Kahr PM9 or Kel-Tec P11?

Who said I loaded a 10 round mag with 9 rounds? I load it with 10 and chamber a round and voila, the mag rattles when you walk. Naturally I could eject the mag and add a round but then I am going to have a loose round to keep track of when I have to unload the firearm for locked storage. Personally I choose to not keep firearms loaded except when they are on my person. I have small children in the house. Don't lecture me on why I should keep the guns loaded in a locked safe.

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Ok then....

Admittedly, I have much more experience with the Kahrs. For all of you guys who have had (cough ) Bad guns....bummer. Weve got about a dozen in my family and their great. Its not easy for a new company...not even 10 years old yet, to reach the level of excellence, reputation and design the Kahrs have. Regarded in MOST circles as another Sig or HK in quality. Sure their are bad ones...but their are bad SVI's too.

The Keltec is a sleeper...IMO, KT should have charged another 50$ for the gun and done the FluffyBuffy at the factory and put steel sights on it. Just my opinion. Ive shot a couple and one had a nice trigger....it cost him 100$ according to him....1/2 of the cost of the gun? OUCH!

Im jaded....I have a killer history with Kahrs and a good but limited history with KT's....

So Kahrs win..............Shoot well

Kahr to dang expensive for me.

KT got my vote. Netheir one even comes close to the MAKAROV.

Heck I wouldnt be ashamed a Mak is a very reliable gun. 2000 rds through mine no problems period.

makarov

the mak does not take a 9mm parabellum does it? what cartridge does fire?

Kel-Tec makes a better pistol.

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LMAO! A good laugh, I needed that! Maybe Jay Leno can use that one?

I've fired a firend's P-11 on several occasions and am impressed with it, as I am with my P-32.
Also, my experience with the Kahr P series is extremely limited. However, the Kel-tec doesn't hold a candle in even the calmest weather to any K series Kahr.
All the Kahr owners I know personally have had nothing but flawless performance and mind-numbing accuracy with their K series, particularly the K9.

Regarding the PM9 in question, I know of no one personally that owns a P series, so perhaps it's a different cat than the venerated K series.

the mak does not take a 9mm parabellum does it? what cartridge does fire?

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9x18 (though some have aftermarket barrels chambered in .380acp)

So-so experience with KT P-11

Snatched up a used P11 for less than 200.00 at a pawn shop a year ago. The gun was in good shape, and performed as it was supposed to. But the long trigger pull, combined with a stiff break, led to a hard-to-shoot pistol. Either the long pull or the hard break would be somewhat OK on their own, but together...

Many, many boxes of WWWB 115 gr. later I still couldn't warm up to it. So it was traded, almost straight up, for a holster-worn S&W snubbie. Good trade.

NYPD hardly authorizes anything for backup/off duty. I believe it is a short list of Glock 26, S&W 3913, and the Kahr P9. That should say something.

The price disparity is only 200-250 in my area. What's a month or two extra on layaway for a superior tool?

Flyer,
Hey have a smile with that coke....

You keep the KT's...Ill keep the Kahrs and when/if we ever have to use them...I hope they both work flawlessly.

I KNOW THE KAHR WILL

Now go be harmonious.......

Shoot well

I've owned a P-11 for a number of years. Put several thousand rounds through it.

I never found it comfortable to shoot.

The recoil is painful, and the trigger hurts my finger, with or without the trigger shoe.

As for the trigger pull - the biggest problem is that it's inconsistent. The pressure required increases, as you pull, and doesn't increase smoothly, but with a noticable "knee".

And one thing that does bother me is the lack of a safety. I don't mean lack of an external safety - I understand the choice of not having an external safety. Revolvers have worked that way for more than 100 years.

The P11 lacks any semblence of an internal safety, as well. The only thing that is keeping the firing pin away from the primer is the spring. It's a design that is prone to drop-fires, and while that doesn't bother me in a target gun, it does bother me in a carry gun.

On the other hand, it's always been absolutely reliable for me.

The PM9, on the other hand, is smaller, nearly the same weight, is a bit easier to carry, and much more comfortable to shoot.

It's more accurate, the trigger is far easier to control, and it has a firing pin block that makes it impossible for it to discharge when dropped.

I'm not going to slam the P11 - it's a remarkable little gun for the money. But to me, the PM9 is worth the extra money.

can you get all the cool accessories, with the Kahr? Like differnt grip colors, belt clip, trigger shoe, flashlight mount, mag extensions? Also how is the Kahr warranty?

The P11 lacks any semblence of an internal safety, as well. The only thing that is keeping the firing pin away from the primer is the spring. It's a design that is prone to drop-fires, and while that doesn't bother me in a target gun, it does bother me in a carry gun.

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MANY guns with a saftey are as bad or worse thant he P-11 in drop fires... older 1911's are among them (the origonal design did not have a FP block).

You can keep your Kahr and Keltec. Ill keep my Mak.

"and hope they all work when and if needed". I know my Makarov will.

I do find it interesting that the two guns (Kahr & Keltec) are so close in the voting, its just to close to call.

Coldshot good call. Over 3000 rds through mine. Just changed springs yesterday. No Problem! I just did it.

I'm not a big fan of Kahr or KelTec, but I do own a PM9. It was too much money for what you get, but it works great and can indeed be carried in a pocket with a real 9mmP. Sorry, but the 9mm Mak isn't in the same power class as a 9mmP. I have seen a local guy do very well in IDPA shooting with a KelTec P11. In fact, I was amazed. Still, the KelTec is NOT of equal quality of a Kahr. I had a KelTec P32 that was a lemon. My opinion of KelTec was seriously damaged by it. After three trips back to the factory it still did not work. If you get a KelTec that works they are a bargain. If they don't work I am not impressed with their repair service. Fast, but ineffective. Just my opinion. Watch-Six