Which 9x18 HP?

The reason 9x18 ammo is loaded at the power level it is, is because the handguns that shoot it have direct blowback mechanisms. They are not locked breech. Hot loads would batter the slide something fierce.

Also I've had over a dozen Makarovs in the past and shot them extensively. The main concern for me of the 9x18 round was penetration or lack thereof, not expansion. I always thought 9x18 ball ammo would penetrate more and do more harm than a hollow point in the caliber.

They are fantastic pistols but the reson I sold all mine was I got heavy into reloading and Maks threw brass into the next county.

The reason 9x18 ammo is loaded at the power level it is, is because the handguns that shoot it have direct blowback mechanisms. They are not locked breech. Hot loads would batter the slide something fierce.

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But they're supposed to be loaded hotter than .380, was the whole thing with their development (from 9mm Ultra...I think). I don't worry about it, either, figuring the Silver Bear HP is pretty hot and cheap and probably would do more damage than a ball round even if it don't expand.

They are fantastic pistols but the reson I sold all mine was I got heavy into reloading and Maks threw brass into the next county.

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Boy, I heard that! I shoot the cheap ($9.95 a box) Monarch from Academy in mine cause after trimming 50 9x19s down a millimeter, I don't wanna lose a round. LOL I've loaded 100 rounds with a Lee cast RN and they functioned great and shoot very well, as good as all the factory stuff. I just ain't got the time and energy to load all that just to toss the brass away.

Lately, I'm into my revolvers. LOL I'm keepin' this little P64, though, cause I like it. I just don't carry it much, don't mean I need to sell it or anything.

Of course they're blow back but I'm pretty sure the Mak can handle 1100-1125fps and certainly the CZ82 can, seeing as it was actually designed around something like a 62 grain sintered iron bullet with velocities around 1250fps.

As far as the brass, at least on the CZ, replacing the recoil spring with a 16lb (instead of 14.5lb) Wolff spring has kept the brass in the same zip code and easily found/picked up.....The pistol has still been 100% reliable with the 16lb spring.

I agree though with the current dumbed down offerings in HP, I'd just as soon run FMJ in the caliber.

Purchasing 9x18 dies and rolling your own looks like the only way to get a HP worthwhile.....IMO

...certainly the CZ82 can, seeing as it was actually designed around something like a 62 grain sintered iron bullet with velocities around 1250fps.

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I keep hearing the "hot iron ammo" thing, but this is the first time I've heard 62 grains and 1250 fps. Where did you find these specifics? I can't find any specifications, ballistics testing, nada, but I'm very curious to learn more about this round. Also, does anybody know if it would be legal to import such a round? Or does sintered iron make the ATF's no-no list?

Steve C said:

Hornady XTP's or FTX are good and seem to expand reliably.

Here is a guy testing the Silver Bear Vs the Hornady XTP's on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LY5IFZib9g

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I shot 'Critical Defense' through my IJ-70 .380. The commercial Bajkal is probably least accurate of all true PM pistols yet this load produced very satisfying groups tighter then my beloved Gold Dots. If I owned anything in 9x18 I would put Hornady loads near top of my list.

+1. Mak is suppsed to be significantly hotter than .380.

I don't know the exact SAAMI numbers, but .380 is loaded to around 15,000 psi. Mak to over 20,000 psi. Powder charge weights are roughly 10-12% higher, per the reloading manuals.

Boy, I heard that! I shoot the cheap ($9.95 a box) Monarch from Academy in mine cause after trimming 50 9x19s down a millimeter, I don't wanna lose a round. LOL I've loaded 100 rounds with a Lee cast RN and they functioned great and shoot very well, as good as all the factory stuff. I just ain't got the time and energy to load all that just to toss the brass away.

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I also shoot the cheap stuff, Brown Bear. I still reload, but mostly I reload the Hornady XTP's. Still not sure whether they're the go-to for my particular guns. Aside from penetration issues, I'm still trying to find an OAL that my PA-63 likes. The JHP wants to catch on the top lip of the mag, sometimes. It still feeds ok, but it's disconcerting to feel a delay when the slide returns to battery.

For trimming brass, I am planning to use the Lee zip trim case holder in a drill. It should be quick and easy. Even with the regular shellholder, it isn't too bad.

I haven't shot one of these yet but I have been researching it in anticipation of possibly getting a CZ82. My conclusion based on tests I have seen thus far is that Buffalo Bore probably has it right.

IMO you don't really want an expanding HP but rather a heavy for caliber flat point. Penetration is critical especially in lighter calibers. The damage has to be carried through to the vitals from any angle. The FP is far superior to the RN ball ammunition in that in addition to penetrating it disturbs and damages far more tissue.

This would be the first ammo I would be testing even if I had to polish the feed ramp.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=220

mike

I keep hearing the "hot iron ammo" thing, but this is the first time I've heard 62 grains and 1250 fps. Where did you find these specifics? I can't find any specifications, ballistics testing, nada, but I'm very curious to learn more about this round. Also, does anybody know if it would be legal to import such a round? Or does sintered iron make the ATF's no-no list?

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Iron is AP in handguns, the ammo is 9x18 Vz. 82 NOT Mak, just happens to be interchangeable, Member have got some from Czech army members while serving with them overseas, it's pretty well covered, AND this is one of the ammo's that cause such FUN internet rumors as the 'MAK SMG ammo" and being IRON,

It EATS rifling, and, this is funny, 'black ball' 9Mak was sold 200 rounds packaged with the PA-63, just about the WORSE combination, a hot round, pushing a iron bullets down a traditional rifled bore in the most delicate of 9Mak guns....

I posted a link to the vz 82 ammo a while ago, go search it, it's still out there, I actually found 2 boxes for sale, just not a prices I'd be willing to pay.

For trimming brass, I am planning to use the Lee zip trim case holder in a drill. It should be quick and easy. Even with the regular shellholder, it isn't too bad.

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The Lee trimmer is what I use. It works, just a bigger pain than NOT having to trim.

I use 116gr hard cast handloaded to max. I tested them out and lined up 4 jugs. It went through all four jugs and kept on going.
Non of the Barnaul 9x18 ball ammo from Academy could do that. I even tried handloading the bullet backwards, but there is very little room for powder.

I like the Hornandy XTP bullets.


Look at the size of that cavity!



....And, yes, they feed reliably.

And, yes, they feed reliably.

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Did you have to do anything to the ramp to get them to feed reliably in the CZ 82?

CZguy said:

Did you have to do anything to the ramp to get them to feed reliably in the CZ 82?

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Nope, my cz-82 feeds those no problem.

I have shot the Hornady load in an east German Makarov, a P64, and a CZ82. All three pistols worked reliably with the load without any work whatsoever.
But, I just feel Hornady could have upped the velocity a bit.
Mostly, I just shoot Silver Bear.

It fires perfectly with the hornandys. Shot near to a 100 rounds with zero failures.


Ya, I plink with silver bear, and keep the hornadys loaded at home.

The buffalo bore are crazy fun in it by the way.

Its a very valid question from the OP

I was looking hard at a CZ82 to add to the carry rotation.

I like the way they shoot for me.


I decided against it after looking at actual testing results for penetration and expansion from available JHP.

I decided to go 45 and just recently 9 mm for pocket carry

For me, having a FMJ (or a JHP that acts like a FMJ because it doesnt expand)

Is a risk that i didnt want to take for my CCW needs

Love the CZ82, very accurate, great feel, but not my choice, due to the lack of quality JHP choices.

I am also noticing that the cost of ammo (FMJ target)

For 9x18 is getting closer and closer to 9mm

Which was one of the reasons that i was looking at a CZ82

In my own humble opinion, get a CZ82 for plinking, but with the low cost, quality, USA made pistols
available, like kahr, Ruger, keltec, etc in 9mm should be considered.

Dean1818 said:

Its a very valid question from the OP

I was looking hard at a CZ82 to add to the carry rotation.

I like the way they shoot for me.


I decided against it after looking at actual testing results for penetration and expansion from available JHP.

I decided to go 45 and just recently 9 mm for pocket carry

For me, having a FMJ (or a JHP that acts like a FMJ because it doesnt expand)

Is a risk that i didnt want to take for my CCW needs

Love the CZ82, very accurate, great feel, but not my choice, due to the lack of quality JHP choices.

I am also noticing that the cost of ammo (FMJ target)

For 9x18 is getting closer and closer to 9mm

Which was one of the reasons that i was looking at a CZ82

In my own humble opinion, get a CZ82 for plinking, but with the low cost, quality, USA made pistols
available, like kahr, Ruger, keltec, etc in 9mm should be considered.

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I can't argue too much with the lack of jhp choices in 9x18, but are you really going to compare a cz-82 with a kel-tec? Because that's the only other pistol you listed that can come even close to the cz-82 in price. Just saying

The KT is nice, it works, kinda in a minimalist way, much like a 1980's Honda worked to get you from point A to point B

The 82 is much like a used Mercedes-Benz, it's used, has lot's of life left to it, and affordable at a reasonalbe price, solely because there's surplus. The CZ-83 is a $500 gun and well made for that price.

And while I too like small 9's, I have yet to find one I like shooting as much as the 82, it's soft recoiling and REALLY damn accurate.

Shadow 7D said:

The KT is nice, it works, kinda in a minimalist way, much like a 1980's Honda worked to get you from point A to point B

The 82 is much like a used Mercedes-Benz, it's used, has lot's of life left to it, and affordable at a reasonalbe price, solely because there's surplus. The CZ-83 is a 500 is gun and well made for that price.

And while I too like small 9's, I have yet to find one I like shooting as much as the 82, it's soft recoiling and REALLY damn accurate.

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Most KT's work, but that's about all I can say for them. God awful triggers, overly snappy recoil, no thanks. 82's, on the other hand, with their light butter smooth triggers...

All in all, pretty good analogy man.

harmon rabb said:

I can't argue too much with the lack of jhp choices in 9x18, but are you really going to compare a cz-82 with a kel-tec? Because that's the only other pistol you listed that can come even close to the cz-82 in price. Just saying

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The keltecs are cheap, not $200 cheap but Close enough

The available offerings in 9mm make it a better choice


I can be counted in the CZ82 as a fun gun crowd.......

For me....... Just not a carry option

I can be counted in the CZ82 as a fun gun crowd.......

For me....... Just not a carry option

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Me too, we have two of them as dedicated car and truck guns. For which they are ideally suited, in my view.

I ve shot a 1/4 inch plated aluminum with Barnaul 95 gr JHP at 7 yds , It made a perfect hole. Thats my carry round with my Russian Makarov.

The keltecs are cheap, not $200 cheap but Close enough

The available offerings in 9mm make it a better choice


I can be counted in the CZ82 as a fun gun crowd.......

For me....... Just not a carry option
Dean1818 is offline Report Post Quick reply to this message

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As I own both a Kel-Tec PF-9 and a CZ82, I'd have to come down solidly on the side of the CZ82 as the winner in the budget carry gun contest. I really, really wanted to like that PF-9, but too many failures to extract, even after a trip back to Kel-Tec has destroyed my confidence in it, so I won't carry it. Further, as it's really not 'fun' to shoot, I'm left with no real reason to continue owning it. Damn it, if they could only make that gun reliable, it would be perfect.

Anyway, the CZ82, with it's 12 round magazine, has been 100%. Just as importantly to me, I shoot it as well as almost any other handgun I own, and it's 'fun' to shoot, besides. It carries just fine in a Kholster (or Crossbreed, or similar, I suspect). It's about the same size as a Glock 19 (dimension-wise, not weight), for less than half the price.

Only downside is the 9x18 isn't as powerful as the 9mm Para, but the Buffalo Bore 95grain "+P" (whatever that means), gets it into the ballpark of 38 special easily and that's my other carry gun (pocket).