M2 Carbine
member
I favor a Remington 55 grain soft point reload in my HD AR.
Actually this is out of a 11 inch barrel Kel Tec PLR. The 45 is a Gold Dot.
Actually this is out of a 11 inch barrel Kel Tec PLR. The 45 is a Gold Dot.
AR15 home defense ammo
- Thread starter breakingcontact
- Start date
- Status
Funny how this always boils down to a big fan club of open tip expanding bullets, vs something military.
Better to determine what you will be likely shooting at in a HD situation in your home. Intruders? The auto pistol in a police caliber and load is the better answer, because you will be wearing it more comfortably, more often, than looking around for where you stashed the rifle. You might likely need the pistol to get to the rifle, too.
Most HD situations are two-three shots fired and the perps leave. The few others are always complicated by other facts: 1) you stole their drugs and they are going to kill your for it, 2) you stole their woman and they are going to kill you for it, 3) you are so rich and in denial about your self defense skills the perps are going to take your loot and could likely kill you for it.
Anything to do with the last three, you should fix it, first, and that will keep their attention diverted elsewhere. Deliberately attracting their attention is exactly the wrong thing to do.
So, long before anyone needs to figure out what gun or ammo, they need to clean up their act and figure out what they are doing either living in that neighborhood, or attracting the wrong kind of attention. Then - spend the money to move.
Better to determine what you will be likely shooting at in a HD situation in your home. Intruders? The auto pistol in a police caliber and load is the better answer, because you will be wearing it more comfortably, more often, than looking around for where you stashed the rifle. You might likely need the pistol to get to the rifle, too.
Most HD situations are two-three shots fired and the perps leave. The few others are always complicated by other facts: 1) you stole their drugs and they are going to kill your for it, 2) you stole their woman and they are going to kill you for it, 3) you are so rich and in denial about your self defense skills the perps are going to take your loot and could likely kill you for it.
Anything to do with the last three, you should fix it, first, and that will keep their attention diverted elsewhere. Deliberately attracting their attention is exactly the wrong thing to do.
So, long before anyone needs to figure out what gun or ammo, they need to clean up their act and figure out what they are doing either living in that neighborhood, or attracting the wrong kind of attention. Then - spend the money to move.
waffentomas
Member
My Colt has the Nosler 64gr Bonded PPT over 26gr of Varget.
If that don't work I have a side-by-side loaded with Herter's Dual Ball load. Two shots of two .65 caliber 450gr lead balls.
If that don't work I have a side-by-side loaded with Herter's Dual Ball load. Two shots of two .65 caliber 450gr lead balls.
Disagree. Use what is reliable and accurate first, at close range (across the room) all 5.56 is pretty equal.
Every test of good old M193 shows that at CLOSE range, it's a pretty darn good round. Fragmenting, busting glass, not penetrating as many wall boards as 9mm etc etc.
Having a bullet that expands instead of fragments = what I want in a HUNTING bullet ie penetration. Some lightweight 'varmint' loads MIGHT (and again at 20 feet unlikely) create a 'cratering wound' that looks nasty but doesn't STOP the threat.
if ALL I had was a 5.56/.223 rifle, that's what I'd put in it.
Infidel4life11
Member
I don't have kids and in my HD "plan" in the onset my wife goes into our bedroom closet/armory and I go through the house with the AR. SO with that said and some personal exp I use good ol green tip m855........ lately TAP has been getting my favor but I can't afford to shoot it as much as I shoot monthly so I just stick with the green tip. Please keep in mind firing an AR in the house without ear pro is pretty horrible in it own I threw up afterwards.
allaroundhunter
Member
You really should use standard M193 instead of 855. The 855 does not tumble and fragment like other 5.55 rounds due to its construction. Instead it more zips through a fairly cleanly (compared to other offerings). The military even noted this problem with it when compared to M193.
regarding m193, it is fine, but you should read the links on page one. There are a lot of people doing gel tests. The M193 does fine, but there are a lot better bullets for home def and duty.
The MK262, MK318, BH 50gr TSX, Honrady 75gr TAP and many quality 62-64gr soft points all perform much better in gel. There is a reason why many departments and agencies are going to these types of ammo.
I personally like the idea of a heavy OTM. It penetrates cloathing well, less penetration of walls, much more energy, much better cavity and it cavitates much quicker.
If i needed to shoot through walls or car doors, i would use the BH 50gr TSX.
scroll down this link until you get to "Why not M193/M855?"
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
The MK262, MK318, BH 50gr TSX, Honrady 75gr TAP and many quality 62-64gr soft points all perform much better in gel. There is a reason why many departments and agencies are going to these types of ammo.
I personally like the idea of a heavy OTM. It penetrates cloathing well, less penetration of walls, much more energy, much better cavity and it cavitates much quicker.
If i needed to shoot through walls or car doors, i would use the BH 50gr TSX.
scroll down this link until you get to "Why not M193/M855?"
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm
despite what commentors on youtube videos might think, to kill most trees, you would have to strip the bark around the entire tree. A few holes in one side will not kill the tree...it might make some more prone to infestation, but certainly will not kill them outright.
I run 62gr HPs in my AR. They are the FBI rounds that were surplused a while back. While in gel tests penetration was on the lower end, the expansion was fairly large. This is my first-line choice. If I need more then 30 rounds, the next 6 mags are 64gr SPs and 75gr OTMs.
Geronimo45
Member
I use Prvi M193 - because that's what I actually have, and the stuff has been accurate and reliable. I don't want to have a 'self defense' load that I haven't shot a few full mags of.
I wanted to get the 70-something grain Black Hills stuff, but it vanished in the post-election buying frenzy, so I haven't been able to acquire any yet. Hornady TAP also seems highly recommended.
I wanted to get the 70-something grain Black Hills stuff, but it vanished in the post-election buying frenzy, so I haven't been able to acquire any yet. Hornady TAP also seems highly recommended.
Geronimo, look for the SSA 77gr OTM. It is very similar to the Black Hills 77 OTM. The SSA had a few good reviews. Also the Colt 77gr OTM is made by Black Hills and is the same load as the black hills MK262.
The 75gr Hornady TAP is on my list to try out. Lots of great reviews out about it.
The 75gr Hornady TAP is on my list to try out. Lots of great reviews out about it.
Hornady 75gr TAP FPD is currently loaded in my HD AR.
The first spare magazine is Black Hills 77gr OTM (mk262), which is what I would put into the rifle if I was going somewhere with it.
Other spare mags are mostly M193 or M855, one with Winchester Ranger RA556B (FBI load).
With the same zero and POA, the POI for each is within the area of a thoracic cavity out to 100 yards.
RE: SSA 'mk262'. I have some of it and the Black Hills actuall mk262. I much prefer the Black Hills as it isn't much more (if not the same price practically) but has sealed primers and tar sealed case mouth, the SSA does not.
The first spare magazine is Black Hills 77gr OTM (mk262), which is what I would put into the rifle if I was going somewhere with it.
Other spare mags are mostly M193 or M855, one with Winchester Ranger RA556B (FBI load).
With the same zero and POA, the POI for each is within the area of a thoracic cavity out to 100 yards.
RE: SSA 'mk262'. I have some of it and the Black Hills actuall mk262. I much prefer the Black Hills as it isn't much more (if not the same price practically) but has sealed primers and tar sealed case mouth, the SSA does not.
ObsceneJesster
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2011
- Messages
- 266
A lightweight carbine is the first firearm I'd grab if it came down to it. Right now it's loaded with M193 but I'm open to other rounds. It's just what I know
For those who are using M855 (Green Tip) , I'd probably switch to something else. In Iraq , it was revealed pretty quickly that M855 doesn't really work well when shooting at someone who isn't wearing any body armor. In some cases, it took over 5 rounds to bring one of them down. Most of the insurgents were high on speed, PCP and Cocaine and it would sometimes take a head shot to stop them.
After switching to M193, it proved to be a much more effective round against drug crazed individuals not wearing body armor. The same kind of individual you're likely to encounter in a home defense situation.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
For those who are using M855 (Green Tip) , I'd probably switch to something else. In Iraq , it was revealed pretty quickly that M855 doesn't really work well when shooting at someone who isn't wearing any body armor. In some cases, it took over 5 rounds to bring one of them down. Most of the insurgents were high on speed, PCP and Cocaine and it would sometimes take a head shot to stop them.
After switching to M193, it proved to be a much more effective round against drug crazed individuals not wearing body armor. The same kind of individual you're likely to encounter in a home defense situation.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Geronimo45
Member
That's why they have 30rd mags.
That's why they have 30rd mags.
No, that's why they stopped using M193 and M855 for combat, in favor of better performing rounds. That's why they developed the 318 the mk262 the 855A1, etc
plouffedaddy
Member
My current HD ammo is 75gr 223 TAP. It's done pretty well in just about every test I've seen; including mine below.
ObsceneJesster
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2011
- Messages
- 266
As you should. I'm sure there are much better rounds for home defense/self defense. I don't understand how stating M193 is better for self defense than M855 equates to M193 being the end all be all of self defense rounds. M193 is nothing more than a versatile combat round. It's capable of shooting through glass or other light barriers without a ton of fragmentation or massive velocity loss.
It's nothing more than a Jack of all Trades, Master of None.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
C-grunt
Member
My department uses Federal Tactical 55 grain hollopoints and in shootings it tends to drop bad guys like they were struck by lightning. We even had a shooting happen at 324 (I believe that's the correct number) yards and it was effective.
On a different note.... M855 doesn't just zip right through people. Under certain circumstances, ie certain lots and certain rifles, the M855 has a late yaw. Usually around 7-11 inches. This is a complete pass through on many hits. However most of the time it yaws early and takes down bad guys effectively.
Also I have never seen or known anyone whose unit switched back to M193.
On a different note.... M855 doesn't just zip right through people. Under certain circumstances, ie certain lots and certain rifles, the M855 has a late yaw. Usually around 7-11 inches. This is a complete pass through on many hits. However most of the time it yaws early and takes down bad guys effectively.
Also I have never seen or known anyone whose unit switched back to M193.
In fairness, a lot of the problems users have experienced with M193 against human threats have been a combination of one or more of the following:
thin/small adversary
short barrel (M4)
velocity loss due to range
That said, it's just too easy to use expanding ammunition as a citizen defending your domicile. SP or HP ammunition is easy to find, and often as cheap, or cheaper, than M193. When I bought the Federal American Eagle years ago, it was the cheapest domestic .223/5.56mm ammo I could find.
John
thin/small adversary
short barrel (M4)
velocity loss due to range
That said, it's just too easy to use expanding ammunition as a citizen defending your domicile. SP or HP ammunition is easy to find, and often as cheap, or cheaper, than M193. When I bought the Federal American Eagle years ago, it was the cheapest domestic .223/5.56mm ammo I could find.
John
Of late I have been testing 55 Sierra Game King HPs and 50 and 62 Barnes TSX bullets for reliability and accuracy. I am relying on others testing these rounds and results have shown good fragmentation (SGKs) and auto glass penetration (TSXs). I would keep mags loaded with each...
M
M
Arkansas Paul
Member
Ballistic tips are basically hollow points with a polymer insert that they claim "initiates expansion". Same principle, one just has the polymer tip and one doesn't.
yep. i'll defer to docGKR on terminal ballistics, but i still like to shoot a round i can afford to use when training. i have untold thousands of rounds of m193 fired and know how reliable it is. i can't afford to run SOST or TAP or any of the cool stuff in volume.
however, when i switched to a 10" SBR, i also switched to using 75g OTM. No real idea how effective it would be but i am confident i can get hits with it and quickly.
- Status
