really should have. My guess is that Winchester is probably going to start to purchase Winchester branded product manufactured outside the country to return to profitability on promotional loads. This results in a loss of American jobs and also will contribute to periods of uncertain availibility due to transportation issues and the fact that foreign companies have commitments to other customers. For those of you who want to wait till the price comes down before purchasing ammunition you should not plan on doing much shooting in the future. And while price increases are nothing new I've never in my 35 years in the firearms industry seen such frequent or such large price increases as we're seeing right now. All of this brings to mind a word that friends have used for years: Ustacould: For example I ustacould by new unissued 98K Mausers for $20.00 apiece and I ustacould by Chevron 106 Octane white pump gas for 36 cents a gallon to feed our high compression hot rods. Well in the not too distant future everyone that worships at the altar of Wal-Mart for "WWB" will say I ustacould buy 100 rounds of 9MM WWB for $15.95. What a sad sad day for the American sportsman.

I used to scavage lead bullets out of range backstop, but some old timers told me that microscopic bits of sand and dirt in the lead will not separate out when melting for casting. So, you'll be firing "sandy" bullets through your bore which will not be good for the bore.

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Complete and total BS. Lead MELTS, silicon doesn't, not at 600 or so degrees anyway. Just dip off the slag, got to anyway. The sand/dirt floats to the top, less dense than the lead. I use range scrap, have for 20 years. It's free and effective and all my guns still shoot accurately as ever. My lead pot pours off the bottom out of a spigot. I don't dip it off the top, further keeps the slag out of my bullets.

Oh, btw, now high ammo prices are all Walmart's fault? ROFLMFAO Now THERE's a new twist on Walmart bashing organized labor hasn't used, yet! ROFL!

I'm thinkin' supply and demand here, but then, that's what I understood in highschool economics. Just gives me further reason to use that range scrap! I sorta don't see how it could be all Winchester's fault seeing as Winchester isn't the only manufacturer. I mean, WOLF is made in RUSSIA and you can't buy it at Wallyworld!

I used to scavage lead bullets out of range backstop, but some old timers told me that microscopic bits of sand and dirt in the lead will not separate out when melting for casting. So, you'll be firing "sandy" bullets through your bore which will not be good for the bore.

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Your old-timers obviously know nothing about metal casting, how the impurities float to the top of the heavier metal or burn off. The slag is skimmed off and thrown away before casting, or the molten metal is just tapped from the bottom of the pot to avoid the floating slag layer. The same principles apply, whether it's lead or steel...and since lead is so dense, most everything else will rise to the top. Suggest they read a book about steel mills and how they operate, perhaps?

The only thing I see people forgetting to do with lead casting is to have a good exhaust fan sucking away the fumes above the melt pot. Lead vapors are not good for your brain.

Nothing in my post blamed Wal-Mart for higher ammo prices. I don't know how you make that connection. High prices for metals and dramatically increased transportation costs are what caused the unusually large increases in ammunition prices. BTW while you were ROTFLYAO you hijacked the thread and that's not polite. Remember this is THR.

Big sigh! Even Walmart prices aren't that good on anything other than 9mm. My wallet almost floated away after buying a couple boxes of 45 cal WWB last week. The one hundred round pack of 9mm WWB is still around $12 bucks, but I spent more than $20/box for 45 cal. I haven't even seen any closeout specials in ages. I hate paying more for 380 than I do for 9mm.

edison

Folks, I work retail in firearms as many others who frequent here do. Wholesale is up about 25% to 40% on ammo due to the increased cost of components.

I think scrap copper, component of brass as well as bullets, to $5 a pound. So that reflects in ammunition. I know lead is also up.

Not to mention with the recent election there is a bit of a "whats going to happen next" factor.

I will wager it is going to be another "here we go again" roller coaster on firearms and accessories over the next election cycle or two.

We had it good for a while. :banghead:

I

I just keep cruising the internet until I find "sale" items for ammo. In addition, I sign up for their sale alerts. I recently paid $13 for Win 9MM 100 count at Walmart and bought 10 boxes. A local gun store sends me an email each month for 25% off on anything minimum $100-so I spend $100 and get it for $75. You just need to work harder today to save money.

The main reason I got into reloading. Since my wife and I both shoot, the 550B paid for itself in a half year. Dick's had Remington on sale recently.

I just keep cruising the internet until I find "sale" items for ammo. In addition, I sign up for their sale alerts. I recently paid $13 for Win 9MM 100 count at Walmart and bought 10 boxes.

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Thats why I reload. I can load 100 rounds of 9mm for $7 and have better quality ammo. If you buy enough supplies you will still be loading at the same price as ammo continues to go up.
Rusty

I don't know how you non-reloaders do it, I went through 10K last year in .45 ACP reloads alone and the components are getting expensive, I shudder to think what factory would have cost.

I get Penn bullets for $100 per 2000 delivered (have to love the USPS flat Rate) and I buy my primers and powder from the skeet range on post. Primers are still around $18 per 1000 if you buy them in 5K flats, and I get 4 lbs of WW231 for around $62.

The key is to buy in bulk, but even bulk isn't cheap anymore. Unfortunately, I do believe it's a raw material/resource thing, so I don't think it's going to get better.

Chuck

Ammunition isn't up, the dollar is down. We're paying for out-of-control Republican deficit spending.

On the bright side, show your wife the price change and explain to her that you need to "invest" more in guns and ammunition as an inflation hedge. It could be a good idea... gold has already more than doubled in the last couple of years, so ammo could be a better deal.

Yes prices have spiked recently, but we must put things in perspective.

In another thread here someone posted copies of old gun ads along with the $85 Garands was corrosive .45ACP ball for $5/100. Considering you'd probably jump at the chance to buy one of those $85 rifles for 10X the original price, current ammo prices of $10-12/50 for non-corrosive ammo is still actually better than back in the "good old days" factoring in inflation.

--wally.

Wally has a very good point.

I forgot how many time I have heard when working retail, "I remember when I could by that Smith Revolver for $39." I also was making about $1.25 an hour back then.

Keeping things in perspective.

I don't know. I have a feeling SOMEONE along the supply chain from manufacturer through importer to retail HAS to be making more profit than they were before. Of course they won't admit it, but Im feeling this is simply supply and demand at work and someone somewhere is happily gouging their ammo customers without a corresponding increase in their own cost.

I reload for one reason and one reason only: cost savings. However, casting your own bullets really only makes sense for pistol loads and even then there is a LOT of labor and time involved from turning a bunch of scrap lead/linotype into a pile of 1000 sized and lubed bullets ready to be used in your progressive loader. Until someone comes up with a way to cast bullets in a mold with a LOT more than six slots at a time that doesnt require separate sizing and lubing then the labor isnt worth it. Youre better off buying finished hard cast lead bullets from online sources like scharch.

For rifle, youre still better off buying pulled surplus projectiles. In the case of powder, though, surplus has lost its advantage. Eight pound W846 jugs went from $64 plus shipping/hazmat to $89 plus shipping/hazmat ($20 HAZMAT generally waived if you buy 4+ jugs). Thats still not much better than the $98+tax I pay for much more consistent new commercial BLC2 at Sportsmans Whorehouse. Primers are getting more expensive. The best price I've seen lately for Winchester WLP/WLR/WSP/WSR primers is $17.50/1000 (and no discount when you buy a 5k case) when just a year or so ago they were $14/1000. Get them now and get as many as you possibly can.

Get them now and get as many as you possibly can.

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And experience the law of supply and demand in action -- a spike in demand will cause a spike in prices unless a spike in supply somehow happens at the same time!

--wally.

Well its not a totally automatic thing. SOMEone somewhere along the supply chain has to make the conscious decision to raise the price. Sure, your average gun shop owner may see primers flying off the shelves and thing "gee, I bet theyd still buy em if I raised the price $2" and then just do that the same day but I doubt its such an easy or fast process with huge big box stores like Cabela's or Sportsman's Warehouse. They're more likely to raise the price only in response to THEIR cost going up. Bubba at the corner gun shop probably isnt paying any more for primers than he did six months ago especialy since he doesnt need to order that often either, but Cabela's might make several orders a month from CCI or Winchester and only raise their price when CCI or Winchester does.

I will wager it is going to be another "here we go again" roller coaster on firearms and accessories over the next election cycle or two.

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Yeah, wasn't that long ago in the Clintonista era when you couldn't FIND a friggin' primer anywhere around here. There were orders backordered 3 months. It was a glorious day when Eller's Hunting Post called to tell my my primer order had finally made it.

One thing I like about rollin' my own is consistency of my ammo. I ain't out buying PMC at this price, Remington at that price, CCI over here. All my ammo uses the same bullet I cast myself (or store bought bullet for hunting/defense) and the same charge. The primer might vary, but I use Winchester primers pretty much exclusively. They always have the same POI I've set the sights for, always as accurate. I've noticed buying different 9mm 115 grain FMJ from three manufacturers my P11 shoots three different places in elevation with three different factory loads using the same bullet weight. I prefer consistency.

I don't shoot as much as some folks anymore. I'll put a couple hundred rounds down range at most every couple of weeks. I can keep up with that casting since I have the time in my partial retirement. Casting is the slowest part of the process. Back when I was burning more ammo and shooting IDPA, it was harder to keep up. I've got progressive reloaders, so the loading part doesn't take much. I am rewarded for my time, though, by consistently accurate loads. All I really have to worry a lot about is staying in primers. A can of Bullseye lasts me a long time.

Reload, reload reload!!! I have been practicing with reloads for many years that I make and yes, lead has gone up also but not as significantly as copper. I still carry defense loads I buy for CCW. Steve 48

We've had 2 prices increases from Winchester in the last 6 months.
They say it is because of the cost of the raw materials. Blaim China for buying it up in crazy large quantities.

If it gets too spendy we can always just yell "Bang!"

SOMEone somewhere along the supply chain has to make the conscious decision to raise the price

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That someone is the manufacturer.

factory direct cost of product = cost of materials + cost of production + cost of doing business (taxes, conforming to OSHA & EPA regs etc) + profit.

When cost of materials goes up the price of the very next batch from the factory will be higher. Every step in the supply chain adds a markup, usually a percentage which does inflate the retail price a bit more than the manufacturer's percentage wholesale price increase, sort of a compound intrest. You'll always get the best price buy buying as close to the maker as possible.

It helps to remember, businesses never pay taxes, the customers who buy the products or services pay them.

--wally.

I've heard rumours around here that Wal-mart in CA will stop carrying ammo altogether after the first of the year, can anyone else confirm? - despite some price rises Wal-Mart has still been the cheapest. I plan to stock up some between now and the first.