New XD vs Used 226

PS- and at the risk of offending...I dunno what the guy mentioning a fine 1911 trigger and the XD trigger in the same breath is talking about!

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I didn't say it was a valid comparison out of the box.

I said with a "stellar trigger job," which means, having a gunsmith who knows what he's doing with XD's give it a work over. Rich Dettlehouser at www.canyoncreekcustom.com does the best. I have 3 he's done and have seen several others. Verrrry nice trigger.

M&P's share this, also, but again, it requires a trigger job.

And yes, they rival some of the best 1911 triggers out there.

I have shot both, and own an XD45. That being said, They are both good quality 9mms, but the Sig is a little overpriced, then again all Sigs are. You can't really go wrong either way. Rent them both and see which one you prefer.

I would highly recommend you shoot both if you can before you buy one - especially rapid fire and see which gives you better shot groups.

Shooting is believing and shot groups don't lie.

Safety likes/dislikes are one thing, but to denegrate 'em just 'cuz you don't "like" 'em is a bit over the top.

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Geez, you should've seen the first draft of my post

I'm not sure my post was over the top. Now, 'it's freakin' ugly because of that stupid retard grip safety' would have been over the top.

No worries.

Yeah, people who know what they are doing can get the XD trigger surprisingly good. The only problem is after shipping it costs almost 1/2 as much as the gun itself to do. I haven't felt an M&P trigger that's been done over but I hear they can get fairly decent also. I think 1911s can have the best triggers around but I was surprised to see how good the XD came out because out of the box they aren't so hot.

the XD and the Sig share the similar designs.. go back to the shop, and pull both apart.. the XD is a modified P220 design..

and the grip safety is there because the XD is single action..


both pistols are good pistols.. although the XD is new and has a warranty, and is less expensive.. the Sig has all it's benefits too.. ask them to figure out what is wrong with the grips.. i.e. have them remove/reinstall them to see if the grips fit correctly..

really it would come down to personal preference.. but i'd lean toward the XD because it is new..

XD's appeal to people that are not very serious about training and learning how to be truly competent with a handgun for self defense or practical shooting.

They appeal to people that are inexperienced that don't seek higher levels of training. For those people, they work fine.

XD's have a huge liability in their grip safety. You cannot manipulate the slide without pressing down on the grip safety. No big deal eh? What happens when your shot/wounded in the hands and you have to clear a malfunction? You will have a heck of time clearing it since you have to depress a button to unlock the slide. That safety serves no real purpose for a handgun that is going to be used in a serious (read not a range toy) and is a huge liability.

The Sig is entirely different animal. Its more accurate, better made, and highly customizable with different trigger configurations, DAK, DAO, TDA, the new SRT (short reset trigger) and just normal trigger jobs done by the likes of bill sprinfield, Arizona Response Systems, etc.

Sigs are for people that are serious about handguns and using them for self defense, getting good practical training/instruction, competition, etc.

XD's are $200 Croatian made handguns that have the Springfield Armory name stamped on them with a bunch of hype attached to them giving them a $300+ markup.

Sigs (P series) are very reliable, proven and customizable to meet individual needs/wants. The mil and LEO use them; how many SWAT teams, LEO agencies, MP's, or SEAL's use XD's?

I have an XD, it sees the range a few times a year just because its fun to shoot. I shoot my German made P226 every week. I've put thousands of rounds through it.

I can buy spare parts for it and do all my own repairs/upgrades/preventative maintenance on my P226...Can't do that with an XD. Try calling Springfield and ordering spare parts for it...hint, you really can't.

Wow...just...wow!

Safety likes/dislikes are one thing, but to denegrate 'em just 'cuz you don't "like" 'em is a bit over the top.

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Stu said:

Geez, you should've seen the first draft of my post

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XD's appeal to people that are not very serious about training and learning how to be truly competent with a handgun for self defense or practical shooting. They appeal to people that are inexperienced that don't seek higher levels of training.

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Ya know Stu, you're right...suddenly your post is not looking so "over the top"!

basicblur,

My self-editing has improved dramatically over the years while at the same time I've gotten more cranky and particular.

Go figure!

I've played with SIGs over the years. They really were a good gun, for their day. When DA/SA triggers ruled the range for those grand old days of the 70-80s, SIG really hit their stride. Lots of folks still trying to transition from double-action revolvers made that appealing. The rumbles on the horizon that were harbingers of polymer frames and striker-fired trigger designs really hadn't made many waves. The "go-fast" gun games and higher proficiency "tactical" training were still in training wheels, and mostly still tied to the 1911 platform. Professional gun carriers were looking for more firepower in a platform that wasn't so different from their trusty wheel guns. The SIGs really fit in in that scene and gave the S&W 2nd and 3rd generation autoloaders a run for their money.

Post the turn of the century, the xD is a good gun for its day as well. It makes up (the smallest) part of the "trifecta" of the big three striker-fired polymer-framed service sidearms. Light, fast, and an easy-to-learn consistant trigger pull without the safeties of the SA guns (for what little that's worth) or the de-cocker and "Jeckyl and Hyde" trigger pull of the DA/SAs (which is worth a lot). Improvements in manufacturing technology have made this type of pistol just as accurate as any run-of-the mill SIG, but the trigger and ergonomics give it the real edge.

It is always interesting to me to see what the real "serious" shooters are running. But what constitues a "serious" shooter is quite debatable. Knowing quite a few "serious" firearms users (cops, military, competition) I generally look to the competition shooters to figure out what really WORKS. Those guys will do anything for an advantage in accuracy, speed, or reliability, so following their trends is informative. The 1911 is still popular among a certain set, but a lot of the most competitive shooters I've talked to, watched, and shot with have moved to a striker-fired polymer framed gun of some sort. Picking one or the other (Glock, M&P, xD) becomes a question of personal preference about the small nits that separate those designs.

Most of the serious shooters do seem to own SIGs, though, and they do hold a place of honor -- on a shelf in the safe. Time marches on...

I have an old used E.German 226 and love it. Groups great with just about any ammo. I've not shot a XD so I can't knock them. But I do have Glocks.. and the Sig feels like more of a "gun" to me. I carry a Glock for CCW due to great specs for the job.. but the sig always goes to the range with me. Built like tanks.

MHBushmaster: Can you recommend a pistol for a highly trained operator that would be in charge of defending one of America's largest shopping centers by any chance? Thank you. Over.

That's some funny stuff right there!

As a lifelong 1911 shooter, a grip safety bothers me not

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Of course, you realize (as it has been explained to me many times)....
1. Guns don't need no stinkin' grip safety-if they did, Gaston would have put one on there!
2. Being a 1911 shooter, you probably also don't realize John Moses Browning was incorrect in thinking guns should have grip angles that match most human hands-if they did, Gaston would have designed it that way!
3.
Well, you get the idea!?

Atomd:
Larry Vickers called the XD a "range toy" and has said the following:

"(The XD) its a Bubba gun. Bought cheap by Bubba to go to the junkyard and shoot rats."

Google Larry Vickers.

Benchmarking what people who use guns for a living with what is available to own is a pretty darn smart thing to do.

Know many professionals that use Fobus or Uncle Mikes holsters?
Is there a reason why professionals use certain things: yes.

Most of the people that own a handgun don't know how to properly use one to defends their life.

How many train with a bit of stress added to the mix of using a timer and having to compete against others?

I shoot with a guy that is a product tester for Lazermax. He is literally paid to shoot ammunition through handguns testing their new lazers for endurance testing.

In my time shooting with him over the years, I've watched him break XD's in the following ways: The slide has broken free of the frame and gone down range 3x, the trigger bars have broken inside the handgun not allowing the trigger to engage the sear, the striker system failed to cock after repeated attempts (most common failure), a frame developed a crack above the trigger guard (1x) and the triggers develop a habit of not properly resetting after about 20k rounds (2nd most common problem). Also the melonite finish is terrible and easily rusts compared to tennifer or other finishes found on other contemporary semi-autos.

These failures were seen in multiple copies of XD's in different calibers and designs (Subcompact, Service, Tactical).

Since the guns are made in Croatia and SA just stamps their logo on their and since they believe that everyone but them is to stupid to know how to fix their handguns, they do not sell the parts you need to fix your handgun in the event that it fails/breaks/wears out parts.

There is a reason why Law Enforcement and Dept of Defense have not pounced on the XD(m) series of handguns...its not because of the price point (hint: LEO agencies are offered XD's cheaper than Glocks). Its because they are poorly designed, poorly made.

The grip safety on an XD is different than a 1911 grip safety...on a 1911 series, you can always open the slide without disengaging the grip safety, not possible on the XD. This is a problem when doing 1 handed malfunction drills. Serious handgun shooters understand this. Average joe's that buy guns on their looks or price points don't factor something like that into their purchase or training/practice sessions.

Larry Vickers called the XD a "range toy" and has said the following:

"(The XD) its a Bubba gun. Bought cheap by Bubba to go to the junkyard and shoot rats."

Google Larry Vickers.

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Actually, I don't have to Google Larry Vickers -- I trained with him earlier this year. With an xD, as it happens. He says some pretty funny things some times. Some of them true!

Most of the people that own a handgun don't know how to properly use one to defends their life.

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That is true. Doesn't change anything at all about the basic quality or relative merits of different firearm designs. And THR is not the place to go looking for those folks who "don't know how to properly use one." LOL!

How many train with a bit of stress added to the mix of using a timer and having to compete against others?

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Oh, I don't know. Let's say a few of us. Those folks who succeed or fail in competition, with a timer, seem to be abandoning the DA/SA designs in droves. Or I should say, HAVE already abandoned them.

But the SIGs can work well in competition. I do know three or four very good shooters who do still prefer SIGs. But, then again, I know several hundred competitive shooters as friends so take that for what its worth.

Average joe's that buy guns on their looks or price points don't factor something like that into their purchase or training/practice sessions.

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And sometimes "average joes" make these things out to be a much bigger deal than they really are.

And sometimes very accomplished shooters do considerer all of the various aspects of what makes a particular gun run make their decisions in ways that you would not. Some folks choose Glocks. Some choose the M&P or the xD. Some do choose SIGs. If you're putting the time into training you can make any run. And they'll all be reliable enough for all practical uses.

I would go with the XD. I don't own one but I've shot my buddy's XDm .40 and it was a very nice pistol. Good accuracy and ergonomics... but i shoot my glock better... sorry, had to say it! haha

MHBushmaster: I don't need to google Vickers, I know who he is. I know that SA imported the HS2000 and rebadged it. I've owned XDs and know a little bit about them. They are not a "cheap" gun or a "bubba" gun. You could argue that their design is not as good as others...sure. I'll buy that. You could even argue that some of their parts are not as good quality as some other companies...I'd even buy that too. There's always something better out there. If they broke like you said on that regular of a basis, they would be having a heck of a lot more reports of it happening and browsing through the thousands and thousands of posts on xdtalk and other sites, I just don't see a lot of that stuff happening nor have I hear it in person from any gunshop or any gunsmith I've ever talked to.

I would guess the XD isn't adopted by most law enforcement because it's classified by the BATF as a single action pistol whereas Glock and M&P are considered DAO. Just a guess there. There might be other reasons too but they are accurate and reliable enough for duty. It's ok if you don't like them but calling them trash is just plain silly and makes your argument look really ridiculous and makes you look way overly biased. Lighten up a bit on the criticism. I probably wouldn't buy another one (I like them well enough but there are other choices out there...but who knows I might) but I'm not going to bash a pistol that doesn't deserve it. They are pretty decent pistols. I know because I've owned them and fired tens of thousands of rounds through them. I don't need Larry Vickers or some guy who works for Lasermax or something to tell me what I like and what I know. If Mas Ayoob was suddenly to come out tomorrow and say that suddenly he realized that Glocks are absolute crap, would that make them crap?

Oh, and I totally agree with you on the parts issue. SA has a great warranty but they should definitely make parts more available. Seems like they might be starting to get the picture though.

Say What?

XD's appeal to people that are not very serious about training and learning how to be truly competent with a handgun for self defense or practical shooting.

They appeal to people that are inexperienced that don't seek higher levels of training. For those people, they work fine.

XD's have a huge liability in their grip safety. You cannot manipulate the slide without pressing down on the grip safety. No big deal eh? What happens when your shot/wounded in the hands and you have to clear a malfunction? You will have a heck of time clearing it since you have to depress a button to unlock the slide. That safety serves no real purpose for a handgun that is going to be used in a serious (read not a range toy) and is a huge liability.

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On what do you base that opinion? Not serious about training and learning? You bash a whole segment of society because they don't agree with your choice of handgun? Puhleaze!

As far as the second comment goes, I would say if you are so injured you can't work the slide on an XD, it doesn't matter what gun you are carrying! Besides, Out of the 4 XD's I've owned, I have never had an issue with malfunctions so you point is moot!

Range toy? I carry my XD on a regular basis, as do many thousands of other people, and I do so with confidence. You don't like XDs then fine, don't buy one! But don't try to discredit a gun that I would put up against those that cost hundreds of dollars more, including the Sig line!

I shoot an XDm .40 in USPSA Open. Love it. It's a way better gun than I am a shooter, and I still beat people shooting 2011 Open Guns.

But then again, I'm not serious about training.

OMG the mall ninja army doesn't carry XDs so they must be crap. Not a Real gun at all.

Get off your high horse, put the oversized grip of the SIG down, and walk away before I report you to your leader Gecko45.

Not a hard choice for me, new XD.

I have an 4" Stock Service XD .40 with over 12,000 rounds through it, its only about 6 months old, I run the gun hard, and am not always the best at cleaning it; I could do a lot better.... Its my everyday carry gun. I have never had any issues with parts breaking, FTF, and only 1 FTE (when someone else was shooting it when the FTE happened)..... I shoot IDPA, USPSA, IPSA, and Steel Challenge with it and actually do quite well! I have never had the previously mentioned problems with it... like I said, only one FTE since I've owned it..... It's very easy to do a complete tear down and reassembly.... and I had no problem getting parts from Springfield for the parts that have been known to go wrong with it..... I have the extra parts in my comp/range bag for a Just in case problem, but haven't needed them so far... As for the one handed issue of the grip safety in regards to Clearing & racking slide, its no problem what so ever.... No different than a 1911 style pistol..... you have to grip the gun to do it so the grip safety is depressed anyway..... again I have never had an issue with one handed "problem recovery" with either strong hand or weak hand.....

My experience with the XD has been outstanding and haven't met anyone that owns one to tell me different..... all the negatives I hear are from people that "knows a guy", "has a friend", or "heard from my gun shop", etc..... NOBODY i have met [that owns an XD or XDM] have anythign bad to say about the firearm!

I've noticed the XD, Glock, 1911, Sig, etc seems to be a Ford, Chevy, Mopar argument....

I can't say the same thing about any other gun I've owned.... It always seems that around 7000 to 8000 rounds fired, something seems to go wrong wheter its a worn or broken spring, revolver out of timing, etc.... there has always been something

Buy the sig

The xd is like the ugly girl at the dance, yes she can dance and she may be able to sing. but she is still ugly

i know you didn't list this as one of your preferred choices, but i have owned an XD (horrible experience), and my buddy is a certified SIG armorer (not made like they used to be).

i would drop $500 on a glock or m&p.

gordy said:

The xd is like the ugly girl at the dance, yes she can dance and she may be able to sing. but she is still ugly

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yeah, she may be ugly, but it only matters how she performs when the lights go out and things get hot & heavy!