2 handguns. 98 rounds fired. 13 people dead. All in 1 minute? I don't believe it!

easily doable with 30 round mags.

how accessible are 30 round mags in NY?

You could bring them in from a different state, even though it'll be illegal.

Pre-ban mags are still legal in NYS.

Also, the PA border is very close to Binghamton.


But, the logical conclusion is that murder is also illegal in NYS.

So noble of Chuck Schumer et al to offer the victims posthumous citizenship. (?!)

Before anything, I want to say that my heart goes out to the victims and their friends and families. In talking about these things, I think its important that others know the cold and academic things we write in analyzing situations is not for a lack of sorrow.

"Ballistics reports showed Jiverly Wong fired 87 times from a 9mm Beretta and 11 times from a .45-caliber handgun"...

[Police Chief Joseph Zikuski said] "Our range people tell us it was over in a minute, a minute and a half. It doesn't take long. Especially, it's our understanding that he was an accomplished marksman."

Dan Kash, the owner of LAX Firing Range in Inglewood, Calif., was dubious that Wong fired that many rounds in the time police say he did.

"He'd have to be super-proficient because he's walking and shooting, and shooting probably moving targets," Kash said. "Either it took a lot longer than what cops are saying, or this guy is more than just the average Joe. Unless the guy is some type of super gunslinger, no, he's not going to be able to do that."

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First, it's not someone on the scene that is saying it was over in 60 seconds, so that's dubious. But in support, the first officers to arrive reported no gunshots so the window can be timed pretty well.

Second, I'm doubtful he had three 30-rd magazines for the 9mm. I expect a report will show he had regular magazines. I also expect it will show the capacity was lower than the claimed 87 rounds.

You could bring them in from a different state, even though it'll be illegal.

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Killing people is illegal, too.

87 rounds from a 9mm = three magazines assuming 30 rd mag. A 45 IIRC uses a 7 rd mag so that would require a mag change for 11 rounds. Four mag changes for two weapons in less than a minute?

As my uncle would say- that statement could be arrested for vagrancy as it has no visible means of support.

MLJdeckard said:

So noble of Chuck Schumer et al to offer the victims posthumous citizenship. (?!)

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Totally makes up for disarming people, promising they don't need to protect themselves, then failing to protect them.

They're really citing Chris Rock for a gun control strategy?
They realize he's a comedian, right?

Is this fodder for politicians to start putting limits on training?

"Wong also was wearing body armor when he went on his spree, and since New York limits body armor purchases to law enforcement, "We're looking into that," Zikuski said."
What?
People are breaking laws?
Pass more!

Keep in mind that this is coming from the same public officials who told the media that the shooter was armed with a "high-powered rifle."

Also keep in mind that this is coming from the same police chief who irresponsibly called the shooter a "coward" for not engaging in a shoot-out with the police.

It is one thing to burn off rounds at the range, but to fire 98 rounds AIMED fire, while hunting for targets and looking for threats to yourself... I agree with the people saying it isn't all that possible.

But in support, the first officers to arrive reported no gunshots so the window can be timed pretty well.

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The first officers arrived over 3 minutes after the shooting started. Also, how confident are the police that they would have heard a gunshot in the building?

In recent years, you never really heard of these shootings. A guy I played football with in highschool was gunned down at a local highschool last year, that didn't get national coverage.

Covering all the "mass murder" is the "in thing" with the media right now, like how it WAS Gitmo, Kaylee Anthony, Obamas birth certificate, Laci and Scott Peterson, Katrina, Virginia Tech, etc

Killings like these have happened every single year in recorded hstory, but due to the modern media, they make it play out like it's a new thing, even though it's on the decline.

I've said before that the media(the old MSM in particular) will not report the news unless they can make something of it.

Woody

Killings like these have happened every single year in recorded hstory, but due to the modern media, they make it play out like it's a new thing, even though it's on the decline.

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More importantly, they make the murderer the center of attention.

That's the way to deter malignant narcissists from this kind of thing, give them unending attention.

The REAL way to prevent this would be to put their faces on Mt. Rushmore, I'll bet...

You guys Obviously haven't seen "The Matrix".....two guns + two hands + ability to fly,disappear,stop/dodge bullet,and slow motion= media's version of what citizens can do with guns.

THey totoally F'd the chris rock on gun controll part.... It too funny to be mis-quoted... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJGcrUk2eE

I was just telling the wife about this very clip 5 days ago...

More importantly, they make the murderer the center of attention.

That's the way to deter malignant narcissists from this kind of thing, give them unending attention.

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I've always thought we should call them "unknown nutjob" No picture, no crying relatives, nothing.

Really cuts down on the "blaze of glory"

It would be ridiculously easyfor pretty much any ol chump to rip off that many rounds in 1.5 minutes, with 3x 30 round mags (and one 1x 10+1 1911 mag). Even with 6x 17 rounders, it would be pretty easy with a little basic practice. All assuming you're just ripping off shots willing nilly in the direction of people, not taking careful aim. You do realize that you can shoot 3-plus rounds per second with a handgun? So the shots themselves in rapid fire would take less than 33 seconds. That leaves 57 seconds for reloading & aiming.

Having said that, I don't believe anything these cops would say - as someone said, first they said it was a rifle. So who knows how long it actually took?

I agree that we should all agree (including all media outlets) to never publish the names of these nutjobs.

Very tragic, all the way around

What it seems to me, given that I do not think that one person could kill that many moving or frightened targets in several interior locations in just one or one and one half minutes is.....

In my opinion, the Chief of Police and his administrators are trying to cover their rear ends for negligence in that their officers did not either respond immediately and/or sat outside in confusion while the shooter was inside murdering people.

I've been shooting handguns for a long, long time. I practiced consistently. Went to GUNSITE when Cooper still owned it. Not only did I compete in IPSC and IDPA (still do in IDPA), I was a firearms instructor with a large LEO Dept., competed in LEO competition shoots, and have a number of trophies to prove it. Also I was second in a class of 45 LEOs completing the FBI's Firearms Instructors School.

I know that I have many times over, the amount of "training" and practice the N.Y. murderer had. I know I could not have done what the Chief of Police claimed the murderer did. I know and have competed with some really talented shooters... and they couldn't do it either.

I believe the murderer had much more time to carry out his evil deed than the cops want the public to know.

Was there just plain mass confusion by the police? Was there a breakdown of command-and-control? Combination of both? Pure negligence? I don't know, but that story posted does not make sense.

I say again, in my opinion, the C. of P. is covering his/their rear ends for negligence and poor performance.

L.W.

98 rounds

13 killed

That sounds like volume of fire, not carefully aimed fire.

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"Spray'nPray" technique. With his adrenaline going and heartrate elevated, he was probably shooting as fast as he could. If he had blocked the exit, then he was trying to get as many as he could, which probably worked against him in reality. He was probably in such a hurry to get all of them, that he wasn't taking aimed shots and shooting as fast as possible. With that, I could see it happening in the 90 second timeframe that they're claiming. Heck, 90 seconds or 180 seconds, other than for analysis sake, what difference does it make?


I'm just curious, if they are here legally but don't have citizenship yet, are they allowed to carry at all....open or otherwise? If not, then it wouldn't have mattered.

Ok, I just tried a lil' test...

"cycled" through 6 magazines with my Beretta, all dry fire. Had Spoon time it: pull trigger 15 times, drop mag down and reseat. No actual ammo burned (so no recoil), and I simply dropped the mag down a bit and then reseated. Took me @ 40 seconds to go through 90 pulls...

Of course, there was no recoil, no actual mag change, and no aiming. And I think maybe I need to work more on my double-action, as that actually hurt a lil' bit...

Doable? Yeah... but you're talking accuracy by volume at that point