Texas' only requirement for hunting ammunition is that it be centerfire, so the "best of your knowledge" isn't very good. I imagine there are other states that allow the 5.7 for hunting as well. Not saying I'd hunt deer with a 5.7, but I could if I wanted to.
Why the 5.7?
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Texas' only requirement for hunting ammunition is that it be centerfire, so the "best of your knowledge" isn't very good. I imagine there are other states that allow the 5.7 for hunting as well. Not saying I'd hunt deer with a 5.7, but I could if I wanted to.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
First, as mentioned, hunting with the 5.7 is perfectly legal in Texas.
And, by the way, there are lots of animals that are hunted for food that are easily dispatched with something like the 5.7 so it's use for hunting isn't necessarily wacky.
Rabbits for one. 5.7 is very effective on rabbit. .30-06 might be a bit of overkill for a nice rabbit stew
Be sure to cook the meat thoroughly by the way......
As for "medium game" have you seen some of the scrawny West Texas deer we have? Not much to the little things. I wouldn't do it personally, but it's certainly not against the law.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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The MP7 fires 4.6 x 30.
The P90 does have a place and is used for those purposes, I'm not to sure if the MP7 is used though, I would think that maybe the secret service carries them.
The P90 does have a place and is used for those purposes, I'm not to sure if the MP7 is used though, I would think that maybe the secret service carries them.
spartanpride
Member
Well, so if I'm understanding right, the only good thing about the 5.7 is it's small so you can pack more in a mag, it has little to none recoil, and it can penetrate a lot of body armor. Like some of the other folks said, a 7.62x25 round is 85gr, and travels at about 1700 fps; the 5.7 is 40gr and traveling 2000 fps.
So, the 5.7 is just a little bit faster than the 7.62 Tok, but it's very light, seems more suited for varmint hunting.
The 7.62 Tok goes slightly slower than the 5.7, but is heavier so it has more momentum, which equals more "knock down power"
The 7.62 Tok recoils a bit more than the 5.7, but it's not uncontrollable, and I'm sure that if, God forbid, you did have to shoot somebody you probably would not even notice recoil at all. Plus with practice you can learn to get faster follow up shots regardless of recoil.
The armor piercing factor- The 5.7 travels fast, and is small, so of common sense you know smaller area, greater force (velocity) = more pressure (penetration).
But if I've read somewhat correct info among the interweb, it says that one of the main reasons the 7.62 Tok was invented by the Russians was to penetrate the very thick winter clothing of German forces in WWII. And if you do the math, it sure will penetrate body armor, probably not quite as much as the 5.7, but pretty darn close.
So, they seem equal, only one is best used on anti-personel, and the other seems more fitted for kevlar toting rabbits!
So, the 5.7 is just a little bit faster than the 7.62 Tok, but it's very light, seems more suited for varmint hunting.
The 7.62 Tok goes slightly slower than the 5.7, but is heavier so it has more momentum, which equals more "knock down power"
The 7.62 Tok recoils a bit more than the 5.7, but it's not uncontrollable, and I'm sure that if, God forbid, you did have to shoot somebody you probably would not even notice recoil at all. Plus with practice you can learn to get faster follow up shots regardless of recoil.
The armor piercing factor- The 5.7 travels fast, and is small, so of common sense you know smaller area, greater force (velocity) = more pressure (penetration).
But if I've read somewhat correct info among the interweb, it says that one of the main reasons the 7.62 Tok was invented by the Russians was to penetrate the very thick winter clothing of German forces in WWII. And if you do the math, it sure will penetrate body armor, probably not quite as much as the 5.7, but pretty darn close.
So, they seem equal, only one is best used on anti-personel, and the other seems more fitted for kevlar toting rabbits!
BlisteringSilence
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.30 cal and up might make sense for moose, bison, elk, etc.
I've yet to see a deer that wouldn't be stopped in his tracks by a well placed .243 or .270.....
FIVETWOSEVEN
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any centerfire is fine is just asking for people to use bad judgment. .25 ACP out of a rifle?
TexasRifleman
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If people are going to do dumb things, laws won't stop them
If someone is dumb enough to consider using .25ACP in a rifle they are probably too dumb to read the wildlife laws LOL
NMGonzo
Member
Because ...
Most threads regarding the 5.7 are started by those who dislike the round. I can think of none started outside of the FN forums about how great the round is. It seems the "haters" love to attack the round, I would think those who do not like it would just leave it alone and spend their time on the round they do "approve" of. But for some reason they love to attack it and then call anybody who disagree a 5.7 fanboy...........
Count me a 5.7 fanboy I guess......
If you do not like it then move on and leave it alone already
Count me a 5.7 fanboy I guess......
If you do not like it then move on and leave it alone already
spartanpride
Member
OK, i admit, it's a love/hate relationship! Sure I could get a 7.62 Tok, but you had to beat it out of me, 5.7 is pretty cool. Maybe I'll just think of it as a .223 short!
Full Metal Jacket
member
the 5.7 gained fame because it has almost no recoil, offers very high capacity, and LE agencies like the secret service use the armor piercing 5.7 ammo.
it doesn't have much for stopping power if you miss vital organs though.
it doesn't have much for stopping power if you miss vital organs though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f76wGxg3fzw
No recoil to speak of and ballistics approaching a 9mm. Try the one handed shooting with a 9mm Uzi or MP5.
Like ALL calibers it has it advantages and disadvantages. It has been successful because it's advantages outweigh it's disadvantages.
No recoil to speak of and ballistics approaching a 9mm. Try the one handed shooting with a 9mm Uzi or MP5.
Like ALL calibers it has it advantages and disadvantages. It has been successful because it's advantages outweigh it's disadvantages.
Shawn Dodson
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In what measure?
FIVETWOSEVEN
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what i'm thinking is someone thinking that since the law says they can that they will.
Can't you get AP rounds if they are made in the country and not prohibited otherwise?
The original AP rounds were made in Italy and not even stocked in the US. If a LE agency wanted them they placed an order with their local FN dealer and the order was sent to Italy. The order was shipped from Italy directly to the LE agency. I'm not sure but I think it still works this way.
I got to shoot the P90, the 5.7 pistol, and other FN guns when they were trying to break in the LE market. I was very impressed with the controllability of the P90 (being used to the MP5 and other sub guns).
I think the cartridge fills a niche but a very small one. I'm not overly impressed with it.
The original AP rounds were made in Italy and not even stocked in the US. If a LE agency wanted them they placed an order with their local FN dealer and the order was sent to Italy. The order was shipped from Italy directly to the LE agency. I'm not sure but I think it still works this way.
I got to shoot the P90, the 5.7 pistol, and other FN guns when they were trying to break in the LE market. I was very impressed with the controllability of the P90 (being used to the MP5 and other sub guns).
I think the cartridge fills a niche but a very small one. I'm not overly impressed with it.
1987rx7guy
Member
In energy I think its around 80% of 9mm ft/lbs which isn't bad in a handgun that has about 50% more capacity than 9mm and a sub gun that has nearly double compared to others.
Not a 5.7 fanboy but its a cool little round.
Shawn Dodson
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Energy is important how?
"Energy is important how?"
How would you like to measure the ballistics of a given caliber? Ft lbs of energy has been used a LONG time by MANY people in such a role. If you care to ignore that then feel free to make up you own system. Maybe you can find one that fits your desired results.
How would you like to measure the ballistics of a given caliber? Ft lbs of energy has been used a LONG time by MANY people in such a role. If you care to ignore that then feel free to make up you own system.
Maybe you can find one that fits your desired results.Uncle Mike
Member
A nice bolt gun in the 5.7 caliber would make for a superb short to mid range vermin buster.
Make a heck of a magnum squirrel rifle too. lol
Make a heck of a magnum squirrel rifle too. lol
MachIVshooter
Member
That's out of a 10" barrel on the 5.7. It's a bit under 300 from the Five-seveN pistol
Never researched each state. That seems very foolish to me. The minimums set by any DOW are to ensure clean kills, because many "hunters" have a very poor understanding off ballistics. Colorado, for example, where big game is concerned (deer and antelpe included) is .24 caliber minimum with 1,000 FPE at 100 yards for rifle, 550 FPE at 50 yards for handgun. So a very hot loaded .357 or 10mm is minimum for pistols.
Western states generally have very high requirements for hunting, partly because shots can be longer (especially on the high plains) and the animals are larger. There are no elk (cept a few imports) in the East, deer are whitetails that are usually under 200 lbs (that's more like antelope sized). Shots are commonly short, so the ability for a round to hold energy out to 200 yards isn't so important. When thinking of Eastern hunting requirements consider what you'd want to shoot a pronghorn at 50 yards. That's why the standards are very different.
Also because it's more densely populated, there are more restrictions designed to prevent damage from missses (for example Indiana doesn't allow rifles when hunting deer).
There are bear, but those usually have separate requirements, specific to hunting bear.
Here's a picture of one of the deer areas in Northern Virginia. Keep in mind that the entire area is only about 2 miles wide and surrounded by housing.
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1987rx7guy
Member
I don't know if the SS190 is still sold/available to consumers but it imparts 313 ft/lbs of energy fired out of the pistol barrel from what I have read.
Hornady on the other hand has V-Max rounds that carry a muzzle velocity of 2,034 fps carrying a 40 grain projectile with a muzzle energy of 367 ft/lbs
I found some commonly available Remmington "Golden Saber" ammo with data listed
These are 'self defence/LEO' marketed rounds Brass Jacketed Hollow Points so take it for what its worth.
I believe that my assesment that the 5.7 round is about 80% of the energy of a 9mm round but with higher capacity in pistol and sub-gun is the 'advantage' most people see in the cartridge.
I personally only own .40 s&w semi-autos so i'm sure a 9mm would be more controllable for me. But if the 5.7 is better than that its a plus imho. Staying on target for followup shots would be important to me specially knowing how many people have been shot with 9mm(and 5.7 for that matter) and not 'gone down.'
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