Odd occurance today

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Erik M

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Hails from Parts Unknown
A few of you might remember my multi-page thread in Legal about my neighbors complaining about my brothers and I firing weapons on my property. well today another outlandish encounter happened. This story is a legal matter and is gun related, just bear with me.

It was just after 2pm and I was getting ready to go to work. I notice a man driving up and down the one lane road out in front of my house several times on a fourwheeler. I live in the middle of no where and I'm the only person that owns an ATV in my small neighborhood so I start watching this guy from my living room window to see if I know him. Im immediately alarmed to see that he has left his ATV in the driveway of my neighbors home, and then takes out a notepad and paper, walks to her mailbox, copy’s down her address and then walks to her car and leans towards it apparently copying down her license plate. I don’t know why he doesn't go to her door unless he did before I started watching him. It turned out the elderly woman across the road wasn't home when this happened so I filled her in later.

He then walks across the road to my house and starts beating on the house. I say this because he doesn’t knock on the door, I live in a log cabin and it was like he was hitting the door frame or the actual logs with a hammer. I arm myself, and ask him through the door if i can help him. I notice he is OC a large frame revolver. He says that he owns some rental property about a mile up the road and that someone was just shooting at him. He said that the bullets were landing all around him and he could hear them ripping through the trees at the small house he is renovating. He said he counted close to 40 rounds in a near full auto burst. He said he got on his atv and rode to the small grouping of houses in my community as fast as possible to see if he could catch the guilty party 'in the act' of firing at him. I tell him I haven't heard any shots fired, but I will call the police for him. He tells me not to that he is going to speak to my other neighbors first. He asked me if i owned any guns, and I told him I wasn’t answering that. He asked which of my neighbors own firearms, I told him I had no idea. he stared for a few seconds and didn't ask anymore questions and left. The ‘rental’ in question is more than a mile away on the other side of a heavily wooded ridge. I don’t own anything that would shoot that far accurately, I don’t know of anyone that could get the correct trajectory it would take to arc over a mountain and drop down quick enough to hit the target area described even with a capable weapon. The guy must be crazy.

He goes back across the road and gets on his atv, pulls down to my driveway and looks at my mailbox which has nothing written on it. he walks back onto my property towards my car and I decide I’ve had enough and call the sheriffs department and reported the incident. I tell the operator all the things he said and the questions he asked, and explained his behavior. When he went to my neighbors that I have had 'issues' with in the past I’m not sure what he said to them but it spooked them enough to call me and ask what the hell the guy was up to. I told them what happened to me and that the police had been called. My neighbor said he was doing yard work the past couple hours and he heard no gunfire. The guy rode up, basically said the same things then left like a bat out of hell. I saw him leave and I had to go to work at that time.

The sheriff's department called me on my cell phone about 2 hours later when I was at work and told me that they could not find hide nor hair of the guy, not in my neck of the woods or at the 'rental' the guy claimed to be renovating. The deputy said obviously there wasn’t anything they could do about someone copying down a tag number or an address, although he did agree it was highly suspicious. He also agreed that there was no way that someone could have fired a weapon from any area in my community and have them ‘rain down’ in the manner described by the suspect . Said to be sure to report anything else related.

I called law enforcement and reported the incident, this whole situation has me baffled. What are you supposed to say if someone implies that you shot at them? I didn’t ask his name, I really regret that. i don’t know if he would have answered...his demeanor was questionable to say the least.

Do you think i should have called the police sooner? Should I have confronted him? Should I have even answered the door? Does it sound like possible casing for a home invasion or armed intrusion? Couple people at work suggested that.

I’m going to ratchet the security level up a couple notches for a while. Hopefully I never see him again. I will be glad to provide any other details I’ve left out.
 
Documentation and Evidence will be your best friends in case this escalates. Start keeping a written log, and if this guy shows up again call the cops again... but make sure you have means to defend yourself discreetly but readily available along with the camera.
 
I would tell him if he comes back he is not welcome on my property.

If he refuses to leave, even your driveway, it's criminal trespass.

Document with cameras and a call to local law enforcement.
 
There's more to this incident than meets the eye. You might have been a little slow; but, calling the sheriff's department was definitely the right thing to do.

As a general rule for your own personal safety: Never go face-to-face with an angry man who's open carrying a pistol - Especially if there's no thumb break on his holster!

Nothing you describe is rational behavior. I don't think you've heard the last of this; and, you might want to be extra careful whenever you come and go about your property. If you ever see this guy again, don't engage him; don't allow him to engage you; and don't wait to call the sheriff. Good luck!
 
This guy certainly made himself highly visible. Not a good strategy if planning soemthing clandestine.
 
I agree, for some strange reason, he was fishing for info.

In your shooting, have you ever "bump-fired" any of your semi-auto's?
You don't need to answer, just think about that question. The reason being that sometimes "bump-firing" (holding an index finger still and let the gun recoil back-and-forth at hip level, essentially letting the gun shoot very rapidly) -- to someone not familiar with guns, would think it was a full-auto. I have seen it done before (back in the 80's).

Scenario #1
The guy is "casing" the neighborhood to find out just who might own some guns -- especially if they ever heard rapid-fire coming from the approximate location of your neighborhood, they may think there could be a full-auto weapon. I would think that a full-auto would be something that certain people would like to steal, i.e., someone who is into drug-trafficking or into any other illegal activity.

Scenario #2 (probably unlikely, however I will throw it out for what it's worth)
The guy is law enforcement, and if he has ever heard rapid fire or if rapid-fire has ever been reported coming from your place, is trying to establish just where this is coming from. If there HAS BEEN rapid-fire, then he may think there is a machine gun somewhere. Of course, law enforcement would easily know if anyone has a machine gun license OR NOT!

Scenario #3
Someone shot a shotgun in the vicinity of his place and he heard about forty pellets landing in the trees. I know this can happen, as about ten years ago, I shot at a crow almost directly overhead with my 12 gauge. Last year, one of my "anti-gun" neighbors commented that whenever they hear gunfire, they get scared. He said "one day someone was shooting and I could hear all the bullets landing in the trees behind my house!" Whether or not that was the time I shot at the crow, I don't know. That was one shot, not lots of shots, however, someone not at all familiar with guns might wrongly think that there was a "burst" of gunfire in order to have numerous "bullets" landing in the trees (in which case were actually numerous pellets landing in the trees).
 
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Is OC legal in Kentucky? Just wondering. I think you handled the situation correctly. I would drive by the rental property sometime and if someone is outside ask them who owns the property. If nothing else, you would know the name of the owner. Just my opinion.

The Dove
 
Is OC legal in Kentucky? Just wondering. I think you handled the situation correctly. I would drive by the rental property sometime and if someone is outside ask them who owns the property. If nothing else, you would know the name of the owner. Just my opinion.

The Dove
Why do that? Just look up the property record online.
 
If someone asks you if you own any guns and respond by saying "None of your business", that is usually interpreted as "Yes. I own several". "No" is usually the best answer.

The guy was definately up to something odd. It may have been just what he said or it may have been something else. If he comes back, call LEO and don't engage him. Good luck.
 
'You mean, like, this old 12 gauge I've got pointed at the front door?' :D







(As long as you're not talking to law enforcement, Stirling XD is correct!) ;)
 
To me, sounds like either a very paranoid neighbor or a very stupid burglar to be. Either way, you did the right thing by alerting law enforcement. Like someone said, keep a camera handy and document any further contact with this individual and notify police of any further developments. Ghostwalker- Why would the OP be under any obligation to tell any LEO if he owned firearms or not? Thats a fishing expedition.
 
Even if he Identified himself as a LEO i would ask for a warrant before I would supply any information about things like firearms. My property is marked no trespassing to a comical level.

Something my partner at work said was if someone was shooting at you for apparrently no reason, would you storm towards them on an ATV, with your gun in hand, to question thier motives? All the while telling the people you meet that you dont want to involve law enforcement.

This guy was not law enforcement, at least not county. I have good communication with the Sheriff and I know the handfull of deputies that patrol my end of the county, even went to highschool with two of them. I just cant see the State Patrol conductiong any activities like this.

Ive kept a written record of everything that happened along with what my neighbors heard/saw. I wrote down the conversation with the police. I asked my neighbors to be alert with thier digital cameras if this guy comes back.
 
Seems like you got everything taken care of to the best of your ability. I cant think of anything you have overlooked (other than installing surveliance equipment, which if your like me, would be cost prohibitive). Good luck and be careful!:)
 
Ghostwalker- Why would the OP be under any obligation to tell any LEO if he owned firearms or not? Thats a fishing expedition.

PA Freedom, There's no doubt about where you live. Your opinion appears to be indicative of the popular gun mentality that is presently being parroted all over northeastern PA. Still, your question is worthy of a reply.

First, I doubt that you're a lawyer; second, I doubt that you're a police officer. Third, if law enforcement asks you a direct question you've got one of two choices: Either say; 'No comment.' or else answer truthfully.

Of course this is only my opinion. (I've been cautioned to say that!) :p I could be wrong; I've only lived in northeastern Pennsy for the past 12 years. I'm still trying hard to understand curious social phenomena like: 'in-your-face' open carry, and Pennsy gun forum lawyers who appear to be extraordinarily aggressive, exceedingly biased, and peculiarly skilled in the most amazing (or, perhaps, sociopathic) personal interpretations of legal minutia pertinent to the ownership and use of firearms in Pennsylvania.

(How am I doing?) :D

You know I get so sick and tired of, 'the Pennsylvania gun mentality' that I will no longer post on any PA firearms forum. I don't know? Everybody likes to get along with their neighbors - Especially when we're all gunmen who share the same technical passions. Maybe all I need to do is drink the local water for awhile longer; and, then, I'll begin to understand.









NOTE-TO-SELF: Increase daily water consumption to, at least, 3 full glasses and practice telling any local officer who might ask a firearms related question; 'You're fishing and that's none of your business'.

(How's that? So, am I learning - or what!) :)
 
If he shows up, go to his ATV and copy down the tags, say to the guy, why should I be talking to some stranger who is barging into my property asking crazy questions, You want to talk, we lets get acquainted, forward the info to the cops, and see if they will pull the registered owner's name from the DMV database, also might want to call your friend the sheriffs deputy.

If the guy is legit he shouldn't have any problem verifying who he is and backing up his story.

Ghost Walker, any LE feel free to correct me, but, You only have to answer the questions of IDENTIFIED and VERIFIED law enforcement, in otherwords, if this guy is a cop and has not identified himself as a cop, you could tell him to fly over the moon and the sun is purple for all the law cares, but if he flashed a badge,and dispatch said yes that is an officer you are taliking to, then you either answer truthfully or not at all.
 
I think you are right to be very suspicious. At least you weren't the only one targeted. If I had to guess I would say he is eccentric, possibly mentally ill, and displaying erratic and illogical behavior based on some sort of fantasy. Like others have said it does not seem like a legitimate strategy for the usual suspects.
 
'No trespassing' signs.
'No soliciting' signs.

I ask myself, if someone were lazy and stupid and wanted to steal guns, how would they do it? Either break into cars and look, or break into homes and look. Which ones? - Look on the internet, look for stickers, look for hunters. Maybe follow people home from gun stores or ranges. What to do if one is in a hurry to steal a gun? - Ask around. "Hey mister, any chance you own guns? Great, do you have a home security system? What breed of dog? What times of day is your house unoccupied? How about your neighbors, any of them hiding valuables under their beds?"
 
Ghostwalker, you are correct about me not being a LEO or attorney. However, one does not have to be either to know what your rights are. And BTW, the "curious social phenomena" in PA I believe you are describing are law abiding citizens excercising thier rights.
 
Scenario #1
The guy is "casing" the neighborhood to find out just who might own some guns -- especially if they ever heard rapid-fire coming from the approximate location of your neighborhood, they may think there could be a full-auto weapon. I would think that a full-auto would be something that certain people would like to steal, i.e., someone who is into drug-trafficking or into any other illegal activity.

The most likely explanation is almost always the correct one, and this is the ONLY one that makes sense of this. He is casing for guns, as well as who is home & when. If I were you, I would invest in a few cheap game cams and see if this guy is coming around when you are NOT at home.
 
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