Those of you who've hunted with a handgun. Do you still believe in stopping power?

[R.W.Dale]

This poll is for those of us who have hunted with various handgun cartridges. After witnessing the results of what the terminal effects of a handgun round on game are do you still believe in "stopping power" as it relates to defensive handguning.

Please elaborate on your hunting experiences.

Mine are from shooting various smaller pest, game and varmint critters with what are considered to be defensive loads. An example is I've noted that no matter how good the body hit a cor-bon .380 HP and a 115g 9mm JHP neither will not keep an armadillo from getting to it's hole. Sometimes a great distance away. A blast from a .410 at the same ranges and it's lights out.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

3 deer shot with a 45 ACP...all 3 dropped within 30 yards, all one shot kills (1 was dead before he hit the ground...dropped in his tracks), at ranges from 15 to 45 yards. The ammo used was factory loaded Remington 230 grain Golden Sabres and the pistol is a Les Baer stainless Stinger (4.25 inch barrel on an officers frame)...there is a pretty good sized thread over on 1911forum about it...Its called "I killed a deer with a 230 grain Golden Sabre"...

I have seen deer hit good with a 270, 30-06, 308, Etc. run farther than that...SHOT PLACEMENT IS STOPPING POWER.

Edited to add a link to the 1911forum thread: I killed a deer with a 230 grain Golden Sabre

 

[3 gun]

There is no such thing as stopping power. A poor shot with a .500 S&W is a day following a blood trial and a perfect shot with a 22mag is dinner. More power gives you more chances to find and use that good shot. There is no magic bullet or caliber. Only the skills you have to use your tools to their best advantage. A good hunter with a 357mag pistol will fill the freezer faster than a bad hunter with anything you give him short of an air strike. I voted 6 of one...

 

[TAB]

I don't beleave any chambering has stoping power... I've shot a charging pig with a 30-06 at close range and had the bullets fail to pentrait its skull.

 

[herohog]

Hunting WHAT with WHAT? Not a "fair" or valid question worded as is if you will. As others have have pointed out, shot placement it 1/2 the game as well.

 

[mtngunr]

You folk replying might want to refresh or add to your memory banks exactly what a one-shot-stop is defined as......very few high-powered rifles meet that criteria....I don't believe in any one-shot-stop with anything unless the spine or brain is hit....well, point-blank with a howitzer or an airburst nuclear weapon would pass muster....

 

[herohog]

The question was:

After hunting with a handgun do you still buy into "stopping power"

I've stopped many a squirrel in its tracks with a .22 to the head from a pistol. Again. Poorly worded question. The parameters need defining. Are we talking self defense (Man) or Bear or Wild Boar? Each would elicit a far different answer.

 

[wyocarp]

I don't beleave any chambering has stoping power... I've shot a charging pig with a 30-06 at close range and had the bullets fail to pentrait its skull.

Although a 30-06 is a good hunting rifle, I wouldn't say that it has much stopping power or ability to penetrate tough bone.

 

[livebythegun]

You folk replying might want to refresh or add to your memory banks exactly what a one-shot-stop is defined as......very few high-powered rifles meet that criteria....I don't believe in any one-shot-stop with anything unless the spine or brain is hit....well, point-blank with a howitzer or an airburst nuclear weapon would pass muster.... Spoken like someone who knows very little about guns or hunting. I hunt with a .243 among others and it will put a deer down if shot in the vitals(heart, lungs). I have had deer drop in their tracks with my Winchester 94 in .45 long colt, again with shots to the vitals.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Colt 4 3/4" SAA Second generation. Winchester cases. 18.5 grains of W-296 under a 140 grain Remington SJHP. WSPM primer. And real close. Bullet placement is a good idea too.

 

[rcmodel]

I've shot a charging pig with a 30-06 at close range and had the bullets fail to pentrait its skull.

I call Shenanigans on that one right there!
A 30-06 with the proper hunting bullet will shoot through a pig lengthways!
Perhaps you should get some hunting ammo and stop using varmint loads or whatever it was you were using.

As for the OP question, there is no such thing as a one-shot stop, unless the brain or spine is hit.

A "one-shot-stop" as used in reference to SD, and a one shot stop or kill as used in referance to hunting are two completely different things.

Many times an animal will run 25 - 50 -75 yards with a fatal shot to the heart / lung area. And it will stop when it runs out of blood. You follow the blood trail, and there it is, deader then dead.

In hunting, that is of no consequence, but in a gunfight, the "dead man walking" could kill you several times while he bleeds out enough to stop fighting.

Is there such a thing as a one-shot-stop?

Maybe, sometimes, but never always without fail, regardless of the caliber.

rcmodel

 

[livebythegun]

I have to disagree with you on this one. I have had more than one animal drop from a shot to the vitals. In fact the last deer that I shot with my Win. 94AE .45 Colt flipped over backwards and never even twitched. It was quartering to me and I shot it right in the chest with 255gr. Winchester SuperX Silvertips. I also shot one last year with my .308 quartering away on the side of a hill. She fell right where she stood and slid down the hill about 20 feet.

 

[rcmodel]

I said "many times an animal will run", not "it will run every time!"

Certainly, many times a animal will drop in its tracks and not even twitch. A 22-250 chest shot coyote comes to mind.

My point was, you simply cannot count on an animal, or a man, doing it every time you shoot one with a handgun caliber.

Another thing to consider is, that deer that dropped in his tracks probably wasn't using Crack or PCP.

It wasn't even charged with adrenalin, because it had no idea it was going to be shot.

rcmodel

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Colt 4 3/4" SAA Second generation. Winchester cases. 18.5 grains of W-296 under a 140 grain Remington SJHP. WSPM primer. And real close. Bullet placement is a good idea too.

That must be a .357 SAA.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Yup...A 1966 Colt SAA .357 magnum...

 

[jonboynumba1]

well...

I trust a gun to stop something....not all guns and calibers are equal but they are closer to each-other than they are a rifle. Shot placement and bullet design and selection are important. Nothing under .40 (with the exception of .357 maybe) would be my choice for hunting .44s haveworked extremely well. It will make you realize why you have a magazine if something scarry runs at you after the first shot! I've seen a 200# + buck killed dead on the spot with a 9mm JHP round and I've seen stuff shot with a hot .44 run hundreds of yards. I believe smaller calibers penetrate easier but large calibers kill better....assuming the bullet is of adequate weight to penetrate well. Forget about shock power...you need a good sized hole all the way through the animal in a place that causes them to drop...it also has to survive bones without blowing up. Many of todays better deffensive JHP bullets can make excellent hunting bullets...some not so much. You need something accurate and reliable....more than that you need marksmanship tempered by good judgement to know when not to try the shot in question.

You will be trying for a clean one shot kill so 1200+ FPS in something .40+calof prefferably 200+ grains would color in my idea of a good choice. Though less certainly can work...but that sounds a whole lot like what Elmer Keith found over a LIFETIME of shooting things with handguns. That is what the .44 mag pretty well does. HP's have come a long way but that just makes a proven recipe better. Taming it down for control and faster accurate shooting you see why the .45acp and .45 colt loads have worked so well for so long. Not to say 9mm isn't a viable deffensive tool...I have and would carry one...you can shoot as many times as you need afterall. But all things being equal I like my calibers to start with a "4" and for shooting plates ect I find the flatnosed .40 ball ammo does better than RN 9mm ball for plinking (the added weight helps to) In .45 it was a light 200gr SWC load of I think 5.1 gr Unique (without looking) The 180gr .40 ball does just as well with just a little more recoil in my G22. I got tired of loading and messing with lead bullets anyway. So now I do everything with my .40...I kinda want a G20 to play with in 10mm (very .41 mag-like) If they come out with an SF model I'll buy one.

It's hard to beat a Ruger SBH or S&W 29/629 for handgun hunting though...and you don't need the hotest ammo money can buy for deer and smaller either....1200-1300 withe a 200-240gr pill works plenty fine as long as you choose the right bullet and find something your gun shoots well in a proven design.

 

[CYANIDEGENOCIDE]

Very subjective. Stopping power yes, the one shot instantaneous death does not exist unless you splatter brain (sorry for being graphic). The only that ever kills people or animals is suffocation. If you can stop oxygen from getting to the brain the creature will die. Stopping power is the shockwave you can cause through the animal to disrupt life supporting functions. I have found if I can make the deer (between 80 and 130lbs) absorb 700 foot pounds of energy in the vital zone, the animal will die. Thats not to say less wouldn't work, but I have noticed when the energy is below 500 foot pounds sometimes I need a second shot.

 

[Old Grump]

Half or more of my hunting is with a handgun

Have put down a lot of rabbit, squirrel and pigeon with a 22 handgun of various flavors. Used to use a 357 as my primary deer gun but have moved up in power. Like jonboynumba1 I believe the hunting caliber for large game should start with a 4. I have only had to shoot one deer twice and that was my first deer. I still practice long range shooting with my revolvers and pistols but now the deer or hog has to be under 100 yards, preferably under 50 or I will pass on the shot.

 

[Katana8869]

4 years ago I shot a 90 lb dog at close range that was trying to attack my then 2 year old daughter. I fired once and hit it in the chest with a 135gr .40 cal Cor-Bon out of a Glock 27 at less than 5 yards while it was in full attack charge at my little girl. The dog hit the dirt and died on the spot.

Some years before that I shot a feral cat in the head with a Mini-14 and watched it try to get up and run away because the .223 ball round bouced off of it's head leaving a long furrow in the bone of the skull but not penetrating to the brain. Another shot to the body brought it down so I was able to examine the wound myself.

The point is, no living being reacts well to being shot but effectiveness is not so much about what they are shot with as it is about how the shot is placed. I have hunted and shot alot of critters and I will be the first to agree with the old adage of "A good hit with a .22 is better that a miss with a .45". This is true with any caliber and IMO it is as good as gospel.

 

[ants]

Hunting provides good lessons to those who wish to learn.

In 2005, I hit a 140 pound mule deer in the middle of the chest with a 44 magnum at only 15 yards, which would be a long shot for self-defense.

The bullet went straight through the chest, exit wound was the same diameter as the entry wound. He jumped and ran until a follow-up shot hit his neck.

Too much gun at close range may simply make a clean hole straight through.

 

[Jeff F]

Here's a picture of a mule dear I took with one shot with a 4 inch .357 GP 100. Magtech 158grain JSP at about 30 feet. Dropped him like a rock DRT.

There have been a few that I had to look for. Not far or long but they did run a ways.

 

[mtngunr]

Mr. Livebythegun, your comment of

Spoken like someone who knows very little about guns or hunting. I hunt with a .243 among others and it will put a deer down if shot in the vitals(heart, lungs).

only reinforces the thought you should not quit your day job, as you make a terrible psychic.

I only take 2-3 deer per year in my back yard, with guns as various as a 32WCF leveraction, a .58cal musket, a ROA .457 with ball, a Redhawk shooting 180gr XTPs at 1900fps, .45 Colt and 38WCF SAA's, 1911 .45ACP with the 452460, an Argentine '09 Cavalry Carbine in 7.65mm, many more guns, many different critters, from hog to 'yotes...and casually plink at and hit drink cans at 100yds shooting unsupported with handguns, and etc.....an afternoon shooting with me might prove educational.

Most handguns lack explosive slap of high-powered rifles, and even rifles with well-hit critters can show the target ambling off unconcernedly for 20yds to 100yds before realizing they are dead.

Generally speaking, I have highest confidence in my handguns, but also generally admit most critters don't fall down as soon when well hit....spine/brain shots excepted.

Stopping power with handguns is generally tied to the one-stop-shot myth, which is why I mentioned the definition of that in the first place....Marshall/Sanow originally defined the OSS as immediate cessation, and/or less than something like 10ft of fleeing before collapse....most animals hit with rifles run further than that.

 

[goon]

I've only ever hunted with high powered rifles (30-30, .303 British, .308 Winchester, .300 savage, .35 Remington) but I still don't believe in stopping power.
It's a myth that is used to fuel online arguments.

Having said that, I do trust a gun to generally kill what I shoot with it.
In my experience, every animal I shot did die, eventually. Most of the animals I've seen shot by other people also died, eventually.

For defensive uses, I don't trust any gun to be able to stop anything, man or beast, with only shot.
Fortunately, even a revolver carries a lot more than one round.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Those references to the 30-06 not penetrating are funny...

I have seen 180 grain bullets from a 30-06 shoot plumb through both shoulder blades and exit the far side of a 400 lb. black bear at nearly 250 yards.

A 30-06 is plenty capable of doing the exact same thing on a really big grizzly.

The one thing that matters just as much as shot placement is proper bullet selection...handgun or rifle, if you can put those 2 things together...you will kill whatever you're shooting at.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I thought this was a pistol/revolver thread...My mistake...