Guns Are Not a Magic Talisman

When Your Number is up, you'll be standing on the "X"

I believe that there is nothing you can do about the "bullet with your name on it".
The one that worries me says, "To Whom It May Concern".
I have faith God to carry me through on days when I'm not 100% on the ball, but even the Bible says that it is appointed once for a man to die, and then the judgement.
When I was young, I always learned things from the soldiers I knew and all these things were labled "so you don't die" or "get killed". I came to realize that death is not an if, but a when. While I haven't met many people in a hurry, however, I believe I'll be in a better place.


I'm not trying to impress my religeon on anyone, I'm just explaining why I don't stress over it. I have come to survive many opportunities to die, so I guess I'm not done yet. Someday, our luck will run out, and our families will have to do without us based on what we've taught them. Teach them well.

The bottom line of Clint's write up (in addition to honoring their commitment and sacrifice) was that you can have the right weapon, the right training and the right motivation and things may not go your way.

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However, things almost ALWAYS go BETTER than if you're simply a passive victim. After the school shooting here the other day, some simpleton in the paper opined how teachers shouldn't be allowed to go armed because the children might be "caught in a crossfire". As with the LIRR massacre by Patrick Ferguson, some [stupid] people feel that the CERTAINTY of being murdered by a gunman is better than the CHANCE of being accidentally shot by someone trying to stop him. In the words of Christina Ricci in one of the Addams Family movies, such people will "always be the victim".

The moral is:

--Stay out of gambling dens
--Stay out of bars
--Don't become famous
--If you see a wild-eyed man walking along the side of the road, keep driving
--As Byron noted, don't insult people and avoid arguments
--Run from fights whenever you can safely do so
--If you have to get involved in a gunfight and cannot escape, at least try to be behind concealment and cover holding a rifle on the other guy's chest
--Bring a gun to a knife fight, and bring a rifle to a pistol fight
--Every day above ground is a good day

hmmm...

...Life can be difficult, alone, it is downright dicey...
Never hurts to have a friend along...

A gun is only better odds if you get a chance to deploy and use it against the threat. Otherwise, it is just excess baggage and a poor shield.

Jeff's original point is that Hickok was never in a position to deploy his gun. He was a good shooter and was armed, but his gun did zilch for him when he was ambushed from behind.

A gun is a tool, and if not used in conjunction with other tools such as situational awareness and proper application, then it isn't much good.

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I should clarify my point.

(sarcastic mode on)

The ideal person is a fit twenty something year old male who can do twenty chin ups with one arm and then run a marathon in record time without getting tired. He was taken away from his family at age 5 and has trained extensively in all martial arts techniques his whole life and has mastered all contemporary and antiquated weapons. More importantly, he has been trained by ninjas and operators his entire life and can win a 24 on one fight against a squad of heavily armed Marines naked. He is so well tactically trained a cult of forum goers worships him, and he lives in a biosphere which perfectly simulates all possible environments wherein he trains 23 hours a day. His observational and tactical skills are so perfect he is never conned, fooled, or fails to observe anything. He can see an Oreo cookie wafer obscured by heavy brush in the dark 200 yards away.

(sarcastic mode off)

I don't know about some of you folks, but I'm not that guy. Could I be better at defending myself? Sure I could. Could I be better at driving (which would probably make me safer than being better at fighting or observational skills)? Of course. Could I be a better dancer? Easily.

(slightly sarcastic mode on)

Now I realize that I'm the only clueless idiot "sheep" in the middle of a crowd of Navy Seals here, but in the real world, the presence of useful tools can in some situations lead to a better outcome that wouldn't be possible if the tool wasn't there. I'm sure everyone else here can hammer nails with their fist because of hours of intense training, but personally I need a hammer. Also, while I believe in the radical new concept of condition yellow/orange/red/chartreuse, I personally cannot sustain condition orange constantly, I'd have a heart attack. Well probably not, but I'd be overly paranoid and miserable. Obviously I'm not fit to even dare try to defend myself, despite the fact that even people in Beirut and Fallujah and all the other hell holes of the world where people get killed daily value being relaxed more than anything.

(slightly sarcastic mode off)

The fact that the presence of the tool matters is not saying it's magic, just that it means you have slightly better odds that you'll be able to deal with more situations.

You might very well walk out today, scan the area intensely for thirty seconds, and still get hit by a bus. The gun carrying didn't help you now did it? Neither did your survey of the scene. That doesn't mean you were stupid or incompetent for doing either, but later on some folks on a forum with the benefit of hindsight will ridicule you for not being tactical enough and make those claims anyway...

I carry a phone, a few tools, a gun, and other personal implements everywhere I go because I have used those tools before and realize that I can produce useful effects with them which can remedy many situations I've encountered. Yes I am probably better off than most people even if I didn't have the actual physical tools on me since I have learned to think like that to some degree, but the presence of the actual object does make a tangible difference.

Folks there's nothing certain, you equip yourself with the best tools you can be it a gun, a cellular phone, a flashlight, or your own eyes and ears, you learn how to use those tools as best as you are able, and you go about your business and try to live as well as possible. Tomorrow you may lose your job and all your savings or your life or anything or everything else despite all your efforts, that's just the rules of the game. But the more you do to try to be ready for whatever happens, the better off you'll be.

walking arsenal:

No, what mattered is that he wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Dunno if what he was riding in had them or not though.

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The car in which George S. Patton was being driven when he was killed in December 1945 was a 1939 Cadillac. I believe that it was not until 19 years later, when Saab introduced its GT something or other with seat belts in 1958, that car manufacturers provided seat belts as standard equipment.

Although I agree that Patton might not have suffered fatal injuries in that accident if he had been wearing a seatbelt, it's a pointless comment unless the point is to promote seatbelts. You might as well have said something like "No, what mattered is that he wasn't in a tank" if you had an interest in pushing tanks. A tank would have kept Patton even safer than a seatbelt, he did have tanks available, and so should we all. I rather like the idea.

But it is an enjoyable way to finesse someone's point. So Hitchcock would have been better off if he had sat facing a mirror and looked steadily behind him. I don't know if Hitchcock had clear view of a mirror at all times though. If not he might have heard someone behind his back if he had an ear trumpet pointed that way, or a faithful dog could have warned or protected him if he had one of those.

Jeff's point is good.

Since SM brought up Billy the Kid although I have doubts about that version of his end.

I'll mention Pat Garrets death, he was older and no longer a sheriff, he had a reputation as a quarellsome (sic) man...he was shot in the back while showing some land to 2 men that said they wanted to lease it for sheep grazing. He was on a wagon and the man who shot him was on a horse riding slightly behind him while Pat spoke to the other man.

They were acquitted - the excuse being something to this effect (I don't have the exact story handy) I needed to shoot first because Pat was getting upset and I feared he would shoot me and he was to good with a gun to fight him face to face.

I think part of situational awareness is avoiding people and places that are trouble. Not hanging or having friends that are thieves and druggies greatly improves your odds of not being robbed by them.

Also, not being an SOB and having friends who will watch your back. I read that Hickock was not well liked - maybe a friend at the table would have helped.

added: Later the men or group they represented "bought" Garrets land from his widow.

From a blog piece I wrote on Friday, November 03, 2006:

It was this day twenty two years ago that Craig got off work, and began to drive home. He worked at the local power plant, on the evening shift. He had a new wife waiting for him at home, with a baby on the way. Craig had recently bought them a new home in the country. It was raining that night, and it was dark. As Craig crested a hill he saw a Chevy Luv pick-up truck in the ditch. A bloodied woman was in the roadway frantically flagging him down.

I went to school with Craig all through grammar and high school. We hunted tadpoles together as kids, and later asked the same girl to the prom. She went with Craig. Like many friends we lived in close proximity and drifted apart. I was in the Navy in the South Pacific on that night.

Craig, being a good country boy, always ready to help a lady in distress, pulled over to see what he could do. As he got out of his vehicle, she shot him once through the chest with a .357 magnum revolver. Craig hit the wet pavement, no doubt in shock, the cold November rain pelting his body. I wonder what he thought. I hope he died thinking of his wife and little girl at home. I hope he did not wonder why he was shot, but I suspect he did.

The woman stole Craig's vehicle, running over his outstretched arm, and left him in the road way to die. She had just killed her boyfriend, who had been driving the Chevy Luv she was riding in. I did not learn of Craig's death until I returned home from the Navy, and happened to run into his father. We had drifted apart, but Craig's death had a profound effect on me. The country boy world I trusted as I grew up had changed while I was overseas. I began to carry a gun.

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No, a gun is not a magic talisman, but it damned sure improves your odds when you find yourself in an inescapable dangerous predicament.

A subsequent piece:

It was a story that reminded me of why I carry a gun. Even now, nobody knows why Nick Salinas took the lives of the highway travelers who stopped to assist him.

At 2:05AM Sunday morning, Nick Salinas wrecked his automobile on Interstate 35E near downtown Dallas. At approximately 2:13, Robert Langston stopped his vehicle and approached Salinas to help. Salinas shot him in the head at close range. Moments earlier, a man named Bob Hope had tried to assist Salinas, but after Salinas stuck a shotgun in his face, Hope escaped. Mr. Hope was calling 911 on his cellphone as the shootings began.

Next, about 2:15AM, Barry Smith stopped just South of Langston's vehicle, and unknowingly walked towards the killer. Salinas shot him at about 40 feet.

About that same time, a vehicle carrying four men, including Jesus Reyes Terrazas, passed the scene. The men thought they saw an accident and returned to help. At 2:18AM, Salinas fired two shots at the four men as they approached. One blast struck Terrazas in the head, killing him. One of the men with Terrazas had a concealed handgun license, as well as his firearm. He drew his gun and returned fire. It is unclear whether his return fire found it's mark.

The first police officers arrived on the scene at 2:20AM. Cpl. Jerry Poston and his partner knew they had an accident and a potential shooting when they rolled up. Poston approached a wounded Barry Smith to render aid, but before he could reach Smith, Salinas shot him twice. Cpl. Poston struggled to breathe, his neck, face scalp and knee perforated by shotgun pellets.

Four victims lay bleeding in the sultry Texas night near his wrecked blue Nissan when Salinas turned his gun on himself and took his own life. Robert Langston was pronounced dead at the scene. Jesus Terrazas died shortly after his arrival at Methodist Dallas Medical Center. David Smith and Jerry Poston ultimately survived the killer's onslaught.

Why did Salinas kill? I'll leave that to the psychoanalysts. My friend, Phlegmfatale, was hoping I would analyze this insane orgy of murder, and perhaps offer a few pointers on how to avoid a similar fate. Those who survived lived by chance, because they were not targeted by the killer. They were able to escape into the darkness. It is tragic that Mr. Hope was unable to warn the men who arrived shortly after him. Alas, I am reminded of Craig, and the only advice I can offer is drive on by and report the accident on your cell phone.

I know that I could never do that myself. I always stop at accidents. Always. Even when my daughter is along for the ride, I stop. I feel it is my duty as a nurse. I do carry a gun. When responding to an unknown emergency, I am most vulnerable.

This is a situation that merits contemplation and planning. One thing is certain though. The only way one can remove the threat to oneself is to drive on by and alert authorities of the accident. Still, someone must be the first on the scene. If I can prevent a death, that someone should be me. I will not give up the way I choose to live my life because of the nameless bitch that killed Craig, or murderous wastes of oxygen like Salinas.

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Sometimes, because of events I have experienced in my life, I have a fatalistic point of view. When your number is up, when you are standing on that X,......Well, everyone has to die sometime.

But then, as a nurse, I know not everyone dies. Some victims of crime are crippled. Some are paralyzed. Some jockey wheelchairs and wear colostomy bags. They develop decubitus ulcers that demand constant care, lest they become infected, creating sepsis and killing the victim, concluding a tragic chain of events years after a victim's bad decision and a criminal's actions set them in motion. Other victims survive on life support, brain dead, unknowingly generating years of agony and turmoil over every medical and nursing decision their loved ones are forced to face. I do not want to do that to my wife and children.

So, when I worked Home Health, providing specialized wound care in some of the most crime infested areas of a poverty stricken state, I carried redundant guns. One was on my hip under my lab coat, or in a SmartCarry holster if I was wearing scrubs. One was my nursing bag, secured in a middle compartment, velcroed shut. That bag was actually a soft sided briefcase designed to carry a gun. I recommend a similar bag to every nurse or physician I teach. In my pocket I carried a revolver, because I expected the struggle to be in confined spaces, quickly going to the ground, with the firearm jammed in the criminal's ribs. In the back of my Jeep Cherokee, I carried an aluminum baseball bat, my non-lethal weapon.

Twice over a period of eleven years of this type of work, I felt compelled to draw a weapon. Once, I pulled the bat. Each time, the event could have been avoided by better planning on my part. The learning curve was steep, but I was learning.

There are reasons why a grammar school dropout who cannot multiply 26 by 4 is able to outwit and victimize a person who is of demonstrably higher intelligence and social proficiency.

First, the criminal does this for a living. They are not as dumb as many think they are. If you fail to respect their level of skill, you will be unprepared to deal with them. They are not dumb. They just attended a different "school" and studied a different "curriculum". To understand and predict their behavior, you must know a bit of that curriculum as well. Understanding the behaviors and motivations of different types of criminals is the framework with which a wise person protects themselves. Know your enemy. Then practice avoidance if you can. If avoidance is impossible, try evasion. Try both of these tactics prior to defense. You do not have to "win" a dangerous encounter. Nobody wins a gunfight. They simply survive.

The next reason that a criminal can overcome a victim is they have a plan. They are acting offensively, while the victim is reacting defensively. By having a plan in place before contact is made, the criminal has a distinct advantage. They have considered contingencies. They know what they are going to do. They often work in numbers, confusing and surrounding the victim beforehand. They know what's coming. The victim does not. Know how the criminal works. He has a plan, and is looking for a victim to impose the plan on. The criminal has considered, and quite possibly experienced the reactions he will receive from his victim before the fact. Having a counter plan is good, but removing yourself from the victim selection process is a far superior tactic. Having a plan of action to deal with criminal activities is vital once you have been targeted. There is no one plan to fit every contingency.

The active criminal conceals their intent until they have selected a victim, moved in for the attack, and possibly made a couple of probes to assess the victim's responses. Recognizing the criminal's actual intent is vital. That gives you the edge to counter his plan with a plan of your own. The most frequent mistake that a victim makes is the failure to recognize the threat until it is to late. The criminal works with behavioral devices to conceal his actual purpose. The potential victim must see through the veil and recognize the actual intent if they are to counter the criminal. The criminal may be a scruffy crackhead, or they may be an attractive member of the opposite sex. They may be working alone, or in groups, either seen or unseen.

Once the criminal's plan is set in motion, the victim must seize the initiative. They must place the criminal on the defense. They must force him into the role of the person who is reacting to the unexpected. Your gun may be unexpected, or it may not be. It is your choices, your behavior that must redirect the conflict, not your firearm.

Analyzing when you are most vulnerable is key. Military men know that insertion is not the time of vulnerability. Extraction is. The criminal knows your presence when you are leaving. While you were otherwise engaged, he was sizing you up and formulating his plan. He possibly even knows the path you will take, as it is usually the most direct one to your vehicle.

I knew that I was most vulnerable when I left an apartment or house in the crime and gang infested areas where I worked. Before I opened the door of an apartment to leave, I would take a look outside the window. The patients understood why, hell they lived there. I always, on the first patient contact, explained that I did not carry drugs, syringes (a lie), money, or valuables. I wore an ugly old Timex. I carried a beat up camera for wound documentation......I actually took sandpaper to it to make it less desirable. I drove a humble Grand Cherokee with a dented fender and ugly rims. I made certain the young men in the home, often involved in illegal if not outright gang activity, knew my purpose. I was there to provide nursing service, not to act as a police informant. I made sure they knew I would pull out and not only let them rot, but impede further care by other agencies if I was threatened. I did not equivocate on these issues. Often, these young men would serve as my protection against the threats as I came and went about my business. I would talk and listen as I worked, gathering information not just on specifics, but on the emotional climate of the area. I made mental notes of who came and went in the homes, the layout of the homes, as well as blankets hung in doorways and doors padlocked shut. One of the odd beliefs in these areas is that law enforcement needed a separate search warrant for padlocked doors inside a home. Thus, a padlocked door indicated illegal activity within the home. All good information to know. Even though young men or women, often seen as criminals, might serve as my protectors in these neighborhoods, I kept my distance and would not allow them to walk me to my vehicle. They knew why.

I would park where I had alternate routes to my vehicle. I would keep open space around me and structures and objects as much as possible. I made myself a difficult target. Still, I had to approach my Jeep. The criminals knew where to lie in wait. Thus, I was careful to park where I would have some room to see my attacker as he approached my vehicle, and where I could observe the vehicle from inside the home. Time and distance were my protection. I had a square convex mirror stuck on the rear glass of the Cherokee's hatch so I could see an approach from behind as I opened it. I had remote controlled door locks, and I disabled the passenger side and rear outside door handles. I kept the batteries changed in the door remote, giving me max power in opening them, and I kept the Cherokee maintained with a full gas tank.

Drawing and using a gun is only a part of one plan. It is a possible counter action, but not the only one. Keeping your back to the wall is only one technique. We plan for crimes that we hear about, the ones that make the 6:00 news. Most crimes do not occur as the spectacular robbery with multiple patrons in a restaurant or bar. They occur when the victim is alone and vulnerable, in a laundromat, walking a dog, or approaching their automobile or front door. These opportunities for criminals to ply their trade must be countered as well. Gunfighting is not about guns, it's about fighting. You must be willing and able to fight, and fighting is about survival. The gun is only a means of increasing your advantage in a struggle for survival. The best way to survive is to recognize and avoid or offset the threat altogether.

Sorry for the volume of my reply, I guess I got carried away. There is a lot of bad information, assumptions and beliefs out there, only one of which is the gun being a magic talisman. Hopefully, I have addressed a couple more.

XavierBreath,

Excellent Post!

I appreciate your sharing from your blob a previous post and the sage words added below.

It means a lot to me, and others.


Steve

XB, I have to wonder if the restruants bars, schools courthouses will not become some of the new locations of oppertunity since CCW is not allowed in these area's. If you follow the news the schools at least are started to become fertile grounds. I agree with SM excellent post but I have to wonder if we are not creating new targets of oppertunity with some of the rules. I agree bars are no place for firearms but restraunts are pushing it some IMO.

Jim

The last time I slowed down for a motorist who was having car problems one of the passengers charged towards me demanding that I give him my bike! I was happy I had my sidearm in my coat pocket, and even happier I was able to get away from there without having to use it. People are nuts.

Euclidean and Xavier - two more people with whom I'd be pleased to hoist a frosty someday

This isn't perhaps completely in the spirit of the OP's request for stories- but it IS a considerable list of recent incidents where the 'good guys' were able to turn the tables due to misplaced faith by crooks in their firearms' ability to inspire paralyzing terror in their victims. See http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/labels/criminal's%20gun%20taken%20away%20and%20used%20against%20him.html

Disarming moves might not always be smart, but they seem to work some of the time.

lpl/nc

Does anyone have any scotch? These posts are killing me...

I carry as well, but I also learned situational awareness

I grew up in Chicago-area, so CCW was not allowed. I have since acquired my CHL in Texas, however, I learned some valuable lessons in Chicago. We used to have to make night deposits from the restaurant I worked at- several thousand dollars is an attractive target to a thief. I learned some of the same lessons SM speaks of, though not, in all likelyhood, from as much experience as he has. But I am allways aware of my surrondings- that is one reason I seldom drink in public anymore (it impairs my awareness, and I cannot carry). But I think we can all learn alot from Jeff White and SM.

Cato,
I appreciate the kind words.
Yes, you learned some valuable lessons in Chicago, one being a firearm is only
one tool in a tool box, not the only tool in a toolbox.
You were denied one tool, so many put too much focus on - a firearm while in Chicago.

Listen to Jeff, not me, I am nobody.

--

Lee Lapin wrote:
...'good guys' were able to turn the tables due to misplaced faith by crooks in their firearms' ability to inspire paralyzing terror in their victims...

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Lady Luck is always welcome to show up in my life.

I've shared this before-
Shooter was at the front of my truck when he pointed his gun at me and pulled the trigger.
I had already started evading moves, backing up, head down, and driver's door cracked open.
I was CCW-ing
I was able to finally get backed up without harm or injury to another, pull forward, and take cover in a parking lot where I observed, and wrote with ink, on my hand license tags and the like.

Youths left, 3 vehicles involved.

Now I was busy evading, the parking area where I was evading, had ejected ctgs. all over.
Witnesses said he keep pointing the gun at me, pulling the trigger, "click" racking slide and repeating.

I observed and reported. I took coffee cups and placed over ejected ctgs and kept the scene clear for Police.

His gun did not work.

Truth is, My first thought was not MY CCW. Evading and getting distance was. My back up plan was to toss my truck into Drive, and hit the gas pedal,with him at the hood of my truck, and stop this threat in this manner.
Action is quicker than reaction if you will.
Not to mention, I got a better chance of "placement" and stopping a threat with a truck.
Problem 2 never came to be, which is great! I don't want Problem 2.
You think about Problem 2, and the tool used to stop a threat being a truck, or gun, and which one ....
My truck ain't a Magic Talisman either.

Engaging without Engaging is what worked that day...and Lady Luck showing up.

and Lady Luck showing up.

SM,

Like you, I'll take that lady being on my side over anyone else I know any day

You can do everything right and die, or do everything wrong and live. The lady has the final say in how it turns out

I used to tell people who would ocassioanally ask why I was so succseful all those years in the "business" this: Luck was 95% and the other 5% was experience.

Being in the right place at the right time, the right place at the wrong time, the wrong place at the right time, the wrong place at the wrong time---it didn't matter, it was really up to the "lady" how it turned out for the most part.

Brownie

Thanks for the kind words.

My perception is, society has changed how society chooses to deal with life's situations.

I am 52 years old. I grew up with guns, and knives as being a part of my life, starting at a very very young age.
These were just tools, with skill sets learned , passed forward to me, as they were to all of boys and girls, and quality practice continuing.

Now understand, Wars had been fought, and more conflicts would come to be , whether abroad, or at home , such as Civil Unrests. Guns and knives and other Hardware (tools) were a part of all this, just not THE only tool.

Stategies & Tactics included, locking the doors on the house when the Chain Gangs came around to do work. Or Inmate had escaped so keep eyes peeled and report any suspicious activity.
Heck, we rarely locked our doors.

Vehicles often had the ignition set to "on" meaning a key was not needed to start, that or keys left in the vehicle.
Common sense said to set ignition to "off" (required a key to do this) and taking the keys out of vehicle.

This way, inmates would not just come on in on us, or take the vehicle. WE did not need anyone telling us this, and we did not sit around inside with guns in laps.

We lived life, not just existing . No 911, and even calling the "Law" would take some time.
Made sense to us, to avoid trouble in the first place, leave when it showed up, and if matters got bad, deal with it.
We knew how to deal with stuff.

This might sound stupid, still with no modern Central HVAC, meaning folks used window fans, raised windows - a Peeping Tom, getting a face full of dirty mop water, through the window screen, probably with Ammonia in it, will make Peeping Tom quit peeping in.
Hey stepping outside, and around with a garden hoe, and "Git!" would work too.

Granted most folks carried concealed that I was around, point being, the gun was not the first thing they thought off for every situation.
Water Moccasins around the farm pond, creek, and other places we kids went, often fell victim to a Garden Hoe, not being shot.

Folks had seen enough killing, injuring, blindness, and all, we had Vets in Society with amputations, and worst.
WE did not want to get shot,knifed, stabbed, cut, we were told how that bullet/ or bayonet/knife did all that damage, and the amputation was needed.

We did not look for an excuse to use force, force of any kind- though we practiced using force, and with whatever gun one had.
It was NOT the gun, instead the person using a gun- the mindset, and all that made this all work.
Single shot shotgun, .22 rifle, Lever action rifle, revolver - it did not matter what one had, just be one with the thing.

Plus how to avoid not getting to that point...those amputations, missing eyes, nasty scars and all - sorta kept one reminded how Real all this was.


I get concerned about todays Society. Folks are not being raised around guns, or anything else as I and other were.

These folks are either so misinformed about Realities of Society, or they have some John Wayne/GIJoe Macho idea, they are going to actually be Matriculated into a Firearm community/ Knife community/ MMA community by spouting , parroting, and boasting in Society, and Internet as they do.

They want "it" so bad, they cannot sit still and listen. Maybe pride and ego gets in the way, who knows?

Let me share, you can replay all you want about your perfect gunfight, but it ain't gonna happen that way.

Looking for opportunities will get one dead.
Pulling some of the boasted stuff, will put one in jail, and you do not get to keep your guns in jail.

I've said it before, go attend a jury trial, and pay attention.

Jury of one's Peers...well...not everyone on that Jury is going to be just like you.
This all costs money, time and wears one down emotionally, physically, mentally, and financially.

Just might be a good idea to think a bit, mull it over, and get brutally honest with self.

Evil is going to do what Evil is going to do.
No need to go looking for Evil, or making Evil for one's self.


Dead Serious. I have seen folks, that liked to shoot, have guns, hunt and all.
Evil come looking for them/theirs and they were Lucky, they totally flubbed up themselves , how handled and guns, but survived.
or
Some were not so lucky, and /or saw others get hurt, raped, or dead.
They got rid of all guns. It ate them up inside. Some get it together, get it all sorta out, and get to keeping a gun around, maybe even shoot one again...just never like they once were.
Some never do. They put way too much stock in "things" , that gun, and they failed.

No Software, only Hardware, and it does not always work out very good this way.

Software, not Hardware does.


One of the impromptu lessons we did, was use play money and "buy what you need" for serious matters. Just stuff on a table...Social Experiment for me and others...

Folks bought guns and knives.
Set-Up was a fire in the house. Not a damn one had bought a fire extinguisher.

I've already changed Batteries in the Smoke Alarms, being Daylight Savings Time - how about you?

I will put in fresh batteries when we go off of DST as well....
Quite few things I do when this time change occurs, twice a year...

How are your windshield wipers? Ready for winter? Easier to spot trouble before it reaches you in a car...easier to evade if you can see through the windshield.

DST goes off, my wipers will be replaced again ready for summer...inspected and maintained often through the year besides replacement.

Some stuff firearms can't do.
No guarantee my smoke alarms , fire extinguishers, wiper blades...etc are going to work when called upon either.
I have backups, spare set of blades in the truck...double up on smoke alarms, fire extinguishers...still no guarantee .


Software, not hardware.

sm makes excellent points. He's no nobody.

It ain't the gun that defuses, controls or reverses a situation. It's the attitude of the person holding it. Allow me to illustrate.

At my home I keep five different shotguns hung on bicycle hooks behind curtains and over closet doors, easily accessible to me, but not easily seen. They are loaded and ready to use. I have a scanner beside my computer that is gutted and holding a loaded 1911. I have a couple of loaded guns hung on cuphooks in places that are accessible, yet not easily seen. I usually keep a handgun on my hip or in my pocket. I answer my door with a gun.

One night, around 10 PM, I was expecting my son to arrive from college to stay the night on his way to Oklahoma. I was at my desk in the den, on THR, my CCW on the desk. The doorbell rang. I got up to go to the door.

I did not look out the peephole. It was time for my son to be there, and I was not thinking. It had been a long day. I opened the door, and it wasn't my son.

A man I did not recognize got his foot in my door. I kept one arm behind the door ready to put my full weight on it. He gave me the "my car is out of gas and I have to take my sick girl to the hospital" song and dance. I knew, not just felt, but knew that he was primed for a home invasion. He possibly had others in the darkness. I was unarmed.

Now I could tell him our phone was out. I could offer to get him a cellphone. I could respond by trying to close the door. All would have resulted in me fighting for my life. When in a predicament like this, the key is to change the dynamics. Force the other guy to deal with the unexpected, the unknown.

I was not unarmed. I had my wits. I kept my right arm behind the door, drew my left up to mid chest. I looked the possible intruder dead in the eye.

I snarled, "You're at the wrong house."

"Whadaya mean I'm at the wrong house? My little girl....."

"You're at the wrong house (insert appropriate descriptor).

He stepped back, confused. Simultaneously, my wife had stepped out of the shower, and heard unfamiliar voices at the front door. She screamed. She let out the scream of a banshee. Scared the hell out of me. I jumped, spun around, not knowing if the rear of the house had been entered and if someone had their hands on her.

She was wrapped in a towel, underneath the shotgun over the hallway door, unseen by the man at the door. When I spun around, I revealed to the man at the door my right hand was empty. Out of the corner of my eye I saw him step back forward.

"Put the damned gun down!" I commanded my wife, hoping she would catch on and grab the shotgun above her. No such luck.........

She responded "There......There aren't any guns here............"

I was sunk.........I commanded again, "Put the damned gun down!"

"But, but we don't have any guns," my darling wife lied, clutching her towel tighter around herself.

By this time, the man at the door had enough. He backed up. "There ain't no need for any guns man......."

I stepped forward, and told him again "You're at the wrong (expletive) house (expletive)."

He took off running. I never found out if he was with others, or who he was. I am certain he was not taking a little girl to the hospital.

When I had no gun at hand......I only had a bluff. I knew a bluff that I did not have a phone or whatever would not work. He had plans for that.

The only thing this predator did not have plans for was the sudden realization his prey was a superior predator. He might have thought I was a cop. I could have been a cop in a house on a stake out, I suppose. I could have also have been a drug dealer, a mafiosa, or worse. The thing is, when I told him without equivocation that he was at the wrong house..........it put that seed of doubt in his mind. His brain started retreating. Where the mind goes, the body will follow. I gave the distinct impression that I was waiting on someone and he was not the one I wanted. My wife's screaming made the situation for him even crazier. He did not know what he had walked into, but he knew it was not the law. He decided he wanted no part of it, and he would ply his trade where the prey was more compliant.

Were we lucky? Yeah, we were lucky. Sometimes I think of that incident, and I wonder what I could do better.
1. Carry a gun to the door. I do this now.
2. Look out the peephole. Routine now, as it was before.

The thing is, I did those things before this incident. I have to admit I let my guard down, believing it was my son at the door.

Now, if I had a gun on my hip, or a shotgun concealed in my hand behind the door, would my approach be any different? No. In fact, he may have been prepared for a homeowner with a gun. He was not prepared for the unknown, for arriving at the wrong house.

Even so, that was the last time I will answer the door unarmed. Guns ain't a magic talisman, but they sure do help out when all else fails.

I live in Los Angeles and don't have the luxury of being able to carry a firearm to protect myself and my family. Many people out there will tell you to apply for a CCW anyway and see what happens. Statistically I have a 0.17% chance in attaining one and when I move to another state I don't want it stating on my record that I was refused a CCW prior even though I have no criminal background.

Be that as it may, Los Angeles can be a pretty violent place. This is the gang capital of the world. Those gang members are all carrying knives, guns, or both. I don't put myself in bad situations because I know how easily things can go sour, I've lived out here too long not to know that. Just last Christmas, I was in the liquor store buying a bottle of wine for my girlfriend's family when a drunken gang member walked into the store yelling obscenities at me for no reason. I was now on the red mental alert level, as I always keep myself in the yellow to stay alert. As I was paying for the wine he slid a 40 ounce of Olde English down the countertop and my arm knocked it over. I was now looking him dead in the eyes because I pretty much figured something was about to happen. I started walking out of the store while facing him (I was walking backwards) and thats when he pulled out his Walther 22 handgun from his waist. In my mind I knew he was really too drunk to even hit me, but something told me to leave that store as quickly as possible and get the hell out of there. I was enraged that this even happened to me as I did nothing wrong, but it in the grand scheme of things my mind got me home safe that night.

Would I have much preferred having my XD 40 on my hip? You bet! But unfortunately I can't afford that luxury here so the criminals run free and the cops have their hands full. I have to rely on my wits and my ability to stay calm so I can think straight to survive here.

Coincidentally, when I went to make a police report on this incident I was asked the following questions...

"Do you know his name?"

Ummm, no. Am I suppose to?

"Do you know where he lives?"

No, I didn't ask him his address while I had a gun pointed at me.

"Do you know what he drives?"

No, he walked there.

"What's he look like?"

Short, bald, hispanic male.


No, I kid you not. Do you think anything is going to happen to this guy? No, and he'll do it again to someone else........eventually.

I have quite the arsenal building up at home but I'm not allowed to carry. With no gun or weapon of any kind I got out of this situation alive by thinking. I don't wish to go through a similar one anytime soon and hope to be out of this state within the year, but its true that your mind is the most important thing to consider here. The gun is just a tool, nothing more. If guns came with magic they'd be a lot more expensive.

One of the best and most thought provoking posts I have read in quite sometime.

If you doubt the commonality of folks believing that a gun is a magic talisman, I would refer you to almost any thread concerning the shotgun as an HD weapon. The thinking is that the sound of the racking slide will scare the bejeabers out of any perpertrator and make the problem go away. If it should work, well great, but I'm not betting MY life on it.

I clearly remember the very first thing said in Tom Givens excellent basic pistol class. "A gun is not a magic wand, it is not a talisman...you can not wave it at a problem and think that will make the problem disappear". The fact is many people on these forums believe just that. My boss has his CHL, and carries his Colt Mustang unloaded, holstered in his glove compartment. This gives him a feeling of security. He clearly thinks his weapon is a talisman. I owe a big thank you to Tom. When I finished his class, I was thinking "Well crap, I wanted to learn to shoot, not all this mindset and tactics stuff." I now know that even though Tom expected the participants to know the basics of shooting, and I was deficient in this arena, the lessons I learned in the class are absolutely invaluable.

As to the example in the original post, I have taken basic shotgun, and basic pistol from Bill Davison at Tac Pro Shooting Center. I have not had the privilege of taking the Force on Force that Bill offers, but 2 of my friends have. One of the excercises is for the trainee to walk into the lobby of a public building. One of my friends told me about the expreience. He walked through the door, saw a guy standing there and says "Good afternoon". The guy says "F*** you!" and shoots him in the head. Point being sometime there is just nothing you can do. You dont see it coming.

And finally to end my disjointed ramblings, there was a recent incident that occured here in the Dallas / Fort Worth Metromess. A couple of would be home invaders decided to take on a disabled guy in a wheelchair. One of them waited outside. The other one banged on the door, the wheelchair guy's girlfriend opened it, and he charged in with a shotgun. The wheelchair guy grabbed the gun and began to grapple with the BG. The BG ends up getting killed with his own shotgun. Obviously the talisman did not work for him.

A gun is not a magic talisman, but it worked as one for me once


A guy started walking towards me with a knife...about 20 feet away...I lift my shirt so he can see the grip of the gun..guy drops knife...guy turns around...guy walks far far away

This is an easy one...

What in the first example would have let Hickok live to see 3 August 1876?

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Having eyes in the back of his head would have helped.

He was shot from behind...AMBUSHED, if you will. Dillinger was also ambushed (where the FBI agents killed two innocent by-standers). The same happened to Bonnie and Clyde. They were ambushed, and in such a predicament, most times, it is shear luck as to weather you are able to bring your weapons to bear in a timely manner. With training and conditioning, and the mindset that an ambush is possible, or even likely, your chances of reacting and saving your own life rise exponentially.

The overwhelming majority of people on this or any firearms forum - whether they have been to tactical training or not and whether they are LEO or not - are not mentally prepared to do what it takes to be as safe as they can be. The ability to identify relevant data, turn it into useful information, and apply the information to arrive at the best decision will do the most to keep one from being a victim of anything whether that is random or premeditated violence, a traffic accident, whatever. Being armed with a weapon of any sort provides one more option, the application of which should usually come far along the decision tree that decides the outcome. If that makes sense.

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Are discussing purely defensive situations, were violence is offered to you strait-on? Are we speaking, not of an ambush where no clues or indicators are available, but of a situation where violence is offered or as a result of escalation? Are we speaking of an instance where a man is at a convenience store at 0230 hours and is fully aware that there are potentially bad guys lurking about?

I would propose that a "reasonable man" would very well be able to sense when is life may be in danger. He also is able to understand that this is a situation where he would need to formulate courses of action (condition orange).

Would it help to have attended one of Cling Smith's courses? Sure it would! Would that training be absolutely necessary in order for a "reasonable man" to be able to use a defensive weapon, say... a handgun, to save his life? Absolutely not! To presume so would be the height of arrogance. How did we ever get along before Gunsite was founded????

Knowing when one's life is in danger and being able to act accordingly DOES NOT require special training. It only requires than a person be fully lucid, and be fully committed to preserving his own life.