Cocked and locked. (again but different)

My friend and co-worker carries a Commander-sized 1911 with an ambi safety, and occasionally finds the safety "off", generally after getting out of his vehicle. He suspects the right side of the ambi safety rubbing against the car seat.

After buying a Kimber with an ambi safety, I had it replaced with a single safety. I've never found my safety "off", and I think his analysis is correct. Since I'm not a lefty, that seems like an easy solution. I did carry it safety-on, empty chamber for the first weekend, and the safety remained engaged.

The 1911 is not currently my every day carry (due to size; I'm working on it) I will get there and I do not worry about carrying C&L.

jessel,
You are right, I would not feel safe either. Therefore the advise to carry with an empty chamber. Remember, owning a weapon is a right. I can't disarm a neighbor on his own property because I think he is untrained. The best I can do is give wise advice.


fiddletown,

I agree. That is why I would advise empty chamber carry to anyone who insists upon carrying (it is their right) yet is not trained or equiped. Empty chamber is the next best thing to unloaded.

I would agree, except that in the example I gave, it means you are abandoning your damaged home after a hurricane, and staying out of it until the danger of looting has passed. Remember, damage that might mean the inability to secure your property. No cleaning up your possessions scattered around the neighborhood, no tacking down tarps to stop additional rain damage to your property, and quite possibly leaving a known hazard (your neighbor) for unknown hazards...

There is no good answer to this scenario that I can see other than diplomatically educating your neighbor as best you can.

I personally think that people are wimps if they don't carry in condition Zero, after all, the trigger is not going to be pulled...

Just kidding, Once I got a decent holster I didn't have a problem with my BHP in Condition 1.

I expect that if it really was an unsafe practice, it would have become known at some point in the last century.

I heard somewhere that the SAS used to carry their HiPowers in Condition 0. I've done the same on a few occasions. Not intentionally, but the safety sometimes gets taken off accidentally. If you're really that concerned about it coming off while carrying there are some makers of kydex holsters that have models that lock the safety in the on position while in the holster.

Grew up mostly with long guns. Learned early "thats why they made safetys".
I do reccomend carrying C3 for a day or two with a new holster.
Glocks scare me, no safety! Pull trigger = BANG
Condition 1 and only

far as im concerned, i fear hammer down carry

!911 safe habdling

During the 70+ years that the military issued the .45 automatic, protocol required condition 3 carry. I have been told that some nco's enforced this rule in combat areas. Three of my uncles went through ww2 combat a la conditon 3. One was at Tarawa with the Marines. One was with the 101 airborne from start to finish, and the other was with the Big Red One from North Africa on to Italy, then Normandy, and then across the Rhine. Each was an nco. The Marine at age 40 landed at Inchon with a condition 3 .45.

For general use-military or civilian-it was taught that a .45 with chamber loaded was dangerous because it could fire if dropped. How? The inertia firing pin might acquire enough momentum to set-off the primer. This possibility was and is true for those pistols lacking the firing pin safety, and it could occur in conditions 1 and 2. I bought my first .45 in 1970, and the Colt manual warned of this possibility.

I used to like condition 2 until my thumb slipped.

I do not remember ever talking to a WW2 veteran who liked the 1911. I have heard at least a score of these guys criticize the .45 auto for having too much recoil, being too heavy, and and being inaccurate. I attribute poor training for this attitude.


Loosecannon

The ONLY time I have had my safety come off was long ago when I was using an extended safety in a "mexican" carry.

Got rid of the extended safety and have never had the problem again.

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I've been looking at "custom" 1911's, but almost all of them have these extended safeties.

I, too, am not a fan of extended safeties. The "pre 80" Combat Commander and the 1991A1 Commander I have both have standard length safeties and I've been very happy with them.

Is market pressure so great that the mfgrs don't care about the risk of having safeties swept off? Maybe they don't know?

Will you remember to take off the safety when under duress?

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Yes, and I can do it with one hand.

Will you remember to take off the safety when under duress?

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Yes, it's all in your training. I was taught at Gunsite to swipe the safety off after the pistol clears the holster and when rotating the gun up towards the target.

I carry a 1911 about 80% of the time, the rest of the time I carry a Kahr which has the striker system like a Glock, XD, M&P, etc.

Years ago, before I carried, I was having a discussion with a friend that was a gunsmith and told him my concerns about a 1911. He explained it to me the best I could understand but I was still not 100% confident. My first carry holster was a Bianchi with a thumb strap that went between the hammer and slide when the gun was cocked and locked. I carried this way for a while and realized that the safety did a good job of staying on.

Then I read this article and which did a great job of explaining how a thumb safety works on a 1911: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/cockedandlocked.htm

This last year I built my own 1911 and now fully understand how the thumb safety works. There is also a good video on youtube for testing the thumb safety on a 1911: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t1U_nBY4C0

Now I just need to get over the fact that my Kahr does not have a safety. If feels weird putting in the holster knowing that if the trigger gets pressed it is going to fire, there is nothing that will prevent it from happening. Same goes for a Glock, XD, or any other DA only or striker fired gun that does not have a safety.

The XD won't fire if the trigger gets accidentally depressed. The grip safety must be disengaged, too.

When I got my first 1911, I just looked at it, saw the hammer was cocked, the safety was on and holstered it and went on about my business. No big deal. It never occured to me that it was dangerous or anything unusual about it.

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I don't believe that is a common response when one sees a cocked hammer.

My first Carry Gun was a Colt CCO. My father purchased it for me because I was only 19 at the time. When he gave it to me I loaded up the Mag, Chambered a round and never thought twice about it.

And yes my first stop was the range to made sure it functioned properly, it did.

Carried a 1911 A1 for fifty years in condition one in a Don
Hume holster. Open trigger guard, and place the retaining
strap across the cocked back hammer.

Ruger p89, one in the pipe, dual action, or single action. No need to be cocked in the holster, it doesn't have a safety, it has a decocking lever. It will fire 1 round without the magazine in. And very reliable.

+1

I concur with the 30-day trial. Carry it cocked and locked without a round in the chamber. You should try while driving to see if your seat or seatbelt configuration has any possibility to clicking the thumb safety off.

Even with the thumb safety off, the grip safety works until you put your hand around the handgrip. So I say try it for 30 days or a week or whatever you feel comfortable with, and then slide in your mag and stop worrying abotu it.

the grip safety works until you put your hand around the handgrip.

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Usually, but just make sure it does before you trust it. Same goes for any of the safeties on the gun.

the best

the best safety is the one between both ears. It is quite evident from even reading some of these posts, that some should not own a 1911 style handgun.

Probably a good ol fashion wheel gun would serve most of those pretty well.1911 fans will tell you cocked and locked is perfectly ok. glocksters will tell you the SAS is as safe as they want also. Kahr owners will just tell you to keep your damn bugger finger up ur nose instead of in the trigger guard. ALL THREE ARE RIGHT...

jocko said:

Kahr owners will just tell you to keep your damn bugger finger up ur nose instead of in the trigger guard.

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Well, no sheeyat, jocko.

That goes for ANY firearm. You do realize that, right?

No, this method of carry never bothered me.

Carrying my first gun made me a bit worried for about a day. But, that was just newbie jitters.