Don't you just love people who come up to you to tell you the "RIGHT" way to shoot.

Sport45 said:

The TV camera and millions (okay, maybe hundreds ) of potential viewers may have leveled the playing field some too.

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The experienced top shot shooter had a problem with reacting under stress. In the previous challenge, he lost focus twice in a rifle relay race. He grabbed the rifle and ran, instead of letting his teammate take the turn. He had to run back to his teammate, and next time, he did the same thing! The loss in time lost his team the match. He recognized after losing the elimination match that he beat himself, mentally. Being on TV is different than confronting a dangerous terrorist, but I hope he looks seriously at his mental performance under stress. I also wonder if he had any life and death shooting conflicts, and how those went.

Not everybody is out there shooting to be a combat shooter, or shooting for self defense training. Lots of people go out to target shoot. And only target shoot ... Not everybody shoots for the same reason.

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And this is one of many reasons why I don't give shooting advise at the range unless they ask.

I often see fathers spending time with their young kids shooting at the range. Yes, it's often obvious the fathers are not proficient with firearms, but am I going to "interfere" with their quality time together? Heck no. For me, I think it's the value of time spent with your kids, not how accurate the shot groups were. Especially when you can see that the kids are having a great time shooting with their dad. Same goes for husband/wife and boyfriend/girlfriend.

I also see many shy, obviously first gun experience shooters having enough problem coping with the loud noise of the gun fire (fortunately, the range staff do a great job of providing hands-on orientation for these cases) and allow them to experience their shooting experience. Once they get more comfortable and become aware of other shooters and their shot groups, they usually seek out information.

One time, a wife of a shooter in the next lane saw my shot groups and asked if I could give her some pointers. With her husband's approval, I ran through the basics of stance/grip/sight/trigger control. When she began to out shoot her husband (she got tight 2 inch groups at 7 yards when her husband was all over the place on a full size target), he got visibly upset and wanted to leave the range. Imagine if you were in his shoes and the discussion they would have on the drive home - "Honey, nothing personal but you suck at shooting"

Of course, if I saw something unsafe or imminently dangerous, I would intervene. For the most part, I just focus on my shooting objectives (testing loads or practicing drills). Now, if I saw someone who was obviously shooting better than me, you can bet I will be having a chat with him/her. I am always open to advise/techniques that is working for someone else and almost every time, they are happy to share what is working for them.

Maybe a better question would be:

How do you approach someone who is obviously doing better than you and ask them for advice?

Last time I nicely asked, I got invited to join a closed range 'combat' shoot. Unfortunately, the timing is bad, but I'm working to get that fixed. (That, and that day, my shoulder was done. I was having trouble plinking with a .22LR. I wasn't sure I was up to running drills with my .45.)

Look at it from the other side. Have you ever approached someone and asked for advice only to be blown off?

" I dislike being taught yet I love to learn." - Sir Winston Churchill

Seems like that guy might fit right into this discussion.

Regards - Al

A better question is to ask what is considered good shooting nowadays? I see "qualification" shoots at ridiculously short ranges (7 or 10 yards) and with ridiculously loose criteria - 10 shots slow and 10 shots rapid fire with a score of 100% if you can keep them within the 10 ring...

With such meaningless criteria, it's easy for anyone to get a high score and then think they need no further instruction. You don't start seeing the results of bad technique until you back off to something like 25 yards.

I don't offer help unless asked. But, I suspect most people who do offer have the best intentions. The fact that you are getting a high score at 7 yards, doesn't mean you are a good or even a competent shooter. It might be best to at least listen to the suggestions and try them out. If they work (and you won't know unless you shoot at a credible distance) then fine. If they don't work, then do something else.

I've been shooting for 35 years and I learn new stuff all the time.

I had a newly received Vaquero at the local range Saturday and was having some POA/POI issues due to my grip not working well with the skinny top of the stock and putting too little trigger finger on the trigger. I was getting consistent hits about 3" left and in a decent, not great group all in the black on an NRA rifle target. The guy next to me was spraying .25ACP all over an E Silhouette, mostly in the white or missing altogether. Not being familiar with single action revolvers, he took my deliberate firing as me having trouble and helpfully volunteered to show me how. So, I loaded the cylinder with Buffalo Bore .44Mags and handed him the revolver. To my relief, he managed not to drop the revolver but he didn't need a follow up shot either, having convincingly killed the berm with the first one. A ceasefire was called and I retrieved my target which was full of wadcutter holes in the black and thanked him for his assistance. It was an awful thing to do but I couldn't help myself.

wow my thumb sits behind the slide, and I have never hit my thumb, never. Not even in the sandbox have I hit my thumb. Thats on full size auto's where I won't hit my thumb. I also have very large hands. My thumb is actually on my wrist. I have people watch me (self proclaimed experts) and after many rounds, tell me " you can't shoot like that!" I have no tact when dealing with these kind of people. And what I tell them varies, but either way, they get the point. I have even told them "Gee, you should have been in combat with me, I probably wouldn't have survived!" Befor you open your mouth, be sure your brain is engaged.

Just because it hasn't killed you yet doesn't make your technique a good one...

The only time I offer advice is when I observe a person obviously having trouble keeping shots on target, and even then, I'll simply ask if they'd like some help. If they say they're fine, I'll stop bothering them and mind my own business, as long as they're being safe.

The weak hand thumb behind the slide is not what I
consider shooting advice, but rather, a safety issue.

I work at an indoor range, and have seen at least
one injury from that grip that resulted in a cut tendon.
I have seen numerous injuries that resulted in a need
for stitches.

The guy that owned the custom shop when I first started carrying back in the 70's claimed to be the "expert" in everything. He was a Russian, and specialized in German Walthers. Only problem was that none of us ever saw him shoot a gun. We used to go every week out to the nassau county police range, and shoot in friendly competition against other clubs. I think he was full of "you know what". Show me, that''s my motto. If you shoot great I will galdlly listen to you all day. But unless yu shoot at least as good or better than I do, ride on. I challenged him after about a year, of his finding excuses not to shoot or why his gun wasn't ready or whatever. Finally I realized the guy was a great salesperson, he had us all out shooting every week giving us rediculous pointers, and we all kept going. He never did shoot a pistol, only shotguns, when we went for birds. Nothing any better than the other guys. So beware of people who claim to be top guns, they are probablly going to try to sell you something, lol

I apologize for resurrecting a 2 week old thread, but I just had my first case of unsolicited gun range advice last night! A guy noticed me picking up my brass and asked if I reloaded, so I told him that I don't have a press yet but plan on getting one in the next year or so. He made a recommendation on a progressive press of some type, which I have no issue with. Where I got irritated was when he went from discussing the advantages of the press he had to criticizing my choice 9mm caliber. Out of the blue he said that .45 was a much better choice for self defense because it's a more reliable stopper and doesn't overpenetrate like 9mm. I told him that I was a new shooter, and deliberately chose 9mm because it is the least expensive, allowing me to get the most trigger time and proficiency for my money, and that I could always move to another caliber when I feel confident in my abilities.

Did you tell him that 9mm vs .45 would be an excellent Internet forum thread?

Haha no, I didn't really want to talk to him more than necessary. I was having way more fun shooting! I got a new Ruger Mk III a few weeks back and I love it to death. I've run about 700 rounds through it now and had my first FTE last night, which I think is excellent for a .22 autoloader to begin with. When you consider that the FTE happened at the end of the night after shooting 250-300 rounds and the gun was getting pretty dirty....I'm pleased with the purchase

I SO LOVE people who would suggest i need to spend 3X the money or im not doing it right.

I've been "helped" on more than one occasion by well meaning individuals. Some were obnoxious and some were quite good.

I've been "coached" by firearms instructors from the US Border Patrol, US Marshals and Fed. BOP. All good folk and at the time only one of them could out shoot me!! LOL

I always nodded politely, did what they said and went about my rat killing after I left the range. I was there as a student so they knew I needed coaching. I always felt that I got a nugget or two out of those training sessions and I did. It was usually a whole compendium of exposure to different ideas.

Out in the world of the non-LEO shooters I have had the dime store Commandos try to show me how it's done and I am always polite. I thank them for their input and then will just flat burn a course down in front of them. They usually do like many of the guys mentioned earlier they will either pack up and leave or find that the tips of their combat Nike's are more interesting than put on those pasters on the A-zone.

I'll give advice if asked regarding technique but only when asked or when it is my job as an instructor. I'll step up if it is a safety issue like the scope on top of the eyebrow before the shot or the thumb behind the slide but other than that I just watch for safety.

Most of the guys on here have been around the block a bit so we know which way the pointy things go. A beginner wanting to learn will realize that and ask for help. I have done more than one session in firearms handling with shooters I had never seen before or since. Always helpful but never pushy.

Greg

when i see someone holding the gun the "wrong way" = teacuping,holding ur strong arms wrist with ur whand,holding ur weakhand thumb behind the slide,doing the limbo etc i usually give en pointers.(specially if its a damzel )

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What's wrong with teacupping if it works for one? It feels just right for me and I do very well with it, better than with any other grip I've tried.

As for advice given me, I'll listen if the advisor asks nicely if I'd like a tip ot two. If they come over and start pontificating, it doesn't go down all that well. It's all in the packaging. I'll also listen to those who don't shoot as well as I do because they may be saying something of worth nonetheless. The NFL, for example, would have a tough time finding coaches if the coaches had to play a better game than the athletes themselves.

Mind your own business unless it's a safety issue.

People today are in your business about everything, keep your advice to yourself unless asked. Bunch of do-gooders up to no good.

I never would have guessed it, but there appears to be a fine line between minding your own business and being considered unfriendly....

That said, some of the most helpful advice I've received came unsolicited from a guy in the next lane over. But I think it was pretty obvious that I was frustrated and getting nowhere. The gentleman very carefully asked if I'd like to have someone watch me shoot and make some suggestions, however.... and that's a lot different than just spitting out criticism/advice.

On the other hand, I often wind up next to guys who want to yack it up.... while I'm trying to actually accomplish something in a limited period of time.

5 min. on this or any other gun board will quickly reveal that there are a lot of opinionated people out in the world who thrive on proving to others how much smarter they (think) they are. I chalk it up to human (prideful) nature.

Don't ask me how I came to this conclusion

If it works for you it's no ones business, even the "experts" differ in their opinions on what is the "right way".
If you aren't getting the results you want, then it's up to you to decide how and who you want to inquire about getting where you want to go. There is no one way to do anything.

Years ago when I rode a bicycle for fitness, I was hammering along a country road when, a car pulled up and an elderly gentleman proceeded to tell me all that was wrong with my technique ... I blew him off and thought he was a crazy old man ... later that day I learned that I had somewhat rudely blown off the coach of United States Olympic cycling team ... oops ...

The fact is that most people don't know how to shoot and think they do. I see it all the time, especially in a class environment. Guys that qualify expert on the police range or do great on a bench come in and fall apart. Because what most people think of as shooting isn't really right unless you are in that specific setting.

The aforementioned Top Shot shooters are a great example of this. Supposedly these are great shooters. Most of them are actually pretty bad.

I don't mind it, as long as it's not overtly incorrect I've picked up some great pointers from fellows at the range (and it usually leads to swapping guns and new shooting experiences

The right way to shoot is the best way that you shoot. Unless your a cop or in the military.