California ammo law?

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Want an irony:

Where Do Most People Want to Live?

If you could live in any state, except the one you live in now, what state would you choose to live in?

The Harris Poll has asked this question every year since 1997. While California tops the list of most popular states to live in among Echo Boomers (now ages 18 to 33) and Gen Xers (ages 34 to 45), Hawaii is the top pick for Baby Boomers (ages 46 to 64) and Matures (ages 65 and over). Among Echo Boomers, Hawaii drops out of the top five.

Here are the top-10 states across the age groups:

1. California
2. Hawaii
3. Florida
4. Colorado
5. Arizona
6. North Carolina
7. Oregon
8. Texas
9. New York
10. Washington

Source: Harris Interactive (10/19/2010) and Realtor Mag.

With all of California's nonsense more people in other states want to live in California than anywhere else.
They probably think their lifestyle would be like portrayed on many TV shows and movies.

For every angry person leaving the state it would appear there is several willing to take their place.
 
Well, we are too old and tired to leave so we will stay here and fight as we have been doing. May lose in the long run, but aren't just going to roll over and surrender.

Respectfully,
Kyle
 
I hear you Kyle. I am not going to flee just yet either. But the election was discouraging. On the bright side, Monterey County (where I live) finally has a pro-gun sheriff as they dumped the incumbent, Kanalakis. The new guy, Scott Miller actually came to our gun club during his campaign. Seems like a good fella, but time will tell.
 
Banning out of state sales is step one. Step two is to place a huge sales tax on ammo. This is the game plan. It is all about the $$$
 
I am ordering so much ammo from midway these few months, they should give me a discount!

And yes, that law is pretty absurd.. I "could" still drive to my favor NV. shop and load up from there without having my finger prints taken everything time I buy a box of 50 here in Cali.
 
stchman said:
Here's a thought. The ammo companies like Winchester, Remington, etc. should stop selling ammo to local LE agencies statewide in Ca.


Like this idea!

What are the various gun organizations doing about this?
 
My brother lives in California. He does not shoot much, but he owns a few pistols and 22lr rifles. He told me last week that he is buying as much ammo as he can afford right now and stockpiling.
As far as going to Reno and buying...I live in Ohio. Some states that border us have extremely low tobacco taxes. Since some residents drive across the border and buy cartons of cigs, there have been cases where Ohio agents sit in the parking lots of vendors and look for Ohio plates, follow them back to Ohio and cite them for cig tax evasion. Cali could do that with ammo buyers too.
 
Those who voted against Meg were afraid of her for several reasons... Anti Firearm and throwing a nanny out after faithful service and just plain wrong...

As far as the MJ situation just a badly written item to be honest, what I have read... Men who are aware of testosterone loss know MJ is part of the cause... Lots of variables to be sure...

Brown is for more, than against, many felt, it seems...He won by a huge almost 13 points ;) Much more than just Demos, voted for him it seems...

NRA was not for Meg...

CA is powerful overall and more want a good living than to own a lot of ammo and firearms it seems...They have a huge base of firearms in the state...

Just under 40 million folks live here...Economy is huge and now that Brown is in Obama will be helping the state out where Gov Arnie was unable to...:uhoh:

Regards
 
You might try surplusammo.com in the interim. They have the following caveat on their website: "CA residents please ensure we can ship ammunition to your location before ordering (no ammo shipped to L.A., S.F., Sac., Oakland etc.)." I'm only guessing, but if you can get a valid mailing address outside a major metropolitan area they might ship to you. They've got good prices, and fast service. It's worth a try.
Good luck on getting rid of that onerous "law".
Of course with Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown as governor and Barbara Boxer still on the scene it ain't gonna be easy.
 
jUst curious, does .22LR fall under this Ca. law? It is for both rifle and handgun.
Nobody knows. There are no clarifying regulations yet; that would at least give DOJ's opinion on what is included.
 
"The people in California are smoking something, it's not weed either, they just reelected moonbeam but cast down the legalized smoking of weed" What gives?

While obviously a joke I can explain the inaccuracy:
From what I understand a decent percentage of those who use weed and also sell or grow some don't want it legal because then it ceases to be disproportionally more expensive than another plant.
Meaning all those people that make a living illegally growing and selling it (or semi-legal with medical marijuana) would suddenly have a serious pay cut, and make no more per hour than people working in standard plant nurseries.

Humboldt County, known as one of the largest growing sources in the entire state and nation, where a significant portion of the economy is tied to Marijuana for example voted against legalizing it.
You can't make a living growing a room full of legal plants, and if marijuana was legal you couldn't make one growing a similar amount of pot either.
It would be worth less and taxed more.

This also extends to all the medical marijuana dispensaries. Individual salaries and profit for such places would plummet if the product was subject to normal market supply and demand with large scale commercial growing.

This means many engaged in the illegal activity voted to keep it illegal.
Drug dealers don't want illegal drugs legal, they cease to be highly valuable and profitable in easily transportable quantities.
You cannot grow a garden full of tobacco and make a living on it, and if marijuana was legal you couldn't with it either. Those people would have to actually do more in life to pay the bills or have large amounts of extra spending cash than grow a garden of pot. Either manage entire large commercial farm fields like with other legal plants, or do something else with their life.
The prohibition era gangsters and moonshine runners were just as adamantly opposed to legalizing alcohol, but not because they didn't like or use alcohol themselves.

My point is a lot of marijuana users who are also growers or sellers in the state actually voted against legalizing it. So determining use based on voting is inaccurate. Some of the counties with the highest marijuana activity voted against legalizing it. It was primarily users that were not growers or sellers, as well as non-users that want to stop that portion of the war on drugs that voted for legalizing it.
The prop also outlawed use by the 18-21 voting group and increased the punishment for providing marijuana to them.
That means it actually made it more restricted for the young adult/ college party age group, not exactly attracting their vote.

(I know when I was a teenager it was easier for teenagers to get marijuana than alcohol, primarily because marijuana was illegal and widely available on a black market sold individual to individual, while alcohol required an adult participant to buy it from a store.
Anyone with some cash could get pot, but it took finding an adult that would buy alcohol for a minor to obtain alcohol.
Many of the dealers that sold marijuana would also sell other harder drugs which they would try to push, which I am sure lead to a percentage of potheads becoming addicts of worse things.)
 
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The CA Ammo and MJ thread:what:

MJ #19 was a bad one, so is the Ammo law, one is in one is out, the ammo law just might be overturned IMHO...Courts have a way of changing things I have noticed...

Regards
 
Zoogster,

Great write up and perspective. It made me stop and think. To keep this on topic I'll add the same arguments can and are made for Guns and ammo. Certainly after ab962 is timed in we will see examples of your arguments applying to hg ammo. A small percentage of people will live free no matter how anti rights the laws become.

I live in California, don't smoke weed but voted for 19. My reason was because as far as I'm concerned as long as you are not harming anybody you are good to go. Not to mention the war on drugs, guns, terrorism etc are all false fronts for a war on our rights. At least in my opinion. No harm? no foul is my motto.
 
My reason was because as far as I'm concerned as long as you are not harming anybody you are good to go. Not to mention the war on drugs, guns, terrorism etc are all false fronts for a war on our rights. At least in my opinion. No harm? no foul is my motto.

I also see it as a war on rights and individual liberties.
Most of the indirect losses of liberty in the past several decades have come about from attempts to restrict individuals the majority did not like.

Most expansion of government search and seizure laws came about from the war on drugs. These have played a significant role in a reduction of firearm rights and case law against gun freedoms.
In California the Hayes case is a prime example, where just concealing a loaded magazine while legally having a gun open carried was determined to be a crime in order to justify the otherwise illegal search that uncovered some drugs. Since the drug charge was the whole case, if the search was determined invalid (which it was because a magazine for a perfectly legally carried gun was not a crime or reason for probable cause) the case would have been dropped.
So we all lost a little more of our rights to insure prosecution of the drug crime.

Another example is the Black Panthers. We all lost our right to open carry in California because California legislators voted to restrict the rights of a very tiny percentage of the population that were not very popular with the general population. Protect us from the boogeyman by removing our rights.
All they need is a boogeyman most people are against, and they can pass legislation that encompasses us all under the guise of just stopping the boogeyman.

Gonzales vs Raich (medical marijuana grown in state and never part of commerce at any level, state or federal, still determined subject to Federal jurisdiction) led to a decision which defeats the Firearms Freedom Act before it ever even got off the ground. Without that decision NFA restricted items created for personal or that didn't cross state lines could have been determined outside the scope of the commerce clause. This was shown in California under United States vs Stewart 9th circuit. The court determined a homemade NFA item made only for personal use in Arizona was outside the scope of the commerce clause. Meaning it is entirely legal without NFA registration.
The SCOTUS then told them to reverse their decision "in light of Raich", as Raich created all encompassing logic for Federal authority that could be expanded to anything. The 9th Circuit reversed their decision as directed by the Supreme Court of the United States. Once again the war on drugs led to less firearm freedom.
Federal power was expanded well beyond anything prior in that decision for a wide range of things, all to insure someone on private property growing a plant they never sold to anyone or crossed state lines with was still subject to federal authority.

I could go on with examples all day of direct and indirect losses of firearm rights due to the war on drugs.

As for terrorism, the founders version of an entirely armed people, local militias, and willingness and capability to defeat tyranny foreign and domestic fits nicely in to the modern international and post 9/11 definition of terrorism. The definition our own government uses in classifying foreign terrorists!
Just by being tied to any group involved in an insurgency or struggle, even against ruthless dictators or tyrants, makes someone a "terrorist".
Just knowing or having contact with such a "terrorist" gives someone the title of "has links to terrorist organizations" or "has links to terrorists" or "links to terrorist activity" and subjects them to international economic and military action.
By modern government definition our founders intended a nation of "terrorists". Something to keep in mind with anti-terrorism legislation passing left and right.
Restrictive governments around the world would love to be able to give their citizens few rights, and disarm them all, and subject them all to constant screening for weapons and other methods of resistance to "protect" them from "terrorists".

Anytime you let the government take others' liberties, you eventually lose rights indirectly as a result of the law, the case law, and the legal decisions necessary to uphold the loss of their liberties.
 
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I joined up just to post this, I was reading up to find out if the law did indeed eliminate internet sales to CA and since I didn't see anybody post this I thought I would add it:

As explained to me by local gunshop employee, the handgun ammo restriction is very sneaky, because of the Thompson Center's being chambered in all the various cartridges, the handgun applies to just about everything. I was told, just relaying it, that the only things that are probably not going to be covered are going to be 12ga, 20ga, the shotgun other than 410 (also chambered in handguns).

very very evil.

Red
 
I joined up just to post this, I was reading up to find out if the law did indeed eliminate internet sales to CA and since I didn't see anybody post this I thought I would add it:

As explained to me by local gunshop employee, the handgun ammo restriction is very sneaky, because of the Thompson Center's being chambered in all the various cartridges, the handgun applies to just about everything. I was told, just relaying it, that the only things that are probably not going to be covered are going to be 12ga, 20ga, the shotgun other than 410 (also chambered in handguns).

very very evil.

Red
Welcome to The High Road Dago!
 
I joined up just to post this, I was reading up to find out if the law did indeed eliminate internet sales to CA and since I didn't see anybody post this I thought I would add it:

As explained to me by local gunshop employee, the handgun ammo restriction is very sneaky, because of the Thompson Center's being chambered in all the various cartridges, the handgun applies to just about everything. I was told, just relaying it, that the only things that are probably not going to be covered are going to be 12ga, 20ga, the shotgun other than 410 (also chambered in handguns).

very very evil.

Red

Do you know if CA is planning on publishing a list of what it considers "handgun" ammo?
 
Here's a thought. The ammo companies like Winchester, Remington, etc. should stop selling ammo to local LE agencies statewide in Ca.

I seriously doubt any of those companies are selling ammo to any LE agencies. Like almost all products, those things go through distributors and middle-men.

Trust me, where there's money to be made, there will always be a company to provide products to whoever wants it. Even when it's against the law blackmarkets spring up. Political statements and ideals won't fare very well against potential profit.
 
Yet another reason for Golden Staters to reload (until they impose the same onerous BS on the sale of components). As for the governorship, Arnie learned early in his first term that that office is largely ceremonial, and that the legislature holds most of the power in the state. Not a good situation, to say the least.
 
Nobody knows what ammunition will be covered.

The author of the original bill introduced a followup last session, but it failed - by 1 vote, IIRC. It would have named the calibers that were, for the purposes of the bill (and remember, the legislature can claim black is white for purposes of a bill), handgun ammunition:
SEC. 3. SEC. 4. Section 12323 of the
Penal Code is amended to read:
12323. As used in this chapter, the following definitions shall
apply:
(a) "Handgun ammunition," which does not include blanks and
ammunition designed and intended to be used in an "antique firearm"
as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States
Code, means any variety of ammunition in the following calibers,
notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles:
(1) .22 rimfire .
(2) .25.
(3) .32.
(4) .38.
(5) .9mm.
(6) .10mm.
(7) .40.
(8) .41.
(9) .44.
(10) .45.
(11) 5.7x28mm.
(12) .357.
(13) .454.
(14) 5.56x45mm.
(15) 7.63mm.
(16) 7.65mm.
The failed bill was AB 2528.

But since the bill failed, that list did not become law, and we still do not know.

BTW, the list above is a direct cut and paste from the bill text. I'm not sure that any projectile ordinarily described in millimeters is actually a 'caliber/calibre', and .9mm and .10mm really are what was specified.

See, instead, the links to the lawsuits against implementing the bill at the Calguns Foundation Wiki.
OOIDA v. Lindley
Parker v. California
 
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Same way in Federal Gov...What do you want, a dictator :confused:

It was set down that way similar to the Constitution of US...The Pres, the house and the court system, it is not perfect for the ones who want dictators, Kings and Queens I guess:uhoh::confused:

Yet another reason for Golden Staters to reload (until they impose the same onerous BS on the sale of components). As for the governorship, Arnie learned early in his first term that that office is largely ceremonial, and that the legislature holds most of the power in the state. Not a good situation, to say the least.
 
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