Texas Open Carry Petition

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Cyborg

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This may be old news but I just heard about it this morning. There is an online petition drive going to support a proposed law in the upcoming session of the Texas Legislature that would make openly carrying in Texas legal. I am urging folks currently residing in Texas to sign the petition. Others may sign as well but only Texas voters are likely to carry any real weight.

Here is the URL to the petition site:
http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html

Here is the text of the petition:
To: Texas State Legislature and Texas Governor Rick Perry
We hold that all citizens who may lawfully purchase a handgun be allowed to carry openly in public in the State of Texas except for those places prohibited by law. We also call for state preemption of all handgun laws concerning open carry in Texas.

1. Every individual has the right and responsibility to defend their self against unjustified threats of death or serious bodily injury.

2. The Constitution of the United States guarantees the right of individuals to keep and bear arms.

3. Criminals are not deterred by rules, regulations, and laws forbidding the possession of weapons. A man bent on mass murder will not be stopped by a rule forbidding him to have a gun.

4. It is well known that the requirement to conceal a handgun for the purpose of protecting self, friends, and family can be difficult especially in Texas with our extreme heat since a person will usually have to wear a jacket to properly conceal a handgun and to avoid "printing."

5. The requirement to conceal a handgun can make it difficult to draw the weapon should the life of the carrier or the life of someone else be in danger.

6. A criminal will not open carry a weapon because he does not want to draw attention to himself. We believe that a citizen openly carrying a handgun lawfully will be a deterrent for crime.

7. Ten states including Arizona, Alaska, Idaho, Kentucky, Montana, New Mexico, South Dakota, Virginia, Vermont, and Wyoming all allow open carry of handguns without a license. Twelve states including Connecticut, Indiana, Iowa, Georgia, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, North Dakota, Rhode Island, Utah, and Tennessee allow open carry of handguns with a license. In fact, Texas is one of only SIX states in the entire United States that completely bans open carry of handguns.

8. In these states, Open carry is very common and it does not alarm law enforcement or other citizens.

For the foregoing reasons, we residents of the State of Texas affirm and assert that all citizens who may lawfully purchase a handgun be allowed to carry openly in public in the State of Texas except for those places prohibited by law. We also call for state preemption of all handgun laws concerning open carry in Texas.


Sincerely,

The Undersigned
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Note: "Preemption" means that the law would prohibit counties and municipalities from passing local ordinances that would block exercise of the priviledges granted by the state law. Without such preemption, counties and municipalities could make it an offense punishable by (likely a very STEEP) fine in that jurisdiction (like Chicago is trying to do now?). I figure that Austin/Travis County would for certain do that if the law did not prohibit it. Dallas and Houston would also be likely candidates to do so, too. I'm not too sure about San Antonio/Bexas County but since Bexar County was only one of about 2 counties in Texas that went for Barama, I would not be surprised. S.A. cops don't like the idea of civilians carrying at all for the most part. Many (most?) don't even like security guards being armed.

Anyhow, follow the link and sign the petition. Then watch the fireworks in the upcoming legislative session.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cyborg
Burying your head in the sand only makes your a** a better target.
 
While I support the idea, I hope everyone knows that online petitions have no weight with any organization. "Signatures" can be faked, no guarantee of origin, etc...

It's like spitting in the ocean to cause a wave, but hey, spit away :)

If you REALLY wanted to make a difference, you could just make calls to your representatives in local government, and if a Petition is your way, start a pen and paper petition, and get real signatures, I'm sure in Texas, getting signatures on a hard copy "open carry" petition would not be difficult.

I don't want to come off "holier than thou", so please don't take it that way! Just wanted to "inform" those who didn't know, and encourage you to take local steps!
 
call members of Law Enforcement committee

I called my state rep and her staff said to call/email talk to the members of the Law Enforcement committee.

That would be the first place to start.

Note per Joe Driver's staff (he sheparded the cc license stuff) in Austin, there is currently zilch/nada drafts pending. And low to no 'interest' (in their dreams).

They were apparently discussing various 'licensing' tools With reguard to 'open carry' however.

Call and holler Vermont/Alaska and get on your reps too.

I've spoken to several state reps staff and they are getting tons of calls the reps are just ignoring them.

Does anyone know any TX state Senators?

I personally can't fathom why the TX Leg would ignore this right now.


woerm
 
I still can't believe that Texas of all states in not already open carry. What about all those cowboys with them old six shooters out driving cattle and ****?? Nevada is open carry for all weapons. Pistols, rifles, shotguns. The one resident Nevadan woman out here doesn't like it since she is from the PRC (California) and is a liberal. But us two or three guys that live out here are fine with it.
 
Living in Moscow on the Colorado here's the deal with Texas Government. The money currently is concentrated in the metro areas of Dallas, Houston, Austin, and SA almost exclusively. That means the legislative members from those areas carry huge weight, as their constituents sorta control the purse strings. Texas is by and large still conservative on most issues, however in the metro areas a lot of folks have been told by several decades worth of police chiefs that guns are bad and cause crime. I have friends who are carrying CHL holders who think open carry is a bad idea, due to so many anti-gun opinions.

Now if the money was more widely distributed (such as during the Oil boom when rural Texas had the cash) it would probably be a totally different story.

For the moment the Texas Legislature is going to have to work within the current confines of the rules and regulations regarding carrying weapons to be able to add open carry. I can see Texas getting open carry as an option for CHL holders. I can see Texas getting open carry in a vehicle under the current Traveling statute. I can even see Texas possibly getting open carry with a certain licensing, such as removing restrictions on security guards, and non-peace officers (certain state investigators aren't consider peace officers and the like). Straight up unrestricted open carry, as much as I like the idea I don't see happening until the money moves out of the cities again.

-Jenrick
 
i signed it months ago, despite knowing full well that internet petitions accomplish little to nothing.

i have also written my state senator and representative. my rep has consistently ignored my emails and paper letters on firearms issues, which is thoroughly unsurprising. my senator (despite representing "moscow on the colorado" :)) has actually been pretty responsive. doesn't mean he'll actually do anything though.

i want to second zombienerd's sentiments that contacting your reps is far more important than signing the online petition. contact them early and often. paper letters are best.
 
i want to second zombienerd's sentiments that contacting your reps is far more important than signing the online petition. contact them early and often. paper letters are best.
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I agree with this, but petitions accomplish a few things, first they allow us a modicum of concertive effort as we all know now that a push is being made so we can do our best to help that push by contacting our people.

The petition itself does little or nothing, but if you look at the dialouge and actions that the petition has inspired it is WELL WORTH IT to sign and pass it on.
 
If you "open carry", how will you know who is licensed to open carry and who is NOT licensed?
 
If you "open carry", how will you know who is licensed to open carry and who is NOT licensed?
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Really? :banghead:

I assume it would be as simple as an LEO asking to see your carry license...much like they do when they want to know if you're licensed to drive or not.
 
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Depends on the wording on the new statute. If it contains a clause giving LEO's the power/authority to ask for a license at any and all times then there would be no infringement on the4th amendment. In Texas it is completely legal to stop a vehicle solely to check if the drivers is licensed and has valid insurance. Now driving is obviously not a constitutionally protected right, but as of yet, no SC decision has said that open carrying a firearm is either.

-Jenrick
 
In Texas it is completely legal to stop a vehicle solely to check if the drivers is licensed and has valid insurance.
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Yeah you're gonna have a tough time proving that one up I believe. In fact recently the DPS asked the state attorney general if it was legal to set up drivers license checkpoints. DPS scrapped their plans after legislators told them pretty clearly that it would come back and bite them in the a&&. Those were outlawed in Texas in the 90's.

That and of course Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648 (1979) where the Supreme Court said that police stopping vehicles for no reason other than to check the drivers' licenses and registrations was unconstitutional. That and Brown v Texas make random questioning of open carriers to show a permit unlikely to work in my opinion.

From Prouse:

In an 8-to-1 decision, the Court held that the privacy interests of travelers outweighed the state interests in discretionary spot checks of automobiles. The Court found that random checks made only marginal contributions to roadway safety and compliance with registration requirements; less intrusive means could have been used to serve the same ends. Officers must be held to a "probable cause" standard for searches, otherwise individuals would be subject to "unfettered governmental intrusion" each time they entered an automobile.
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TSRA

If the Texas State Rifle Association isn't on board with their lobbiest, Alice Tripp, then this isn't going anywhere.

Bills have to have sponsors and a lobby to organize testimony in front of the right (and friendly) committees, co-sponsors to buttonhole and trade votes on the floor- both house and senate sponsors to file identical bills from both sides. They don't just happen because they are good ideas.

I think I read that Mike Stollenwerk had someone who was going to file a bill but it will probably die in a commitee.

The states that have open carry have it as something that got overlooked or wasn't dealt with years and years ago. For a state to recognize the right to open carry here in the present era is going to take real work...the kind of work only the TSRA could do in Texas.

So, join the TSRA (at more than the basic level) and call James Dark, the director, go to the TSRA convention in Mesquite in February and get ready to make your message heard. Make sure you have friends who are willing to fork over a total of at least 20K (total, not each), to get this rolling. You are going to have to convince the TSRA directors. They would be friendly, but still have to be firmly on board.

This is a good idea and the petition demonstates some of its appeal among a friendly crowd, but it will have to grow legs and a pocketbook to get off the floor and actually have a chance.
 
zombienerd said:
While I support the idea, I hope everyone knows that online petitions have no weight with any organization.
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I have a suspicion you are right. That is why I emailed both my State Representative and State Senator. Emails do work as evidenced by the letter from my State Representative (who lives about 3 miles away from my house) today. Here is the text of the letter (name changed to protect the innocent ;) )
Dear [Cyborg],

I received your email, dated December 12, 2008, regarding your request for me to support legislation that would allow Texans to openly carry holstered handguns.

I can assure you that I will give it my full consideration when it comes time for a vote.

Thank you for your interest in good government.


Ruth Jones McClendon
State Representative, House District 120
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(note: the word "full" in the 2nd sentence was underlined in the original)

Not sure exactly what the "full consideration" means. Anyhow I urge everyone to write or email their state representative and senator to ask them to support the bill - or better yet to SPONSOR it.

Find your State Representative at http://www.fyi.legis.state.tx.us
Find your State Senator at http://www.fyi.legis.state.tx.us

Pretty much all of them have capability to send an email from their site. Of course you could support your USPS and snail mail it, too.

Cyborg
 
TexasRifleman:

§ 521.025. LICENSE TO BE CARRIED AND EXHIBITED ON
DEMAND; CRIMINAL PENALTY. (a) A person required to hold a
license under Section 521.021 shall:
(1) have in the person's possession while operating a
motor vehicle the class of driver's license appropriate for the
type of vehicle operated; and
(2) display the license on the demand of a magistrate,
court officer, or peace officer.
(b) A peace officer may stop and detain a person operating a
motor vehicle to determine if the person has a driver's license as
required by this section.
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Now I'm not saying it's not gonna get thrown out of court, as I matter of fact I know that it will get tossed in Travis. It however is still on the books and is still legal.

We got into a rather large debate about this at work one night, regarding illegal searches, pretext stops, and a host of other things. What it all boiled down to was it's Travis County, it wont work :)

I hadn't read Prouse, I'll have to look that one up. As we all know there are a lot of laws on the books that are not "good" under case law, but still are on the books. Can beat the rap, can't beat the ride.

-Jenrick
 
Also check McDonald v Texas

http://www.6thcoa.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/htmlopinion.asp?OpinionId=8664

In this case a guy was arrested for driving without a license and then fleeing. But, in the appellate courts findings they talk about the unreasonableness of this.

In this case an LEO had stopped the guy, McDonald, a couple of days eariler for another offense and knew the guy didn't have a license. So, the appellate court found that stopping him a second time was OK since the LEO had previous knowledge.

That could lead to a conclusion that if LE does not have any other reason to stop that stopping simply to check a license would not hold up.

Frankly I'm at the point where I don't care what the law is, nor do I care about the "ride".

If I'm pulled over for nothing other than a driver's license check I'm old and bored enough that I'd likely refuse to show it. Who knows, it's easy to say that on here :)
Point is I don't think any Texas LE agency is dumb enough to try it.

That DPS is asking the AG for clarification tells me I'm not likely to see this in real life, whether there is some law on the books or not.

Texas Penal Code still contains 21.06, outlawing homosexual contact in the state. That law was declared unconstitutional in Lawrence v Texas but the law is still on the books. An arrest now under that law would make someone VERY wealthy.

Same with the drivers license thing. It's still on the books but declared unconstitutional in, it appears, at least 2 cases maybe more.

So, getting back to open carry, a law that allows open carry but allows LE to ask for a permit every time open carry is observed, would be unconstitutional as well.

You can't be asked to show a permit solely for doing a perfectly legal thing. And if you are and subsequently arrested, you get a new airplane courtesy of the State :)
 
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