Two legged dangers in National Parks
- Thread starter wbwanzer
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I know this is primarily dealing with human threats, but it's also wise to consider the threat of dangerous animals.
It's true that you can avoid a lot of confrontation with animals simply by respecting them and giving them their space and by not doing stupid things that make your campsite smell like food. However, I shot a raccoon last year that was almost certainly rabid. It literally charged out the woods at me in broad daylight. Fortunately, I was on my game that day and realized that seeing one out in the daylight at all was a little suspicious so I was somewhat mentally prepared to react when it attacked me. Had I not shot it I might have wound up with rabies. I ALWAYS pack a gun in the woods.
It's true that you can avoid a lot of confrontation with animals simply by respecting them and giving them their space and by not doing stupid things that make your campsite smell like food. However, I shot a raccoon last year that was almost certainly rabid. It literally charged out the woods at me in broad daylight. Fortunately, I was on my game that day and realized that seeing one out in the daylight at all was a little suspicious so I was somewhat mentally prepared to react when it attacked me. Had I not shot it I might have wound up with rabies. I ALWAYS pack a gun in the woods.
Here are a couple more sad incidents in National Forests.
Do a search for Robert Bravence and his wife, Cheryl Bravence. He was an U.S. Marine captain, on-leave, vacationing in a northern Idaho National Forest. His wife was camping with him. Two outlaws came into camp and beat both Capt. Bravence and Cheryl, to death. This was several years ago.
Another. Search for Mary Cooper, 56, and her daughter, Susanna Stodden, 27, both murdered off of the Pinnacle Lake Trail, Snohomish County, Washington.
I have had a couple of serious problems while recreating out in the boonies, also.
I don't go out unarmed.
L.W.
Do a search for Robert Bravence and his wife, Cheryl Bravence. He was an U.S. Marine captain, on-leave, vacationing in a northern Idaho National Forest. His wife was camping with him. Two outlaws came into camp and beat both Capt. Bravence and Cheryl, to death. This was several years ago.
Another. Search for Mary Cooper, 56, and her daughter, Susanna Stodden, 27, both murdered off of the Pinnacle Lake Trail, Snohomish County, Washington.
I have had a couple of serious problems while recreating out in the boonies, also.
I don't go out unarmed.
L.W.
cleardiddion
Member
This thread gives me a bit of the chills.
This one happened to me not in a NP, but in a sizeable trail/park.
Me and my girlfriend used to hit up a lot of the trails on the foothills, it became something of a hobby at the same time when I started seriously carrying. Turns out that a few days before we hit this particular trail, a man and his woman from the local area had been on a rather normal day hike when they were ambushed rigth along the path.
A guy basically jumped them from the treeline, caught the two of them by surprised and tied them to a couple of trees with a few lengths of rope. After he was done with that, he basically went back and forth between the two of them with a knife threatening to cut them to ribbons just because he could. For some reason, he decided that he was going to wander off a bit and they managed to work their way loose before any further harm could come to them.
Well, my girl mentioned this bit of nuttiness when we were on the way up to the trail and honestly I kind of brushed it off. A few miles into the hike we heard footsteps coming up quickly behind us. I thought this was strange because we were about 3 miles into somewhat rough country and the only thing that we'd encountered on the way in were those on mountain bikes. I took a peek behind us and saw a man with no shirt, running shoes, and a fanny pack catching up to us right quick. Not the strangest thing in the area but considering how hot it got some gears running in my head.
I stopped us on one side of the track with my girl behind and me to right and turned just enough to show my holster on my belt. He seemed to speed up a bit and dashed around a bend that I couldn't see around due to a rather deep set of pines. Now the part that got me a little weirded out was that after we rounded that bend there was a straight stretch of about 150-175yds and the guy was nowhere to seen. I can understand that some people are insanely quick but covering nearly 200 yds in under the 12 or so seconds it took for us to get to the point where we could see seems...improbable. That got me a little nervous admitedly. Stood there for a moment listening for footsteps/rustling but couldn't pick up anything that way and I couldn't see anyone in the trees. We pressed on but I made sure to undo the flap and keep my hand close to my pistol. It got a little stranger when we managed to run into a group of three people about a half mile further up the trail and asked if they had seen anyone matching the description for the "ghost runner." They replied that they hand't seen anything and it's not like they could have missed him on that path.
Since then, I don't think I've gone out without a sidearm on the trails or woods. The positive thing about this encounter is the fact that ever since then, my girl (who wasn't too enthralled with the idea of firearms when we first started dating) hasn't complained about me carrying.
This one happened to me not in a NP, but in a sizeable trail/park.
Me and my girlfriend used to hit up a lot of the trails on the foothills, it became something of a hobby at the same time when I started seriously carrying. Turns out that a few days before we hit this particular trail, a man and his woman from the local area had been on a rather normal day hike when they were ambushed rigth along the path.
A guy basically jumped them from the treeline, caught the two of them by surprised and tied them to a couple of trees with a few lengths of rope. After he was done with that, he basically went back and forth between the two of them with a knife threatening to cut them to ribbons just because he could. For some reason, he decided that he was going to wander off a bit and they managed to work their way loose before any further harm could come to them.
Well, my girl mentioned this bit of nuttiness when we were on the way up to the trail and honestly I kind of brushed it off. A few miles into the hike we heard footsteps coming up quickly behind us. I thought this was strange because we were about 3 miles into somewhat rough country and the only thing that we'd encountered on the way in were those on mountain bikes. I took a peek behind us and saw a man with no shirt, running shoes, and a fanny pack catching up to us right quick. Not the strangest thing in the area but considering how hot it got some gears running in my head.
I stopped us on one side of the track with my girl behind and me to right and turned just enough to show my holster on my belt. He seemed to speed up a bit and dashed around a bend that I couldn't see around due to a rather deep set of pines. Now the part that got me a little weirded out was that after we rounded that bend there was a straight stretch of about 150-175yds and the guy was nowhere to seen. I can understand that some people are insanely quick but covering nearly 200 yds in under the 12 or so seconds it took for us to get to the point where we could see seems...improbable. That got me a little nervous admitedly. Stood there for a moment listening for footsteps/rustling but couldn't pick up anything that way and I couldn't see anyone in the trees. We pressed on but I made sure to undo the flap and keep my hand close to my pistol. It got a little stranger when we managed to run into a group of three people about a half mile further up the trail and asked if they had seen anyone matching the description for the "ghost runner." They replied that they hand't seen anything and it's not like they could have missed him on that path.
Since then, I don't think I've gone out without a sidearm on the trails or woods. The positive thing about this encounter is the fact that ever since then, my girl (who wasn't too enthralled with the idea of firearms when we first started dating) hasn't complained about me carrying.
This thread reminded me about how this online community lost a member a few years ago. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=373815&highlight=markmc753
Anything can happen anywhere.
Anything can happen anywhere.
OldmanFCSA
Member
You're just pissed because you had sore feet and were only wearing a jock strap when you walked out of the area!!!!
.338Sako
Member
Great post I read every one. It's good to read and understand this could be you. Always be prepared for the unexpected.
we are not amused
Member
Actually, the last part was the best part. I can understand your emotions about it today, I would probably feel the same, But DAMMMN! Making crime pay! In all seriousness, he probably got a better lesson than being hauled to jail. Certainly you had a lot less hassle. I don't now if the experience reformed him, but I bet he never forgot it.
In all seriousness, even here in the rural country, we have problems with marijuana farms being guarded by "caretakers" and that is not to mention the Meth Labs that seem to get get set up in every abandoned farmstead. I don't travel the back roads anymore with out being armed.
[The danger is real, but grossly overstated.]
Really? How is the threat of any danger overrated?
Safeguarding yourself against the possiblity of danger is better then the alternative.
An ounce (or serveral...depending on your sidearm of choice) of prevention is better than a pound of assault/robbery/death.(you pick).
Really? How is the threat of any danger overrated?
Safeguarding yourself against the possiblity of danger is better then the alternative.
An ounce (or serveral...depending on your sidearm of choice) of prevention is better than a pound of assault/robbery/death.(you pick).
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If you have been to Yosemite in the summer recently, you would notice the gangbangers from Merced and Modesto. They go in on a daypass and make the tourists uncomfortable. In the summer you have to be careful just as you would in the worst areas of a city. The only crime I saw in the winter was a fistfight between two drunk gay guys at the Awahnee. It was a domestic dispute.
we are not amused
Member
Saying the danger is real but overstated, doesn't mean it isn't real, just overstated.
We are so interested in the stories of attacks in the parks, we sometimes forget, that they are not everyday occurrences. Rereading some of these postings, it makes it sound like they are the most dangerous places in the world. Not true, neither are the back roads I travel locally. But they are both dangerous enough to want to be alert and ready for trouble. I don't think anyone is trying to overstate the danger, but when you get to reading all the different examples, it may make the parks seem more dangerous than they really are.
None the less, I am glad that we can now carry legally in the Parks, since it makes me less nervous to do so. Not that I am admitting to any wrongdoing, but I never went back country without a gun, no matter where it was. Concealed carry does mean just that.
Ghost Tracker,
I spent a lot of time in Red River Gorge hiking back in there when I lived in Lexington. It really is beautiful, and the rock formations are really interesting. BTW, was Miguels Pizza there way back then?
I am not going to pass judgment on what you did to that guy. I probably would have just left him there with his stuff then called the cops and gave a description of him, but I can say that here, safe in my living room.
There is no reason to not carry a firearm when in National Parks. I always thought it was stupid when CCW holders had to leave their guns at home or in the car when hiking in a National Park.
I spent a lot of time in Red River Gorge hiking back in there when I lived in Lexington. It really is beautiful, and the rock formations are really interesting. BTW, was Miguels Pizza there way back then?
I am not going to pass judgment on what you did to that guy. I probably would have just left him there with his stuff then called the cops and gave a description of him, but I can say that here, safe in my living room.
There is no reason to not carry a firearm when in National Parks. I always thought it was stupid when CCW holders had to leave their guns at home or in the car when hiking in a National Park.
Ignition Override
Member
As for people producing/selling drugs in rural areas, Missouri reportedly has one of the highest concentrations of meth labs, but hopefully they are all in private residences
What is strange is that in a narrow (100 yard wide) strip of a wooded ridge here between housing developments, my wife discovered an old abandoned shack hidden in the trees, not visible from the walking trails.
It must have been used decades ago as a hunting cabin, before homes were built here. Trying to imagine what is deep in forests makes me want to acquire a handgun before I retire and enjoy state or national parks much more often.
And a friend saw his first wild black (Russian) boar at Big Hill Pond State Park a week ago, but the pig heard him chatting and raced off.
What is strange is that in a narrow (100 yard wide) strip of a wooded ridge here between housing developments, my wife discovered an old abandoned shack hidden in the trees, not visible from the walking trails.
It must have been used decades ago as a hunting cabin, before homes were built here. Trying to imagine what is deep in forests makes me want to acquire a handgun before I retire and enjoy state or national parks much more often.
And a friend saw his first wild black (Russian) boar at Big Hill Pond State Park a week ago, but the pig heard him chatting and raced off.
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Hello all! Thank you for having such a insightful website. I found your sight while searching for "small handgun to carry while running".
Personal experiences:
1) My husband and I were shot at west of Utah Lake near Camp Williams. We were on our way home from Little Sahara Sand Dunes when tracer fire..yes tracer fire went in front of our windshield. The only guess by local authorities was Army reservists were dicking around.
2) Lake Oneida near Preston Idaho. Drunk locals forgot to put their prop up on the boat blocking the only boat ramp while they fought with themselves, which in turn left my husband up to his nuts in cold water holding our wave runners while I'm waiting for these idiots to to get out of the way so I can back down the ramp. When I finally get the trailer to the water, I say to my husband "haven't these guys ever heard of respect for others" I guess it was loud enough one guy heard me. Next thing you know, 4 guys are in our face. I was pushed down and my husband was cornered on the end of the dock. Thank heavens one guy in the group was sober and talked his friends down. I was horrified I put us/myself in that position. It could have been really ugly. We decided then and there we would never allow ourselves to be in such a helpless/victim situation ever again.
3) Moab Utah-We are in our old 78' motorhome getting gas. I go into the service station to buy some supplies while my husband pumps gas, he notices some non-locals hanging out in the shadows but doesn't think much of it. He starts pumping gas on the drivers side, after a few minutes he hears the door(passenger side compartment) SLAM shut. My husband walks to the front of the motor home in time to see a man running to his friends, jumping in the car with New Mexico plates and speed away. The reason the door slammed shut was because we had been having problems with it opening while we drove so we had a bungee cord from it to the stove. We assume he was trying to sneak in and the bungee cord caused the door to slip out of his hands. We were never so happy to have a broke down old motorhome in our lives. We figure if that a-hole had gotten in we would not have known til we were driving down the road and God only knows what would have happened. Moral of the story......be prepared! So I ask this question. I enjoy trail running in the area and have been doing so for 15 years. The last few years has seen a rise in out-of-town vehicles parked in secluded areas, "cat calls" in a foreign language as well as lewd gestures are unnerving at best. Besides pepper spray which small caliber handgun would you guys/gals recommend to carry? Yes, size is a issue. I have had my concealed carry for 10 years now. I own/carry a sub-compact Glock 40 during normal life, but this gun is too large to carry while running. Any thoughts?
Personal experiences:
1) My husband and I were shot at west of Utah Lake near Camp Williams. We were on our way home from Little Sahara Sand Dunes when tracer fire..yes tracer fire went in front of our windshield. The only guess by local authorities was Army reservists were dicking around.
2) Lake Oneida near Preston Idaho. Drunk locals forgot to put their prop up on the boat blocking the only boat ramp while they fought with themselves, which in turn left my husband up to his nuts in cold water holding our wave runners while I'm waiting for these idiots to to get out of the way so I can back down the ramp. When I finally get the trailer to the water, I say to my husband "haven't these guys ever heard of respect for others" I guess it was loud enough one guy heard me. Next thing you know, 4 guys are in our face. I was pushed down and my husband was cornered on the end of the dock. Thank heavens one guy in the group was sober and talked his friends down. I was horrified I put us/myself in that position. It could have been really ugly. We decided then and there we would never allow ourselves to be in such a helpless/victim situation ever again.
3) Moab Utah-We are in our old 78' motorhome getting gas. I go into the service station to buy some supplies while my husband pumps gas, he notices some non-locals hanging out in the shadows but doesn't think much of it. He starts pumping gas on the drivers side, after a few minutes he hears the door(passenger side compartment) SLAM shut. My husband walks to the front of the motor home in time to see a man running to his friends, jumping in the car with New Mexico plates and speed away. The reason the door slammed shut was because we had been having problems with it opening while we drove so we had a bungee cord from it to the stove. We assume he was trying to sneak in and the bungee cord caused the door to slip out of his hands. We were never so happy to have a broke down old motorhome in our lives. We figure if that a-hole had gotten in we would not have known til we were driving down the road and God only knows what would have happened. Moral of the story......be prepared! So I ask this question. I enjoy trail running in the area and have been doing so for 15 years. The last few years has seen a rise in out-of-town vehicles parked in secluded areas, "cat calls" in a foreign language as well as lewd gestures are unnerving at best. Besides pepper spray which small caliber handgun would you guys/gals recommend to carry? Yes, size is a issue. I have had my concealed carry for 10 years now. I own/carry a sub-compact Glock 40 during normal life, but this gun is too large to carry while running. Any thoughts?
First welcome to the high road.
I guess that to me the three examples that you gave (while scary) did not call for you to use, or display a firearm.
As to size or type of handgun......you really need to go to your LGS and see what fits best in your hand.
Your right both comments. Avoid the situation at all cost and use deadly force as a last resort. I was looking for active runners who carry when I found this site. I was looking for personal experience and their likes and dislikes so I can make a informed decision on what or what not to carry. I have large hands for a female and are very comfortable with my Glock 40 with a clip extension. I may be in the wrong location for this info. Thank you for the welcome and quick response. Happy New Year everyone. Be safe
lloveless
Member
geekgirl, You might look at the kel-tec 3 AT, and the Ruger LCP, both are in .380. They weigh less than 10 oz, and are very concealable. There are others, but these two stand out. My son has had both. I carry an Kel-Tec p32 in .32. Good luck in your quest.
ll
ll
Follow this link. And start a new thread.
http://www.thehighroad.org/forumdisplay.php?f=33
The KelTec P3AT or Ruger LCP would be good choices for the type of concealment that you are talking about.
But to get back on topic, I plan on getting a good hike in tomorrow.
nickn10
Member
CZguy:
"I guess that to me the three examples that you gave (while scary) did not call for you to use, or display a firearm."
CZ;
How about a little compassion for her obvious concern and fear. She didn't need to be preached to, she was seeking advice about a suitable carry pistol while running. Which came after the mini sermon.
Nick
"I guess that to me the three examples that you gave (while scary) did not call for you to use, or display a firearm."
CZ;
How about a little compassion for her obvious concern and fear. She didn't need to be preached to, she was seeking advice about a suitable carry pistol while running. Which came after the mini sermon.
Nick
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nickn10
Member
Ok, Ok It's Sunday, maybe "preached to" was a bit over the top. Anyway I just felt her concern. Sorry no offense intended.
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