45-70

I have a Handi Rifle receiver and both the 45-70 and 500 S&W barrels along with about 6 others. After shooting the 500 S&W barrel with Buffalo Bore ammo I bought a Limb Saver universal grind to fit recoil pad. I put it on and fit it to the stock. I would say that it was about a 500% improvement over the stock recoil pad. It seems like I was shooting the 308 barrel using the old recoil pad when shooting the 650 grain 500S&W full house loads now. This is a NEF upgrade worth doing IMHO for any of the heavy hitting calibers to save getting whacked on the shoulder.

fallout mike: My Son and I are 45-70 die hard fans. We both have a 1895CW Marlin 45-70 to shoot Cowboy Action shoots with. Our load is a light one for I am getting more recoil sencitive as I get older. Our load is 35grs of IMR 3031 and a 405 gr LFN bullet, at about 1350 fps I don`t have a croney using the books figures. This load is very accurate for us in our Marlins. We went Pig hunting in NE Texas and took the 45-70`s but I packed the light reloads in stead of the COR-BON`S and GARRET`S, and could not find any 45-70 ammo in the little town where we were hunting. So we had to use what I packed, my Son was a little put out with me. But we both had 2 pigs down the first afternoon & evening and finished with 4 Pigs a peice befor we have to go home. Never had to look very far for our Pigs, most of the time they laid where they were hit, full pentration on all of them. All shot at a 100yds or less. Since then I have hunted with it several times and had the same results each time. If recoil is a problem, which it is for me. You might try this load for your self, it won`t beat you up. GOOD LUCK TO YOU: ken

Try AA 5744 for reduced loads as it was designed for the large cased black powder cartridges.

I also shoot an H&R Handi-Rifle in 45-70. My 45-70 load is almost exactly the same as yours: H4198 with 300 gr. Hornady jacketed soft-point bullet. I worked up loads; 5 each, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, & 55 gr. and shot them over my chronograph.
When I got to the 55 gr. load, my average velocity was right at 2300 fps. But, the punishment was much more brutal than it had been a couple of loadings prior. Yes, the accuracy was good, but not as good as it was with 52 and 53 gr.
I backed down and settled on 53 gr. That first group at 100 yds printed 3 shots in 1", 4 in 1.25", and averaged 2200 fps; 400-500 fps over the factory loads I had used previously, including the Hornady Leverevolution.

There is absolutely no reason to run that rifle/cartridge to max loadout.

Go to a low-mid 30's load of the IMR4198 (Trapdoor doing mid-1,600's);
or even better, 29-30gr of AA5744 at ~1,300fps

It will still kill everything in front of the muzzle that walks on this continent.
....and might even be fun to shoot again.

I have a handi rifle 45/70 that weights 6.75 pounds and has a hard as a rock recoil pad 1.5" x 4.75". With a starting trapdoor load of 405 gr 1750 fps, it kicked me harder than I want to ever be kicked again.

I can shoot my 9.25 pound 338 win Mag with 250 gr at 2600 fps all day. It has an untrimmed grind to fit large limbsaver recoil pad.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=18220/Product/LIMBSAVER-trade-GRIND-TO-FIT-PADS
I do not grind anymore, because I want the extra area. If a guy does not want to look a the reveal, cover it with a cheek rest
http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Company-Buttstock-Shell-Holder/dp/B00162JKH0/
A lot of my magnum rifles are growing these big butts.


Lately I have been reducing the 45/70 case capacity with metal fillers.
I use these 150 gr .458" cast bullets
http://www.westernbullet.com/ly4gr6.html
With 1 gr Red Dot I get 400 fps.
It is like shooting a big BB gun.

Its a handi rifle. He's been shooting leverevolution. He uses it for deer. He wants to stay with the load bc of its accuracy. I was just wondering why the recoil was so heavy.

Click to expand...

If he is having you load in that brass then that may be your problem as the lever evolution brass is shorter than standard brass and you are likely way up on pressure. I would double check just to make sure.

...leverevolution. He uses it for deer. He wants to stay with the load bc of its accuracy. I was just wondering why the recoil was so heavy.

Click to expand...

I still believe the [OP]'s overloaded beyond intended/SAAMI spec/factory.

Look at Hornady's 8th for the 325gt/F45014-FTX. Hornady is very specific as to how the
bullet/cartridge is to be loaded -- including case trim length and cartridge OAL. 47.9gr/IMR4198 is
MAX@`95 Marlin & the like, and would be the limit they'd load it for factory sales (if even that for fear
of some nut sticking it in a trapdoor)

Likewise Hornady's conventional case-length loadout for their 300gr #4500HP -- Max'd at 48.7gr/4198


**
QuickLoad is telling me that that Barnes 300FN w/ Hornady's max of 48.7gr/4198 is hitting
36,000psi/2,120fps for a 22" barrel -- dead in agreement w/ the Hornady manual and
`95 Marlin pressure standards.

57gr/4198 exceeds 55,300psi. (extending the COAL to 2.650 still hits ~49,000)
Believe it.

45-70 ammo meant for leverguns should not exceed 40,000 CUP (not 40,000 PSI) so some of those loads above are way too hot for a levergun.

I load everything to Trapdoor limits (no more than 28,000 CUP) just to be sure something too hot doesn't find it's way into my old Trapdoor.

I'm still a huge fan of a 405gr LRNFP bullet @ right around 1400 fps to 1500 fps. I feel no more velocity is necessary for that caliber and bullet combination.

+1

OP's way overloaded.
(as an aside, ANSI Stds appear to match 28,000psi <--> 28,000CUP side-by-side for the 45-70)**
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf

**
(original trapdoor CUP/psi matchup for the 45-70 comes from ANSI Stds 2299.4-1992, p17 & p21)

try pachmeyer magnum decelerator pad,also

I was just curious about the amount of recoil . . . .

Click to expand...

Notwithstanding any all/manuals, you are overloaded by at 1½-2x pressure from commercial/ANSI 45-70 loading standards.

45-70 is a very pleasant big bore... until loaded to it's real capability in modern actions.
Like kittens, they then grow up to be Cats.

For that reason -- from David to Goliath -- it's a very versatile cartridge for a reloader.




postscript:
People are going to note that the big brother 45's (458WinMag, etc) are much (much) stouter in the
½mv² arena and can also be loaded down to trapdoor levels (which I did for many years). But then
they are also much (much) heavier to lug around.

I have a Winchester 1886, in 45-70, that I load for. I use the Hornady FTX 325gr bullet, H- 4198 at 46.9 grains, with Federal Match LR primers. Although a bit stout, it feeds well in my lever action, and shoots much flatter that the 405 gr buller. It also shoot accurately in my rifle.