ak 47

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justinj, my last post is to the OP. i never said its a traditional akm variant (read my last post carefuly)

I misread. My mistake.

ok justinJ, then convince me why i should buy an arsenal/saiga over the m10? keep in mind off the shelf as it comes and price range, from the dealer. and really dont care if its made in russia...PLEASE, as for short sight radius....not again, i have a couple of pistols with short sight radius and have no problems shooting with them. i have no problems shooting my m10 also, heck i got an akm variant with a 6" sight radius and still hittin at what i aim at.

A better question is why pay more for an m10 than any other wasr. In regards to why Arsenal, first reason is quality. I've handled the m10 and saw nothing to impress me over other Romanian AKs. I see nothing more than a Romanian with short sight radius and excessively heavy quad rail. I'm not saying they are junk but from a quality perspective the Russian and Bulgarian guns have them beat, hands down. Yes, the romanians are far cheaper so each must decide if they are willing to pay for higher quality. Just don't tell me the m10 offers more. Arsenals can also be had with side folding stocks which are far more comfortable and a much better quad rail. Not to mention proper magwell dimples. The fixed stock m10s come with Tapco stocks. Nuff said about that.

Also, you said they are accurate. Compared to what? Are you implying they have greater accuracy than any other AKM variant?

There is no question that a longer sight radius improves practical accuracy. Some guns give up the sight radius for reduced over all length. My issue with the m10's reduced radius is that it gives it up for what? Cool looks? Yeah, AK47s aren't terribly accurate to begin with by why hinder it further?

You may not see the value in a gun made by Izhmash, the maker of Russian military AKs, but many of us do which is obvious by their retained value.

Again, i'm not trying to trash the m10 and i'm glad you like yours but IMO Arsenal makes a superior gun.
 
justinj, if i wanted a quality type ak variant i would skip the arsenals and go directly to the veprs, i bought one over the arsenals. when you talk about how accurate i always refer to "ak accurate" if you want i will gladly post a pic of a 50y group shooting irons with my "short sight radius". as for the quad rail... have you actually removed one to see how heavy they are? i did and the dang thing is so stupid light i cant imagine anybody complaining about it, not unless thier so picky about things. if it does not impress you over a standard wasr, thats you opinion. i can tell you this much the m10 impresses me over any converted saiga for the price. if your talkin about an ak holding its value, better start savin and look into the pr-ban chinese aks, now thats somethin i will buy over any arsenl....oh wait i did, i have one a pre-ban 84s, and yes i bought this over any arsenal, to each is own grab your ak and go shoot and be happy:)

by the way
puchased a cz-usa vz58 before any of my aks, heck the czechpoint vzs and cz vzs i my opinion is money well spent over any arsenal in my opinion
 
I've been pondering getting a VEPR in 5.45. Anyone have experience shooting the VEPR? How is the accuracy compared to an Arsenal SGL31? I understand the mags are proprietary and you're limited to 5 and 10 round mags, which is a bit of a bummer, but it's a cool looking little carbine.
 
VEPR's are based on the Soviet RPK LMG so the barrels and receivers are heavier construction than a standard AK/Saiga. End result is they tend to be a little more accurate. They also tend to be a little heavier in my experience.

I think it all depends on what you want to use it for. For hunting or straight target shooting I think I'd choose a VEPR. But for shooting while moving and more tactical stuff I like the SGL better because it's just a little faster to point. They're both great rifles. They just have slightly different intended uses.
 
ifit, where did you get that cheek piece for your M10? I have a Tantal with the same buttstock and I'm interested in that.
 
I am still looking around and reading and I've found that people keep saying that Saiga is a good brand but everyone keeps talking about converting it later. What are they talking about?

Saigas are currently manufactured, new AKM series rifles. They are made at the Izhmash factory in Izhevsk, Russia. Unless something has changed recently Mikhail Kalashnikov still works there. I am a big fan of Saiga rifles, to me no AK is cooler than an actual Russian made Kalashnikov. The problem is that 'real' AKMs are military rifles and they cannot be imported to the USA. To get around this problem Izhmash installs a wonky trigger that is relocated further back on the receiver and a crappy plastic shotgun stock. These changes magically change this military rifle into a "sporting rifle" that can be imported to the USA.

I am not an expert on AKs by any means and I've probably missed something but the gist of AK importation and conversion goes kinda like this:

"Converting" or "restoring" a Saiga is moving the trigger group forward to it's originally designed location. This yields a greatly improved trigger for better accuracy and standardizes the weapon so the myriad of original and aftermarket AK stocks and pistol grips can be used. When you convert a Saiga you use US made parts to replace the weird ones that were used to make it legal for importation. This changes the "parts count" on a list of certain components so there are no more than 10 foreign made parts on the list. Less than 10 imported parts makes the rifle legally a US made weapon so it no longer has to be 922r compliant and you can run a flash hider, high capacity magazines, pistol grip, etc.

From what I understand most (or all?) Arsenal brand AKs are converted Saigas. Many people, including myself, convert their own. There is a ton of information about how to do this and what parts options you have all over the web. The Saiga12 forum is hands-down the best forum for all things Saiga.

You read about parts kits and people talking about parts kit guns quite a bit. With the ban on importing complete surplus AKs in place the work-around is to disassemble the rifle overseas and scrap the receiver as this part "is" the rifle legally. Then you can import the "parts kit" that's left over so it can be reassembled into a US-made receiver making it legally a US-made rifle. The problem with parts kit guns is the rifles they were made from vary in quality and some of them were just plain worn out before being parted out and shipped here. Remember that these are used guns, other than the new US receiver. It's also been said that that largest importer/builder of parts kit guns has an army of poorly trained chimps that actually assembles the rifles. This is how you get "canted" (crooked) front sights and gas blocks as well as bullet guides that fall off and other random quality problems.

I think all WASRs are parts kit guns and this is why people refer to "good" or "bad" ones. Their quality of build and condition of parts is all over the place so each individual rifle has to be considered. I've seen "new" WASR 10s that will not hit the broad side of a barn from 100 feet away, literally! I've also fired a few that are as accurate as any quality AK.
 
I've been pondering getting a VEPR in 5.45. Anyone have experience shooting the VEPR? How is the accuracy compared to an Arsenal SGL31? I understand the mags are proprietary and you're limited to 5 and 10 round mags, which is a bit of a bummer, but it's a cool looking little carbine.

I have an SGL31-84 and it's very accurate. If you want all the benefits of an AKM style rifle with little recoil then go with a 5.45.
 
I was looking around on Atlanticfirearms.com and I saw one called the Sporter Classic by IO. Is this IO a good version of the ak? What would be the negative or positives to it? Also If I was to buy the Arsenal how much would it cost to get wood replacements on the gun and where would I have to go to get them? Would the job be easy or require a gunsmith? Thanks again for all the help!
 
The IO is ok. Nothing special. I personally wouldn't get one. About the same quality as interarms, I.E. a bit better than Century.

A quality wood stock set would be about $100. You can look on some Russian surplus sites, forums like AKfiles and akforum. The stocks are easy to switch out.
 
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