how did the myth of the .45 acp come about?

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You could do this, too if you had a pair of magic 1911s like Bruce Willis.

The opening scene, I count at least 38 shots from the two 1911s without reloading. Second scene where he blows away 7 guys, I count at least 27 shots without reloads from the two guns. In the last scene, there's a sequence beginning with a guy with a shotgun where Willis shoots at least 30 rounds (probably more like 40), again without reloading. It makes the final scene in the video anti-climatic where he only shoots 11 rounds into a guy hiding in a cabinet or closet.
 
We use the .45acp for one thing, and one thing only... killin' Nazis.

Decades later we have concluded, it pretty much kills everyone. :cool:
 
I love the 45 but I bounced 4 rounds off a spike bulls head (elk had a broken shoulder from a 400 yd cross canyon shot with 7 mag) . After each shot the elk shook his head and looked at me. I embarasingly looked around even though no one was within miles of me. I finally put one in his ear and ended the torture. It was factory 230 ball ammo and I was 20 ft away. The rounds were bouncing of the bulls skull. I am pretty sure a 22lr would have worked better. Depends on shot placement and how hard your head is I guess.
 
I have shot a few varmits and critters with 9mm and .45 ball. I have never noticed any difference in killing power. As a matter of fact a .38 wadcutter puts them down quicker than all the above as does a .22 magnum from rifle or handgun (6.5" barrel).
 
The 45 Automatic Colt Pistol cartidge was designed to replicate the ballistics of the 45 Colt, which during it's time was the most powerful handgun round. Call it luck or design genius, the 45 Colt even with plain lead bullets was and still is a superb man stopper. I prefer the 45 Colt over a 357 as a defensive cartridge, given equal platforms.

So the 45 acp was designed to make a pistol round out of a revolver round. And how'd they test and come about selecting this round?

By killing steer. Real life, real death, real world testing.

Then the gun was put into service where it shined. One account of the 45 in combat stated something to the effect that:

'when Americans were shot with the 9mm, they often times survived and killed the enemy ... When the enemy was shot with the 45, they just stopped fighting and died'.

There's no myth about the 45... There are embellishments.

There's a reason that despite 100+ years, the 45 in either casing are the best manstopping handgun rounds going with the right bullets.

There's just the right combination of power, velocity, caliber, penetration, etc. that even the 44mag, 10mm and other high speed rounds can't match when used against people.
 
Added: I would choose (and have chosen) the old, slow, 45acp over any other handgun round for defense against people. For it's designed purpose, it can't be beat. Plain and simple.
 
Those that used a .45 to protect themselves and it saved their lives are going to think very highly of it. Considering how many years it was our standard handgun caliber through two world wars and countless other brushfire wars it did save alot of peoples lives. Just due to the sheer number of people using it. Those who used it and were not saved by it obviously don't get to voice their opinion. They are underground. Same with the 9mm. In Europe and other parts of the world the 9mm is highly regarded. Again for the same reasons the .45 are. Add that and movieland b.s. and you have alot of people thinking it is "the hammer of Thor".
It's a handgun round. No handgun round is really good at putting people down compared to a shotgun or centerfire rifle. And those weapons although much better still fail to stop a determined opponent sometime. They won't knock a man down or take him off his feet either. They will with good shot placement make a man fall down from being hit alot more effectively than a handgun. But in the end no matter what actual evidence you bring forward you are still not going to convince a "true believer".
Medical people who actually work/have worked to save people that have been shot (such as Dr. Fackler) will tell you they don't know what size handgun round the person is hit by until the bullet is removed. I guess it's more fun to watch a guy hit in a movies fly back 15 feet after being hit by the .45. People like a good story. The funny thing is they say that alot our folks fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan want a .45. Strange thing is most of them have never shot one since 9mm has been our standard sidearm for so long. So alot of them think it to be a real dragon slayer.
Look the .45 is as good as any of the service pistol rounds. In real life it's just not any better than the other service caliber rounds. I own and shoot .45's. I like them. I've gotten to where I would just rather have a gun that holds more rounds and is easier to shoot well do to less recoil and muzzle blast. And to put someone down with a handgun you have to hit them in vital places and repeat as necessary.
I laugh when I hear people say a 9mm just puts a hole in you. Well yes but that's all any handgun round does. What's important is what is it making a hole in? The heart? Brain? Lungs? Leg? Those holes are hopefully going through vital stuff.
 
Myths are more fun to tell than the straight truth. Then the myth replaces the truth...and all you ever hear is ".45 will blow a man back 20 feet", "pump shotguns will always scare away anybody with the sound of the action being worked, doesn't even have to be loaded" and "such and such can't malfunction or break"...
 
All myths/lies have to have a bit of truth in them somewhere. It's not possible to have a 100% lie. But based on physics, if a bullet passes through a body, there will be a certain amount of energy that is not absorbed into the body, but instead will be wasted after penetrating and exiting the body.

I think it is a myth that a low-energy service caliber has enough energy to cause much damage due to energy transfer. :scrutiny:

The 45acp, is both a very large/heavy (Mass) bullet; and it also travels quite slow. As such, it has a much less chance of exiting the subject being shot.

It depends on the medium--faster bullets tend to penetrate most hard media more if they can hold together, while slower, heavier bullets tend to penetrate soft, wet media (such as flesh) more. I think this is because greater speed means faster energy transfer and momentum loss for the lighter bullets as they pass through wet media. Their energy is only enough to slightly stretch the media, which is more damaging to ballistic gelatin and wet newspaper than it is to most living tissue.

Especially with a hollow point. Therefor, depending on which other caliber/bullet you are comparing the 45acp to, it's quite possible that more energy can be transferred into the body from the 45acp. Even if the other caliber/bullet has more initial energy.

.45 ACP FMJ rounds can easily pass all the way through people, and even though they might transfer a little more of their energy to the target, it's far too little to make any difference. With hollow-points, most bullets of any caliber will stay inside the body, so it's moot. The bullets of all service calibers are small compared to the human body, anyway, so the differences in size between them are of extremely low significance.

Is it enough to knock the person off their feet? No. Again, physics would dictate that that much required energy, would also knock the shooter off their feet. However, there is a major difference in a 9mm shooting someone in the leg and it passing through, and a 45acp traveling at 850-900 fps with a bullet twice the weight/mass, and it doesn't exit the leg at all. There will be a lot more energy transferred to the leg.

This is not a realistic example at all, in my opinion. Whichever bullet hits the major artery in the leg or at least bone will cause the most damage. The rest are minor details, which I personally enjoy discussing wherever appropriate, but in the context of this thread the legend of the .45 is really just a myth in the big picture (not saying the caliber isn't effective because it is, just that it's not all that special).

The probable reason for the origin of the legend is that the .45 Colt was popular in the US Army and the Old West as a versatile round for pistols, and was the biggest and most powerful available at the time. This caliber and the somewhat less powerful .45 ACP forged their reputations largely on being more effective than the .38 Long Colt caliber that was in common US military use at the time in the double-action revolvers that had largely replaced the SAA. Whether .45 Colt and .45 ACP actually were significantly more effective doesn't matter as long as soldiers believed that they were (there were reports of .45 caliber bullets actually "knocking down" Moros :rolleyes:, for example, probably based on a handful of well-placed shots or rumors), and besides all that "forty-five" sounds catchy as a phrase, which only helps its popularity over time.

9mm Parabellum, which was and is close to .45 ACP in energy, was dismissed apparently because of its similar bullet diameter to .38 Long Colt, which many had doubted since the beginning, even before its use in combat, just because it was smaller than the already well-liked and respected .45 Colt. In my view, the success of certain calibers as well as the legendary status of some of them were mostly products of the timing of their creation and adoption along with major events that surrounded them at the time. I think people today should know better, but legends die hard. Not that .45 ACP, being larger and somewhat more powerful than 9mm, doesn't hold an advantage per round, but the advantage is small and necessarily trades off capacity (per volume and weight), making these two calibers pretty even in my opinion (well, then there's cost).
 
.45 ACP FMJ rounds can easily pass all the way through people, and even though they might transfer a little more of their energy to the target, it's far too little to make any difference.

Honestly, anyone who discounts the superiority of a larger hole is being disingenous. Even if both bullets go through and through, you always want the bigger hole.

You can argue that energy is equivalent, all you want. Energy doesn't kill people. The energy of the recoil is easily handled by the shooter. It's the tissue damage that kills people. The difference in caliber is ESPECIALLY important when talking about FMJ that goes through and through.

You talk about severing an artery. Well, how big a target is an artery? Pretty small. If you set up a .308 shell on top of a fence and shoot at it from 20 feet away, are you going to have better success using a .45 or a 9mm? I'll take the .45. Your chances of randomly hitting and damaging important stuff is greater, is all, when using ball ammo.
 
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The problem is incomplete truth.

We would like to think that a shooting = Bullet + target+ shot placement..... but reality is far more complex.

We tend to forget relatively common things like muscle spasms, target angle, projectile failure, natural variations is powder charge, ect. There are so many things that could make all the difference in the world for a given scenario that, frankly, most people just ignore.
 
This wiki article closly follows what my father always told about the Army's switch from .38 to .45

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

In response to problems encountered by American units fighting Moro guerrillas during the Philippine-American War, the then-standard Colt M1892 revolver, in .38 Long Colt, was found to be unsuitable for the rigors of jungle warfare, particularly in terms of stopping power, as the Moros had very high battle morale and frequently used drugs to inhibit the sensation of pain.[3] The U.S. Army briefly reverted to using the M1873 single-action revolver in .45 Colt caliber, which had been standard during the last decades of the 19th century; the heavier bullet was found to be more effective against charging tribesmen.[4] The problems with the .38 Long Colt led to the Army shipping new single action .45 Colt revolvers to the Philippines in 1902. It also prompted the then-Chief of Ordnance, General William Crozier, to authorize further testing for a new service pistol.
 
Who's turning up their nose at .44 Magnum?

You can argue 9 vs 10 vs .40 vs .45 till the cows come home.

But saying any of 'em can touch a full house .44 Magnum load, well...

i've heard alot of people say that while the .44 magnum is more powerful it will just blow straight through you and not put all it's energy into the target.

when i ask "that doesn't a .45 overpenetrate?" i sometimes just get a confused look from those i ask and have even been told before that "sure! but by the time it does that it's done all the damage it can do.".
 
My theory....

When .45 ACP first got major exposure in WWI, it had only one serious competitor, the 9MM. With the ball ammo they used back then, the .45 would do a grislier job with the bigger hole. All of the other WWI sidearm calibers were relatively weak. Then, when the soldiers went home, they were knee-deep in .22s, .32s and .38s. I think .45 ACP got its reputation because it originally way outperformed anything likely to be around.
 
Look, I know ammunition was scarce for a while there, but I assure you that .45acp is real.
 
I carry and own several 1911's, but mainlky that is because

I have been shooting them since abour 1970 or so and I am comfortable with them. I know of a WWII marine who shot a Japanese NCO 8 times with a .45 pistol before the man went down, and I am sure he was not the only person to have to use more than one round per target with the 1911.
Several careers were built on praising the 1911 and the .45 ACP round and making John Browning into a sacred figure as well as condemning every other caliber and pistol in existence. Much of that BS still lives online.

IMO, the 1911 is a good pistol, although an antique design. I like the trigger and it fits my hand well, so I use it.
The .45 ACP was designed as a "people" round, is not very good for much else although it is accurate for target shooting. The Army SPECIFIED a .45 caliber round because they were happy with the old .45 Colt revolver round and wanted something similar that worked in an auto pistol, all the latest tech in the early 1900's. It is a good combination, but it is not magic by any means. FWIW, if the bullet would knock a man down on impact, it would also knock down whoever fired it.

FWIW.

mark
 
What Myth.....?
That the .45 is a real "Man Stopper"....? It is.
Does what it was designed for.....and does it well.

A hell of a lot better than a 9mm, 10mm or 40Cal.....who needs them when you have a .45, IMO ?

ugh. no pistol round is a man stopper... and claiming .45 is superior to 10mm is absolutely ridiculous. my god.
 
from what I've read the Moros wore salt-cured 'body armor' of water buff leather and the same hides covered their shields. the .38 would not penetrate this at any range except close up or if not a straight-on shot so the Army had to revert back to the .45saa.
the Army ordnance folk specified they wanted a jacketed ball slug for penetration and JB obliged.
 
The quality of ammo today and the accelerates used therein is really narrowing the gap between defensive rounds. Also, yes, saying that the .45ACP flat out trumps the 10mm is kinda silly.
 
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