Yugo M70: To Fold or Not To Fold

Shoulder one and then the other. To me, the folding stocks feel crappy when shouldered with the cheek hanging in mid-air.

Ash

I like the folder. It is not uncomfortable to shoot with the stock open and one does not have to keep their cheek dangling in the air. Cheek against the stock works fine and the "kick" is gentle...sights line up perfectly.


Might not be too much fun in freezing weather though

as there is no place to rest your cheek on the folder

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There's your problem

Cheek against the stock works fine and the "kick" is gentle...sights line up perfectly.

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Must be much different than my buddies Chinese Underfolder. While it looks cool and all, I find it near impossible to shoot with any accuracy whatsoever---I'm too used to getting a good cheak weld, even when shooting off-hand.

The folder on yugos are some of the best folders available on AKs. They are fairly durable, shrink the weapon considerably for carry, and don't leave a lot of obstruction hanging off the side when folded. But a fixed stock is more comfortable, less flexy, and permits a solid hold which is essential to fire quickly and keep on target. The problem is that it takes a decent ammount of work/cost to switch from one to the other, often times you are better off buying another rifle to have both (kinda slim pickins on any tacticool acessories for the yugo). IMO, if it is going to be a shooter, mostly used for punching paper at the range fixed is the way to go, If it is going to be slung over your shoulder as you ride an ATV, well then the folder would be better, well that is as far as functionality goes, the folder does look kinda cool, and ultimately that works into the equation too.
The yugos tend to shoot better than most any other AK in their price range out of the box, but unfortunately there isn't much "bolt on" stuff you can do to it

Using a folder just takes a different technique: just smile when shooting
and you'll get a decent cheek-weld!

It's crucial to find a folder w/ the least amount of up-down wiggle when
extended. There will always be "some", but you want to try and keep it
in approximately the same place by friction locking it to the max of this
wiggle area by pushing up on the pistol grip. It will wiggle during recoil,
but once you get use to the rhythm you will develop a muscle memory
of where it needs to be when you pull the trigger again.

It takes more practice than the fixed stock, but it's still possible to get
groups just as good.

I looked at it from another perspective. I bought several Yugo folders. They will be worth many times what I paid for them post 2009.

But a fixed stock is more comfortable, less flexy, and permits a solid hold which is essential to fire quickly and keep on target. The problem is that it takes a decent amount of work/cost to switch from one to the other, often times you are better off buying another rifle to have both

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Get a fixed stock, then buy a Romanian or East German sidefolding stock. You'll be able to switch back and forth in ten minutes with nothing but an allen key or screwdriver.

EDIT: Never mind, this won't work on a Yugo's miller receiver. See dstorm1911's post below...

If you wrap part of the left arm of the folding stock with paracord, it gives a cheekpiece, of sorts, that is more comfortable in hot/cold weather than the bare metal. It also helps with consistency. Also, as with any mechanism, the more you operate it, the more quickly it will wear out. In other words, open it and leave it open 'til you have a reason to close it. Then leave it closed 'til you have a reason to open it. Idly opening and closing it while you watch war movies on the tube serves no purpose and you are rubbing metal on metal every time you do it. FWIW, a buddy of mine owns a Yugo underfolder as well. He leaves his open all the time. To make the stock feel more rigid, he wrapped a heavy zip-tie around the outside of both arms of the stock close to the receiver and snugged it up very tight with the tie as close to the reciever as possible. The way this makes the stock "pinch" the receiver does reduce wobble considerably. If he wants to fold it, for some reason, all he has to do it cut the zip-tie.
I also own a Polish fixed stock. If you know how to handle the Yugo, they're equal in practical accuracy. In terms of absolute durability, the Polish would get the edge. I get equal enjoyment out of shooting both.

I debated this back-n-forth, until one day I encountered an Ace sidefolding setup for an AK. That resolved the matter right then and there; the Ace was so much more solid and comfortable and faster to deploy that I passed on the underfolders without a second thought.

Buy the fixed stock and spend the extra coin for the Ace side folder if you have to have a folding stock.

Samuel L. Jackson eloquently stated the intended purpose of the Kalashnikov rifle.

When you start speaking of fine accuracy and ergonomics of said rifle, I believe you digress.

AK's rule the world - one shotgun shack at a time.

The Yugo underfolder is MUCH different than the Chinese or polish folders as it comes off in a straight line directly in line with the bore rather than dropping down away from the bore, ya get a perfect cheek weld that puts your eye directly in line with the sights and because the tock is in a straight line with the bore percieved recoil is much lower.

Now the fixed stock ya got a couple issues the first being the extra high comb which makes lining up on the sights very uncomfortable unless ya mount a scope on it.... or rasp then sand downthe comb.

DMK Ya cannot interchange any of the side folders etc... directly for a Yugo fixed stock as it uses a milled style butstock it is nothing like a standard AKM fixed stock rear trunion.... the Yugo uses a square socket with a single full length bolt to mount it, I've come up with an adapter design to mount a collapsable M4 stock for one but until a manufacter decides to start makin the adapters ya are stuck with the stock as they come or make your own custom setup..

heres a pic of one with the stock rail wrapped, its very effective and something I've been doing with underfolders since ohhh about 1983 or so but the Yugo is the only one I've ever found that actually puts the stock in a straight line with the bore allowing for a cheek weld..

went with grey/black para cord the braid is simply alternating the first step to tieing a square knot top then bottom and back to top etc..

BTW no need for zip ties etc... the underfolder has a tension adjustment to tighten it, its the round nut under the right side cap, simply remove the pin rotate the nut with a drift then reinstall the pin and rotate the nut against the pin to secure it... the rifle in the pics was my very first Yugo build its a 1982 with an original excellent condition barrel (it was one of the earliest parts sets to come in before they got down to the crap dark bores and sewer pipe bores etc..) I've put 23,000 rnds through it as of last week the bore still gauges the same as it did when I selected the kit and the underfolder is still as tight as it ever was, this rifle is the one mentioned in other threads that accompanies me on high speed rides across the desert on the dirt bike its been in several crashes and was in the custody of the Sherifs dept for a brief visit following a shooting out here last year...... for a month it sat in there locker without bein cleaned after having fired 90 rnds of corrosive primed Chicom surplus ammo through it....... it was covered with sweat, sand and some blood that whole time yet it still does not have any pitting to the original bore etc... the Nodak reciever is perfect etc... in fact several of the deputies went out and bought themselves Century built versions based on what they learned from that incident,

DMK Ya cannot interchange any of the side folders etc... directly for a Yugo fixed stock as it uses a milled style butstock it is nothing like a standard AKM fixed stock rear trunion.... the Yugo uses a square socket with a single full length bolt to mount it

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I was afraid of that. I knew Yugo AK's were a little unique, but didn't realize the stock mounting was non-standard as well.

I should have known better when nobody had offered what would be the easy solution yet in 8 posts on the thread.

DMK, The funny part is because its simply a square socket with a single through bolt adapters would be so versatile and easy to make too, ya could literally set it up like a VZ 58 were ya can swap stocks in a matter of seconds but so far nobody has grabbed the ball and ran with it....

To me it depends on what you're doing with it.

The folding stock looks cool, but it gives a poor cheek weld and it wobbles all over the place as it gets older as the stock loosens up with age. If you're getting in and out of a vehicle alot with it then that might be a consideration, but for the most part it's an over rated consideration unless you're in someplace like Iraq.

The full stocked version is a little bit longer, but it actually shoots better.

Unless you're buying it with the intention of using it as some sort of truck gun where a folding stock might be a virtue and where folding it up to put it in a small space is absolutely necessary then I'd just get the full stock. It's really not THAT much longer and you'll hit what you're aiming at. You just won't look quite as cool doing it.

If you just have to get a folding stock a solution might be to get a stock that's more stable like these.

http://riflestocks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=69&products_id=281&osCsid=5fcfa3637ee0b83d45ce614d51dcd004

http://riflestocks.com/AKStampedNoMods.htm

http://riflestocks.com/SaigaAK.htm

I see that someone beat me to it, but these are a hell of alot more stable than some of the other folders out there and it's kind of a compromise. It provides a decent cheek weld (still not as good as a wood stock, but it's decent) and it folds down so you're still able to fold it if you want to. It's kind of the best of both worlds.

It seems like it's a take off of the Galil folding stock and it's made out of good materials.

browning, the ace stocks are really nice, too bad none of them fit the yugo. Rule of thumb is if it fits the romanian, mac, maadi, vepr, saiga bulgarian, or most any other standard AK, then it WONT fit the yugo. AK parts fit in 3 categories: stamped, machined, yugo. I imagine there may be someone with a machine shop who may be able to make an adapter, but I don't know of any that are available(not for lack of trying). Bottom line, is that if you want a solid bang-for-your-buck AK that shoots well, and outside of finishing, or machinist work do not want to tacticool it, then the yugo is the one for you. If you want to play dress up with an AK, then most any other AK would be better.

alucard0822 : browning, the ace stocks are really nice, too bad none of them fit the yugo. Rule of thumb is if it fits the romanian, mac, maadi, vepr, saiga bulgarian, or most any other standard AK, then it WONT fit the yugo. AK parts fit in 3 categories: stamped, machined, yugo. I imagine there may be someone with a machine shop who may be able to make an adapter, but I don't know of any that are available(not for lack of trying). Bottom line, is that if you want a solid bang-for-your-buck AK that shoots well, and outside of finishing, or machinist work do not want to tacticool it, then the yugo is the one for you. If you want to play dress up with an AK, then most any other AK would be better.

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From what I've always understood about Yugo AK's is that it just required more work to get them to fit. It's supposed to be a huge pain in the ass and it'll take a trip to the gunsmith and he'll cuss at you for bringing it in to him to work on, but it'll fit eventually. But I'm not a gunsmith and I don't own a Yugo AK, so what do I know?

I've never had to deal with it though and that's just what I've heard by local gunsmith say about them.

Browning, there is no similarity at all between a Yugos rear trunion and any stamped AK none whatsoever......... I am a gunsmith and I build very high end Yugos everyday as well as many variations...... currently there are zero adapters that can be modified to fit the Yugo NOW its not going to be hard to create one but until recently Yugo M70AB1s have been very scarce and those were primarily in the hands of collectors who wanted to keep em in their original format especially as it required either building it yourself or paying a shop like ours around $900 to build ya one...... well Century has changed that with their much lower priced builds but still yet the M70AB1 is a scarce critter and in very high demand Century sent 50 (of 100 ordered) to J&G sales 2 weeks ago and within the first day 35 were sold by the second day they were sold out.........

Unless owners start clamoring for adapters it'll be a while before companies start lookin at em there are already a couple companies makin custom front end stuff for Yugos but so far nobody has jumped on the fact that it would be extremally easy to make a huge variety of custom stock adapters at very low cost to cover about any stock a user might want to add no gunsmith needed but a machinist is needed as the instalation would simply entail ya being able to fit a square peg into a square hole and tighten one 10 mm bolt in the center I suspect this bolt will be in the form of a countersunk allen bolt as opposed to the 13mm hex head full length bolt currently accesed by removing the AB1s rubber butplate...... if someone can manage those two things they will be able to install an AB1 stock adapter themselves........ just needa machinist to cut ya the adapter itself first

I have personally made a stamped butt stock work in an SA-93 with milled receiver. Can't comment on Yugo's, but mine worked just fine.

Ash

dstorm1911 : Browning, there is no similarity at all between a Yugos rear trunion and any stamped AK none whatsoever.....

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Then what that gunsmith told me was BS.

Like I said I'm not a gunsmith and I don't own a Yugo AK so I haven't ever had to deal with any of this.

If that's the case, then I'd just get the regular stock on it.

The underfolders are pretty uncomfortable to actually shoot.

I have one with a wood stock and I like it a lot. I waited a long time for J&G to get them back in stock not too long ago and when they did I raced down to pick one up. Like Dstorm said when I bought mine they had already sold 15 of them the day after they got them in, I was lucky to get my hands on one.

I have no big issue with underfolders they're just not my style, I like the wood furniture better but that's just a personal preference. The way i see it go with what you really want. Like I said, I waited many months before I could get my hands on the type I really wanted. Also if I want to put a folding stock on it then I have that option, with an underfolder you're pretty much stuck with what you got.

Here's a pic of her

I think the easiest way to get a folding stock onto a yugo would be to mold in a fill on the stock, or mill out an adapter out of a chunk of aluminum (oval male to square female), and use a folding stock intended for a remmy 870, should be nearly the same angle, and designed for a single mounting bolt.

perhaps dstorm could comment, I am not a gunsmith, I am formerly an auto mechanic with automachine experience (consultant now though), we ran into similar problems with mounts and brackets, and that is an easy way to get an engine, accesory, or superceded part to fit in something it shouldn't. Not sure if it would help here though, just an idea.

Browning, actually the Yugo underfolders are real comfortable, I never could tolerate underfolders all the ones in my collection were simply so the collection was complete (ie have accumulated examples of every AK ever issued to the WARSAW PACT Armies) I never could stand shooting them same for Ol' Don but when the Yugo kits came in a grabbed enough to do 6 of each etc... the fixed stock M70AB1s were going to be my shooters and the M70AB2s just as with the other underfolders.... to make the collection complete but that first M70AB2 pictured above when I had it mostly finished I noticed the angle was different then shouldered it...... man it was actually comfortable and my eye fell right in line with the sights with cheek on left rail nice and comfortable

I handed it to Don askin if he could tell if it felt different he tried it then lowered it an looked..... went to onea the vaults and got out a Chicom military and yep deffinetly different he went and got out a few more including an original NFA Registered Izzy Russian all had the stock dropping away forcing your head up off the stock to line up the sights.... so

I built the 6 M70AB2s first and everyone was the same (now up to over 450 built since 95 when they first came in) I was really lookin forward to the M70AB1s after the underfolders but....... well outa the 6 in my collection they've been function fired but nobody ever likes em as much as the Underfolders, everyone snatches em up when we have shoots out here (we put on a barbeque with up to around 40 guests every couple weeks everyone gets to pick whatever they wanna play with I'll usually lay out anywhere from 30 -50 assorted guns on the benches out at the range in the back 40) but after a couple shots they get sat back down usually with comments bout not bein able to get a good sight picture cause the comb is too high on the stock.... I will probably sand one down onea these days they would be a real sweet shooter if not for that high stock comb look at the pic posted above then look at a regular AK stock.....

I'd recommend gettin one just cause it isn't hard to fix em if your not worried bout collectability etc... and there will be adapters made for em eventually but as they come the Underfolder is actually the better shooter......

When I first got my Yugo underfolder I wondered about shooting it with the folding stock. After about 3 shots I forgot all about it being an underfolder.