Another chance to play ambassador to England

SSN Vet · Oct 9, 2012

This is the second time now that I've taken an English citizen to the range...

A "chap" my wife worked with long ago visited us over the weekend, while making a series of business trips. He had just come from a conference in Texas where a guy accidentaly handed him his CCW permit instead of his business card. Our freind says to us... "only in Texas". To which I have to reply, "well, actually.... not 'only' in Texas"

So we stay up late talking politics, business and religion... and since we were hitting all the taboo topics we 'took a shot' at gun control. Based on our conversation, I gleened the following:

1. The English appear to trust their government much more than we do in the States.
2. The English have become accustomed to fees and taxes on every aspect of life (gas is ~$10/gal).
3. Our friend beleives that there is much less violent crime in England due to gun control, and generally supports it.
4. The UK has had a "post 9/11" security mind set for the past half century, as a result of their long conflict with the IRA.

I couldn't help quipping that "America is where Liberty is... Liberty is not certified safe or risk free" and in general he agreed that Americans have more freedoms in some areas than they do in the UK.

So the next day, my wife suggests that we go to the range (bless her soul

) and I figure that since handguns are banned in the UK, that's what we should shoot... and pack up a 1911 and a .357 revolver.

I always start wtih a safety brief and a basic description of how the mechanisms function and then coached our friend through grip, stance, sight picture, etc... He was enthusiastic, though very nervous. His hands were visably shaking when he first handled the handguns and and I feared he was going to have a coronary, when the first shot was fired (from several stations down). I think he was especially surprised to see my wife shoot.

By the time we knocked off, he was smiling from ear to ear (of course). We treated him to steaks on the grill and then he was off to his next destination that evening. I was a little surprised (and amused) that he had pictures of his gun handling posted on FB the next morning

And appears to now be the envy of all his "mates".

bergmen · Oct 9, 2012

What a great story! Good on you for how you orchestrated this and the care you took to make sure your guest was informed and as comfortable as possible. Rest assured, he will tell this story to many of his friends when he gets back home and this will probably be the lead story of all of his experiences in America.

I had a similar experience with a group of co-workers from Stockholm, Sweden. Long guns are tolerated there but only because of a long tradition of hunting. Handguns are very tightly controlled.

We had a group of four for a week visit and we entertained them in a different venue each night they were here (gourmet BBQ here, baseball game there, etc.). I came up with the idea of training the group to shoot handguns and taking them as guests to our club range.

Long story short, this is the one thing they HAD to do on subsequent visits, everything else came secondary. Ronny (who I worked closest with) was seriously anti-gun at the beginning and thought us American gun owners were a part of the violence problem, not any part of a solution.

On his last visit, the ONLY stores he and his associate stopped in were gun stores between here and the San Francisco Airport (3 hour drive south). He even tried to go through official channels to be able to bring a GLock 19 back with him (absolutely no luck). This was as complete of a 180 degree turn-around as I have experienced.

Patience and de-mystifying are the keys here along with teaching knowledgable safety and handling techniques.

Ronny has made attempts to "justify" some business reason for a return trip but so far has been unsuccessful.

Dan

SSN Vet · Oct 9, 2012

First hand experience does take the mystery out of a subject and debunk a lot of myths...

When we stayed up late yacking... he wasn't opposed to guns, but he was very much shocked at the thought of storing both a gun and it's ammunition in a private residence at the same time

My only reply was that they weren't good for much without the ammo.

The next day, though I tried to be discrete, I couldn't pack up the 1911 without popping my gun vault open and pulling it out (in condition 1), while he stood there in the kitchen sipping his tea.

Al Thompson · Oct 9, 2012

Good on you. Several years back, one of the Air Force guys from Shaw came into the LGS where I worked and brought his British father-in-law. Poor guy (FIL) was shocked by the fact that folks could just up and purchase actual, you know, guns!

ATBackPackin · Oct 9, 2012

It's amazing how much one's perspective can change with a little first hand experience. Sounds like all three of you had a good time.

Bullet Bob · Oct 9, 2012

Good for you, but whenever I see posts where someone took another person shooting for the first time, I almost always have to wonder - doesn't anyone have a .22 anymore?

ZekeLuvs1911s · Oct 9, 2012

.22? What's that? Do they even exist anymore?

sidheshooter · Oct 10, 2012

SSN Vet · Oct 10, 2012

doesn't anyone have a .22 anymore?

This particular fella has shot rifles b4 when he was in school.... so I'm assuming he's probably shot a .22 or something similar.

My idea was to give him the opportunity to do something that he can't do in the UK.

Trent · Oct 10, 2012

Well done!

Now if we could get the rest of the British Subjects over here for "re-education" training they might stand a snowball's chance of getting their totalitarian laws reversed.

Blackstone · Oct 10, 2012

Not all of us subjects of the Crown need to be "re-educated"

Trent · Oct 10, 2012

Blackstone;

Just curious, and as it relates to the OP where he said the gentleman was posting pics of him shooting on facebook...

Does social media currently play a large role in your pro-gun movement across the pond?

I've had really good luck here in the states. After I re-posted the "granny defends herself against 5 armed assailants" video to Facebook earlier, I saw (within the hour) that several of my friends up north in the anti-gun Chicago region had reposted it to their walls. In an hour's time, another pro-gun message had reached all of my friends, all of THEIR friends, and who knows how many more from there.

Social media can give grassroots efforts some "teeth."

Blackstone · Oct 10, 2012

In my experience, the social media movement here is incredibly week. A lot of people are wary about what they put on their Facebook because guns just aren't accepted here. There's the fear that if the wrong sort of people see photos of you shooting, they can be twisted in a way to be used against you. Shooting is treated like an underground activity here and it's tragic.

prestpat · Oct 10, 2012

I had a similar experience about a month ago. A female friend of mine is dating a fellow from England, and he was visiting for the first time. We were all out having a drink one night, and they mentioned that they had planned to go shooting with her brother, but something had come up. I said that I was thinking about going the next day if they wanted to come along. He got all excited and started asking me questions about what sort of guns I had, etc.

The next day, I pulled out all the stops. He said he'd been skeet shooting before, but I knew that he had no access whatsoever to handguns, so I brought all of mine plus several rifles. I brought lots of ammo and every kind of target I could think of. I touched on a couple of safety rules and let him have at it. We shot for hours! I had as much fun at the range as I've had in a while, and he had an absolute ball. He took a particular shine to my Beretta 92 and Winchester 9422, to the point where he now wants to go through the process and get one for himself.

It was an expensive trip in terms of ammo spent, and I had a lot of guns to clean, but it was well worth it. He wasn't anti-gun before we went, but you could tell the experience really made a believer out of him. Sharing our rights with someone that doesn't have them can be a truly rewarding experience.

Browning Guy · Oct 10, 2012

I remember years ago when a business associate of a friend was in town. He too was from "Jolly Ole" and had no shooting experience. We were getting together a group of friends for a Black Powder shoot. He came out and had a blast. We had him shoot everything from a matchlock to a caplock Hawkins rifle and a Ruger Old Army. The two he was most interested in was the Brown Bess and a late 1700's flint longrifle. He shot both many times, and was suprised at the accuracy difference. One thing he couldn't get over was a bunch of "regular" guys just walking out into the back 40 and shooting all we wanted to. We told him we also shot trap there on occasion. When he left he said he was going to check on black powder regs when he got home and see if he could get into it also.

treg · Oct 11, 2012

Good for you ambassador SSN Vet!

I had a similar experience with some Chinese visitors of my neighbors. They were walking down the road (very rural setting) taking pics and trying to take it all in as I rode by on my horse. I stopped to say hi and they noticed the .44 on my hip. One thing led to another and they each got to fire a cylinder full. Quite an experience for them.

Cosmoline · Oct 11, 2012

Great stuff! I recently got a chance to take an Aussie shooting. Ironically he was a fellow I meant on line arguing about the Second Amendment. I kid you not. It was the old Michael Moore board, years ago. We got to know each other after the dust settled and that board went away. What a world we live in, eh?

I started him on single shot rifles, and moved through the handguns more or less historically. He did remarkably well. Better than the New Yorker who was also visiting.

Ignition Override · Oct 11, 2012

Blackstone:
Recently I read on THR or a similar site that the UK had a serious shortage of personal rifles in 1940.

Some US govt. dept. started asking people here to donate various civilian rifles (via Roosevelt's Lend Lease Act etc), just in case the Germans decided to launch operation Seelowe (see lion) across the Channel.

At the local Shelby Farms recreation area, an attractive (married) English lady worked in a small office in the Ranger Station. About two years ago I told her that gun shows take place less than two miles away at the Agricenter.
Her response was not expected: the shocked, or slightly frightened look was something which I can't quite describe. She told me about legislation in Parliament which would require age 21 etc to be able to buy a knife.

Calibre44 · Oct 12, 2012

Ignition Override wrote: She told me about legislation in Parliament which would require age 21 etc to be able to buy a knife.

No It is illegal for any shop to sell a knife of any kind (including cutlery and kitchen knives) to anyone under the age of 18 not 21.

It is a crime to carry a knife in public without good reason (sadly self-defence isn’t one of them) although knives with folding blades, like Swiss Army knives, are not illegal as long as the blade is three inches long (7.62 cm) or less.

However, if any knife is used in a threatening way (even a legal knife, such as a Swiss Army knife), it is regarded as an 'offensive weapon' by the law and you can find yourself in a court.

Crap isn’t it?

Trent · Oct 12, 2012

Wow. Even in Illinois, where we can't carry guns legally, we can carry full length swords if we want.

Another chance to play ambassador to England

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