Beware: Accidentally Carrying Through Random Border Patrol Checkpoints in Western WA

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U

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First,

Mods, please feel free to close, move or remove if this thread is deemed inappropriate - I wasn't sure where to put it. For those of you in Western WA that travel the Highway 20 corridor (and likely some of you will, with the east-side deer modern firearm opener this weekend) be aware that the Border Patrol and Immigration / Customs have a temporary checkpoint set-up near Newhalem, WA. As with all check-points of this type, you may or may not be searched, however, you will likely be stopped, and questioned.

Please be aware that you are passing through a National Park at that point, and if you have forgotten to "break down" and put away your CCW, that you could be subject to the current NPS regulations regarding the carrying of firearms.

Just a heads up.

Stay Safe,

U
 
According to my maps, unless they have changed the boundries of the North Cascades National Park, Highway 20 does not cross the Park. It goes through a corridor called the Ross Lake National Recreation Area. Are the rules the same for Recreation Areas??
 
Although you can hunt in many National Recreation Areas, they are, for the most part, administered identically to national parks. Concealed carry would be handled the same way as it would in any other National Park unit.

Sorry for the confusion, the highway does indeed technically cross through the Ross Lake National Recreation Area. Concealed carry can still get you in trouble if you're not aware of your location.

Regards,

U
 
I think National Recreation Areas can be managed by either Interior or Agriculture; that is, either the National Park Service or the National Forest Service, so that is what would determine the legal status. I think...
 
There should be no lawful reason for any non-illegal immigrant to be searched, so do not consent to a search. It's this sort of stupid, inconsistent law that can get people in trouble, and why no one should ever consent to such a deprivation of their privacy. I don't think you even have to answer their questions, which will basically be, "What country are you from."
 
I do not think you can "not consent" to Customs searching your vehicle. Customs have broader powers to protect the nations borders than regular law enforcement when it comes to search and seizure eg laptop seizures at borders.
 
I do not think you can "not consent" to Customs searching your vehicle. Customs have broader powers to protect the nations borders than regular law enforcement when it comes to search and seizure eg laptop seizures at borders.
Click to expand...

That is true if you are outside the US, at a border patrol point of entry on our international border. In that case, you basically have to answer their questions and allow a search of whatever's with you, or you don't get into the US.

But if you're already inside the US, I'd like to see what if any true legal basis they have for forcing you to be searched.

That youtube video is pretty amazing.
 
That vid looked the checkpoint they had on Hwy 83 by where I used to live SE of Tucson. That guy could have gotten out of there by simply saying "USA" in answer to the pregunta.

All that said, I was on my way home at night from a hunting scouting trip in the Mule Mountains south of Tombstone when BP came to meet me at the end of a LONG dirt road I was on. I rolled down my window when I saw who they were, said "How y'all doin' tonight?" They asked what I'd been doing, I told them and they said "OK, drive safe." They get sooooo many illegals through there that wasn't about to hassel them about doing their job.

Besides, if you notice, that confrontation was handeled rather well by the BP officer. She did ultimatly let him go even if she did persist in trying to get him to answer the question a bit more than should have been apparent was really necessary.
 
It's not necessary for the border patrol to stop people inside our borders.

Back on the subject, it'd be an interesting test case if the border patrol, inside our borders, insisted on a warentless search, and turned up a weapon, wouldn't it?
 
If you're as irritated by this as I am, feel free to contact your congressional representative. I've been trying to send mine the following letter all day, but apparently the House's e-mail site is plugged up at the moment (imagine that, eh?). I finally settled for a brief phone call to my local rep's local office.

Here's my letter:

Congressman X,

I am writing to you out of concern over the random Border Patrol checkpoints enacted within your district. Recently, the Border Patrol and ICE have begun operating a checkpoint along State Highway 20, near Newhalem. While I appreciate the need to police immigration, and to respond to the recent discovery of illegal marijuana grow sites in North Cascades National Park, I find it deplorable that your constituency is being detained and questioned without cause. Yesterday, while crossing through this checkpoint, I observed at least ten Border Patrol and ICE agents on duty operating this station. Surely there are more productive ways to reduce illegal immigration and illegal drug traffic, than the random detention, questioning, and illegal search of innocent, vacationing citizens.

Additionally, as the State of Washington does not permit its own law enforcement agencies to enact such checkpoints, ICE and the Border Patrol should be respectful of Washington's laws and its citizens rights, and immediately disband such checkpoints.

Again, I am a strong supporter of law enforcement, immigration control, and elimination of the illegal growing of marijuana on our public lands, however, such checkpoints do a very poor job of policing any of these issues, and represent a violation of our constitutionally guaranteed protections.

Respectfully,

U
 
Although you can hunt in many National Recreation Areas, they are, for the most part, administered identically to national parks. Concealed carry would be handled the same way as it would in any other National Park unit.

Sorry for the confusion, the highway does indeed technically cross through the Ross Lake National Recreation Area. Concealed carry can still get you in trouble if you're not aware of your location.
Click to expand...

Now imagine that situation in a state with a legal duty to inform any LEO whenever you are carrying.

"Excuse me sir which nation are you a citizen of?"
"The United States of America."
"Thank you sir have a good..."
"I am a CHL holder and am currently carrying a pistol."

LEO draws weapon.
"Sir you are on land managed by the Nation Park Service and in violation of firearm laws. Keep your hands where I can see them and step out of the vehicle."

Or something along those lines.
 
"Excuse me sir which nation are you a citizen of?"
"The United States of America."
"Thank you sir have a good..."
"I am a CHL holder and am currently carrying a pistol."
Click to expand...

That would be a moron CCW person who continues to engage the cop AFTER the cop has released him.
 
I believe and IANAL but FOPA should trump this.

You are going from place of legal carry TO a place of legal carry, without interruption and following the laws of the state or location. Also there is no intent to break a law
 
There should be no lawful reason for any non-illegal immigrant to be searched, so do not consent to a search.
Click to expand...
What about either extended border searches, or searches at the functional equivalent of the border - which are how most Border Patrol Check points are set up? Don't they have different rules for them, rules that are the same as those for border searches - which do not require a warrant or consent?
 
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I believe and IANAL but FOPA should trump this.

You are going from place of legal carry TO a place of legal carry, without interruption and following the laws of the state or location. Also there is no intent to break a law
Click to expand...

I haven't checked it today, but I think FOPA only overrules state and local laws, not other federal laws. The law against carry in a national park is of course federal law.
 
Back on the subject, it'd be an interesting test case if the border patrol, inside our borders, insisted on a warentless search, and turned up a weapon, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

The weapon would be suppressed. There is a fundamental difference between a search at the border and a search within the country.
 
Sergeant Sabre said:
Highly relevant to the discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6uw7506xMw
Click to expand...

What a stupid way to turn something simple into a belligerence-fest.

I agree it's kind of odd to have an immigration checkpoint that's not a the border, though. Still, no reason to be a jackass like that guy absolutely makes a point of doing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. The driver asked what was going on and got an answer. Keeps on acting like a arrogant, sanctimonious dork. Geeesh.
 
Back on the subject, it'd be an interesting test case if the border patrol, inside our borders, insisted on a warentless search, and turned up a weapon, wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

I don't think it would. The Border Patrol doesn't have all kinds of uber-search powers, except at border crossings. They know that.

Now imagine that situation in a state with a legal duty to inform any LEO whenever you are carrying.

"Excuse me sir which nation are you a citizen of?"
"The United States of America."
"Thank you sir have a good..."
"I am a CHL holder and am currently carrying a pistol."

LEO draws weapon.
"Sir you are on land managed by the Nation Park Service and in violation of firearm laws. Keep your hands where I can see them and step out of the vehicle."

Or something along those lines.
Click to expand...

Laughable. Is that you how you think police act and talk? Like robots?
 
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