.22 LR and Handguns

I've heard many folks in many settings use .22 lr. These folks had training and fired a lot of .22 lr in training.

Training is the key.

My take is, if a person is limited, no matter what this "limitation is" be it physical, finances, legislative - whatever...

The person that has "trained" and continues to "train" with a .22 rim-fire, putting in the time and effort, and consistently gets quick accurate hits on ping pong balls, golf balls, even a tennis ball - IMO - is better armed with knowledge, training and .22 rim-fire handgun than someone that has a centerfire, shot a cylinder/ magazine through it, loaded the gun with really neat defense ammunition and stuck it in a sock drawer and only handles the gun when putting up clean socks.


Fact is , most folks would do well to shoot more quality / train with a .22 rim-fire that closely matches CCW, Hunting and other centerfire firearm uses.
For sure, many would be better off buying a .22 handgun - especially a revolver as their first handgun. Ditto for a .22 bolt rifle as first rifle.

The gun has to run. It has to feed and extract. IF the gun does not do these two things, this other stuff is not important at all.
Makes no difference on what kind of gun, caliber , type of ammunition or nothing.

Just a gun shaped something holding ctgs - might as well be a paperweight.

I suppose the best bet might be 40gr solids run through Paco Kelly's accurizer tool which puts a slight cup point on it. Should provide a good mix of penetration and tissue disruption. The fast hollow points probably can no be counted on for penetration and without that you have nothing. BTW as a data point the federal copper washed HPs clock about 900 to 950 through my worn H&R 999 with 6" barrel. Chances are that derringer velocities will be much lower. don't count on any hollowpoint being predictable.

mike

I voted for the 40 grain, based on all the ballistics info I have seen on manufacturers web sites. They always seem to deliver the most energy. You would think a 50 grain would, but not so. The only 60 grain I know of is the Acquilla sub-sonic stuff. 60 grain bullet on top of a .22 short case. I wouldn't count on that for much.

They say that .22s have killed more people than any other caliber, aside from in warfare. Most .22 LRs will go right through a human head, without too much trouble. They not only work for the Mosad. They work pretty well for hit-men too, from what I understand.

Remington Yellow Jackets

Well the Remington Yellow Jacket, 33-grain hollow point, @ 1500fps is my favorite. It's very accurate in my Ruger Mk III, 22/45.

Looks like there are mucho Mk III owners here.

The CCI Velocitor is worth a look, this may be the best choice for the short barrel 22lr.

Sorry, if these where solid points they might be the better choice.

Quote: "LHB1, When did I say I was going to use a .22 as a SD weapon? When did I say I was going to trust my life to a .22? "

Chill out. You asked "If you are going to shoot a .22LR round out of a 2.4" barrel handgun which .22LR round would be more effective as a man stopper?" That implies the use of it for self defense.

"You said you weren't going to contribute to this discussion and you didn't lie, nothing you said contributed to this discussion. I think your post was very arrogant and you shouldn't post if you have nothing to add. I'm not some little kid on the corner you think you have the right to kick around. Don't be so condescending next time, it's insulting and I highly resent it." So, get over it. Anyone asking about using the .22 LR as a "manstopper" should expect such an answer. In fact, I thought my answer was polite and to the point. You don't have to read it if you don't like it. As far as "manstoppers" go, I don't think .22 LR is anywhere near that category. As Robert Ruark wrote "Use Enough Gun".

Have a good day and watch your blood pressure.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

I would be willing to bet money that most the people saying ".22 WONT STOP NOBODY!!!" have never been shot with one ..

tnieto2004: Well, you'd lose that bet. Actually, I guess you did say "most" and that covers you

I didn't vote because my 5-shot NAA derringer is in .22 Magnum. I would go with the early responses: whichever one delivers the highest energy. Also, since your available energy range is relatively low, I'd stay away from hollow-points & go with solids for best penetration.

I'd prefer my 22 bullet to be a 75gr doing about 2700fps.

ArchAngelCD, you're splitting hairs. It's not going to make a difference which of those you use.

Get the most reliable ammo (in other words, don't buy Remington Golden Bullet value packs). Buy something decent that will probably cost a bit more than $11 a brick. Get something with a high velocity, but more importantly, get a round nose, not an HP. You want the deepest penetration possible.

Oh yea, and practice shooting until the mag's empty, then reloading a new mag and emptying that.

Go For Penetration (heavy slug)

". . .22LR round out of a 2.4" barrel. . . .?"

Forget about shock power, it isn't going to happen with a 2" barrel in any caliber especially a .22. The only thing you can hope for is penetration.

A heavy slow moving slug will penetrate deeper than a fast light weight slug. All though out of a 2.4" barrel it almost doesn't matter, it will be the same as poking holes in the guy with a Philips screw driver, the only difference is the heavier slug will poke a little bit deeper hole.

Myth Busters shot a slow moving 9mm pistol at a long stack of ballistics gel and in penetrated several feet, then they shot it with 30-06 with hollow points, the .30-06 only penetrated about 6" or 9". The .30-06 had tremendous shock value, the bullet exploded with a shock wave sending the block of gel into the air, in an animal it probably feels like a miniature nuke going off in the body complete destruction of everything in it's 6" blast radius and sending a stunning shock wave though the rest of the body, but it didn't penetrate very far.

The fact is heavy slower moving slugs penetrate deeper that fast light slugs. Kind of like an arrow shot from a bow, it will penetrate very deep even though it is moving very slow.

If you use a hyper vel .22 with it's light weight slug in a 2" barrel this is what will happen:

The light slug will leave the barrel sooner and half the powder will burn out side the barrel in a muzzle flash. Only half the powder will be used to push the bullet, and the bullet is light weight, compounding the problem. So now you have a lighter slug with less powder behind it. With the heavier slower moving slug, more powder will be used to push the bullet transferring more of the powder’s energy to the target. In this case the energy to penetrate deeper.

side note:

BTW
T/C once posted that a .22LR will reach it's maximum Velocity in a 10" barrel, any length after that the bullet is just coasting. Roughly speaking that would mean that it takes 10" for the powder to burn up completely, so in a 2" barrel you might say, very roughly, that 2/10th of the powder is used to push the bullet (plus or minus a big margin).

It would be nice to take a hacksaw to the range, starting with a 16" contender barrel and keep cutting 2" off the barrel as you chronagraph the velocity of each length from 16" down to 2".

The wt. and velocity aren't as important as reliability. There was a point in my life when the only firearm I owned was a .22 pistol. I kept it loaded with CCI Stingers. I don't recall the wt. but they are high-velocity rds. The reason I picked them was that they had NEVER given me or anyone I know an ammo related malfunction.

Cheap rimfire ammo will give occasional FTF.

SD tactics for a .22 HG: draw, empty the mag into the attacker, have a sap or knife as a secondary weapon.

A .22 is certainly not the best option for SD but sometimes we have to make do with what we have.

age old debate

One last note about the age old debate over high velocity small projectile verses low velocity heavy projectile.

Rifles have the edge on high speed shock, in hand guns you will never have the velocity and shock value that a rifle can deliver.

Because all bullets from a snub nose will be slow, in a snub nose hand gun you need to go for the biggest hole with the deepest penetration to create the largest wound possible, that means the largest caliber with the heaviest bullet for a large deep hole.

My personal preference is the Stinger for a few reasons. I've used the round in hunting and know that it performs at least on jackrabbits and squirrels. I know that it is accurate in the guns I use which is probably most important.

You need to try all the rounds in your particular gun and find the one that gives the best performance and accuracy at the same time. The speed numbers are really irrelevant here as the numbers need to come from your gun, not a factory test barrel. .22's are notorious for preferring one brand over another when it comes to accuracy so you need to do some solid personal testing to know what yours will and will not do with a certain ammo.

a .22 can be great fun, but finding the ammo it likes can be a chore even if the rewards are worth it.

Just to throw water on a few folks, if a .22 is what you've got then by gosh it's what you'll use. Anybody who says they'll throw away a loaded gun to trust a knife or their fighting skills is either a liar or an idiot and I don't have much time for either one.

Solids for optimal penetration

... of that bunch; 36 gr @ 1410 fps. Remington Viper LRN.

40 gr Gold Dot HP @ 1450 fps sounds good to me

I thought the Viper was more conical in shape....


Just to stay on topic, I'd go with 40 grain myself.

If you or your friend could test different cartridges out of the derringer to find what is best ..

Here's what I would suggest for some testing benchmarks :


*Solids - The harder, the better (Most, if not all hollow point .22lr bullets are for very small game and will possibly shatter or parachute in a human target, failing to adequately penetrate.)


*Function (shoot as many as you need to feel confident that the rounds will indeed fire.)


*Accuracy (self explanatory.)


*Power, a balancing act (Based upon the hardness of the bullet. Go too fast and risk fragmentation of the bullet. Although not likely out of the derringer.)


Set up a piece of 3/4" plywood to (roughly) simulate the chest plate or cranial bone and eliminate any that won't pass through. Paper milk jugs filled with water behind the plywood maybe.

Report findings back to THR!


PS. I'll be running some of my own backyard testing in the very near future and will likewise report my findings. {5.9" bbl semi-auto}