Another stimulus, another gun?

If I get a stimulus its going to be used for a BOHICA arms upper.

I suggest a REFI on the card... right quick!

Here's a huge THUMBS UP to this one...

The ONLY way they'll fix the economy is to DRASTICLY cut taxes and cut gov't spending to the bone---starting with no more bailouts and ending with welfare and social security---which are neither.

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AMEN!!!

HUGE +1 on the above statement.

Welfare and social security are terrible programs.

Welfare is wealth redistribution by taking from those who work and giving it to those who don't. Social Security is a government sponsored Ponzi scheme.

Simplest way to put it.

Life ain't supposed to be fair and government is not here to make it fair. Government is here to provide for the general defense and making sure that we have a right to PURSUE life, liberty and happiness. The right to PURSUE does not guarantee that you will have it, but you will get a shot at it. That's all it is.

The day government becomes the entity that provides me life, liberty, and happiness... is the day that I will cease to actually have any of the above.

Rock Island .45acp

The ONLY way they'll fix the economy is to DRASTICLY cut taxes and cut gov't spending to the bone---starting with no more bailouts and ending with welfare and social security---which are neither.

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+1

I just don't have the words.

Glock 34!

I am not sure why you say that. As I understand it, it is a tax cut. Less tax is being taken by the government. Is that not what it is?

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Its a completely unfunded tax cut that comes at a time of unprecedented spending - essentially cutting income while you're simultaneously spending more. Its simply not a sound fiscal policy unless it would increase market liquidity and unfreeze the credit markets, but it won't. Moreover, that $300bn cut is only part of Obama's plan - theres going to be a lot more defecit spending to come. Something absolutely has to be done to target the central issue here - declining real estate prices and forclosures - which will cost a few hundred billion, even if mortgage writedown losses are split between lenders/MBS holders and the government. Until that issue is resolved the US economy is going to continue to hemmorage and our financial system will be in danger, regardless of these other "stimulus" programs. Obama's $300bn tax cut will only amount to a $10-20/week increase in net income for most taxpayers for a period of 1-2 years will have minimal effect, if any at all, especially with consumer confidence at a all time low, and with unemployment likely to hit 8-9%, possibly 10% or more this year. Heck, that $10/week would barely cover my lunch for a day (if I even got it, but I probably earn too much)

I'm a fiscal conservative, in the spirit of Goldwater, and generally all for tax cuts, but the economy is in a very bad way right now and the $250bn or so Paulson already spent on recapitalization of the banking system was woefully mishandled, not significant (given the size of some of the recipient's balance sheets...cough...Citi..cough...), and almost completely ineffective in its stated goal of increasng lender liquidity and opening the credit markets. If this mess isn't handled right, the US could easily lose its triple-A credit rating, resulting in increased borrowing costs, much higher taxes, and deep cuts in government programs across the board - including defense spending. FDIC is also at risk, with far less in its reserves than the amount of insured deposits it covers (FWIW, the failure of IndyMac alone drained almost 15% of FDICs reserves and didn't fully cover insured deposits beyond the $100k limit).

I disagree with quite a lot of what you said above Shaggy. I think what we need are more tax cuts, not less. I agree with you that we need to cut spending massively. But people need to be able to keep more of their own money.

I have never heard the expression "unfunded tax cut" until now. I think all tax cuts are unfunded. It just means the government is taking less of our money.

If a Check is sent I will buy a firearm with it. However I don't think that will happen. BHO plan is going to be a money war between the states, which ever state has the most needed Construction of Roads and Government Buildings will get the Money, And We tax payers will Still PAY for it ....... I don't work in the Construction Business. So The place i worked at Semitool http://www.semitool.com/ that had to let 300 go including Me and the complete shut down at the Aluminum plant. Is not going to be affected buy the Obama Plan....

Government Spending Will not Help the Economy.......
Pretty soon allot of people will live in ObamaVilles. Does any one remember HooverVilles..

$700 billion is a lot of money. What Obama should do with it is give it back to the taxpayers. That would equate to about $400,000.00 to each and every taxpayer. I know if I had that kind of money I'd pay off all my bills

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Or maybe $4,000.
It's $700 billion...I think you used $700 eleventybazillion.

He's gonna give it "back" to the nonproductive class, if he can get away with it. The American taxpayer is only a cash cow. He's got a lot of votes to pay for.

I didn't get one last time... Sure is nice to get an education, get a good job, work hard, and get paid well - just to hand over 30% of the pay before it even hits your bank account, and then watch all of your friends go buying new toys with their free checks from uncle sam...

I disagree with quite a lot of what you said above Shaggy

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To answer your question, it is taking less of people's money (which is usually a good thing), but there's a lot of defecit spending thats got to happen to get out of this mess and the little benefit obtained by $1000-2000 spread over 2 years isn't worth the $300bn cost when several hundred billion dolars of other more drastic measures will have to be taken anyway. Its unfunded in that there is no surplus, but a rather large defecit already pushing 8-10% of GDP.

Now you don't have to believe me (what do I know - I only work at a Wall Street law firm on a team dealing with some of aftermath of the multi-billion dollar losses on failed CDO's built on securitized mortage debt and the default swaps backing them that at one major financial institution). But perhaps you would be interested in what some of the best economists, policy makers, and bond traders in the world are saying. If you listen to people like Joseph Stiglitz (Columbia), Marty Feldstein (Harvard), Nouriel Roubini (NYU), Shelia Bair (FDIC), Warren Buffett (who has endorsed Bair's plan), Mohammed el-Erian & Bill Gross (PIMCO), you'd see they're all saying the same thing - the forclosure problem has to be addressed to stem the hemmoraging in the financial system which will ease liquidity and unfreeze the credit markets.

I didn't get one last time either and won't get one anytime soon. They just deduct the balance that I "owe" them. Being in debt to the governement has revolutionized my view of political affairs though, I will grant that.

Since I am in this situation, I guess I will have to work harder, so I can stimulate myself.

The foreclosure "problem" was pretty much caused by federally mandated easy credit, it seems. So the solution to the problem is MORE federal mandates?

"Here, this cyanide oughta cure that cold we gave you."

I didn't get one last time... Sure is nice to get an education, get a good job, work hard, and get paid well - just to hand over 30% of the pay before it even hits your bank account, and then watch all of your friends go buying new toys with their free checks from uncle sam...

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What is problem, Comrade?

shaggy said; but there's a lot of deficit spending thats got to happen to get out of this mess

I disagree, If the Government would Cut all Programs that Don't make sense, it would save Large amounts of Money. If the tax code was as easy as 10% across the Board the IRS would not have Needed to Hire Hundreds of Personnel to Fight tax evasion. Its been proven that dropping tax % Increases Revenue to the Gov. This is so easy, If I cant afford a New GUN I DON'T Need One, If Your State Cant Afford a New Bridge your state Don't Need one, If the Feds cant afford to Bail out Banks and Auto Industry they don't need to do it. If I buy a Gun i cant Afford I deserve to go Bankrupt.
If a Shop owner cant afford to stay in business then he goes under or chapter 10 (I think thats what they call it, chapter 10) Same with A Bank or GM, Dodge, Ford.

The foreclosure "problem" was pretty much caused by federally mandated easy credit, it seems. So the solution to the problem is MORE federal mandates?

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No, that was only a small part of the problem, but its not just subprimes that are the problem. If you're looking for causes, look to shopping for triple-A ratings among the big three agencies on derivatives, the Gramm Leach Bailey Act, leverage ratios completely out of line with prudent practice (30:1 for most IB's and hedge funds), the growth of a completely speculative CDS market since the GLBA (growth to around $50-70 trillion total notional value in 6-8 years within the context of a $14 trillion economy), no oversight of the CDS market coupled with counterparties that never expected and couldn't possibly meet their obligations in a declining market (sort of like making a billion dollar naked short and having the stock rise 100% on you), utterly speculative CDS plays by counterparties with no stake or interest in the underlying bond, credit downgrades of monoline insurers AMBAC and MBIA...

Care to explain away the above issues?

I disagree with quite a lot of what you said above Shaggy. I think what we need are more tax cuts, not less. I agree with you that we need to cut spending massively. But people need to be able to keep more of their own money.

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Agreed, we need more tax cuts. But Obama's tax cut for the working/middle class of $10 to $20 more per weekly paycheck is a frickin' joke!!!

HECK yeah! Actually, I'm buying a gun then with or without the rebate check, and I doubt I'll get it since I owe those drunken sailor spenders in Washington some money as it is.

Since I am in this situation, I guess I will have to work harder, so I can stimulate myself.

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We all got to do what we got to do, to git 'er done.

Oh, and we need a permanant and significant tax cut for the lower and middle class, mucho pronto, to stimulate the economy. There's not enough shovel ready projects for the public works spending jobs to have any real effect within a year or so. But a tax cut works well and works immediately.

A bit part of the recession was caused by the lack of disclosure / negligent management / borderline fraud by white collar criminals execs at Fannie and Freddie, and the politicians who are cozy with them (lack of oversight/accountability, combined with a fat bailout), including (surprise) Barack Obama at number 2 on the list of campaign contribution recipients, behind Chris Dodd:

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html

Shaggy, sounds like you are brilliant enough that you managed to avoid any hit to your portfolio in 2008, unlike most.

Shaggy, sounds like you are brilliant enough that you managed to avoid any hit to your portfolio in 2008, unlike most.

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Narrowly. I thought the stock market was a bit too high and was looking to investment properties instead. Once I started looking around, however, I realized the housing market was overpriced, in part due to the deterioration of lending standards, and was likely to have some sort of a correction sooner or later. Now I'm just waiting to take advantage of any deals that may come up.

akodo thats too much common sence for the govment. im in that bottom rung trying to support a family on 22.5k a year and 10k would have done many things for me like stop countrywide from calling me twice a week to see when im going to make up the payment i missed when i was laid off and fixed my truck so i dont have to be terrified the wheel will fall off when im going down the road and heated my house for the winter and still left me enough $ to get my wife the hi point 9mm that she wants 1k rounds to plink with And stick a bit of cash in the bank so next time im laid off (probably very soon) i wouldnt have to worry about the house payment.

Going to start finishing the basement with that dough.
I used the last "stimulus" to pour a couple slabs of concrete in my back yard.
Eventually, I'll have nothing else to spend these "stimulus packages" on and then, yes, I'll buy several guns.