The forgotton 32 auto

The main problem I have with Europes police standard caliber (for about a century) is the slides are so hard for me to pull back, even with 100 year old recoil springs. I like the caliber, and looking at my Savage 1907 on .32 ASP - Savage wasn't going to call it the .32 ACP - it is the size of Rugers LCP 9mm. Of course it is all steel, even the grips. Still works fine. Mag holds 10 rounds. MY KT P32 is tough to cycle, too. I think European cops wanted to make sure you got to court, ergo the popularity of the 32.

Wow, Eb1...what was the bullet weight on that .32, do you know?

This is Mama's Colt '03 .32...



Built in 1930 I'd bet it hadn't had more than a few rounds put thru it in it's life time...mostly laid in someone's dresser drawer is my guess. My Wife loves it and although I wish she could handle something a bit stiffer and more powerful she can triple tap with this in less than a second and at 21' I can cover the group with one hand. No .45 acp "knockdown power" but I feel confident that she can defend herself with this pistol.

She keeps it loaded with my hand loads and 3 of those to the chest will work. 4 to 8 of them for good measure delivered as needed...the cool thing about the gun and the round/caliber is that she is confident she can hit with it and hit where she wants the bullets to go. That's as good as we can make it.

We'll end up with at least one more Model M. I want to find one that is mechanically perfect/sound that the finish has been trashed and do it up in Cerakote with better, bigger sights. Just because.

VooDoo

O KAY. 357's and far more powerful rds to the chest have failed ( quite a bit, actually) but you are "confident" that 3 rds of .32 to the chest will suffice. What makes you so sure that she will do better than one rd to the gut? Most people, when under actual lethal attack, miss the entire man, repeatedly, at 10 ft or less. The .32 pistol has less power than a .22 rifle, if that rifle is using one of the hypervelocity loads (ie, 160 ft lbs). That's nothing to be sanquine about, I assure you.

its just the latest hype is for the .380acp in the same sized guns..... in time some will revert back to the .32acp when they discover the .380acp bites a bit more on the shooter's hand....

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Or not, once they consider that in the same size pistol it will bite the target about 50% harder.

Love these old relics but definitely last resort for me to actually use.

I have a cz50 in .32- heavy gun with no real recoil. Not reliable eough and to heavy for carry.

Also a Beretta Tomcat which I do carry. It is the best for pocket carry in the summer shorts weather. In the larger small guns like a sig 230, ppk or FN/Browning 1910 there is no reason to even consider the .32 vs the .380.

So right.

today, we have 9mm's that are smaller and lighter than the old colt .32. So why would you settle for 100 ft lbs of power, when you can have 400 ft lbs of power? A pocket 9mm is plenty feeble enough. You can always get wussier reloads, for practice or even for ccw.

1903 Model M Colt

I really like the Model M design. The 1903 Model (.32 ACP) had 554,446 manufactured, and provided a goodly supply to choose from.

On the other hand, the 1908 Model (.380 ACP) was more scarce, since only 134,499 were made.

I like the '03, but have never owned one. I do own an '08, since it is rarer, and I am one of the "die hards" that believe the .380 punches a bigger and more powerful hole than the .32 .

Either the '03 or '08 can convert to the "other" caliber, by switching barrels and mags.

C'est la Guerre ! C'est la Vie ! "Man, they're really sailin' " !!!!

I'm assuming that most students and aficionados of the .32 acp have at least seen if not studied Brassfetchers data. I relied heavily on this information when developing and testing my own .32 acp loads...mostly trying to disprove some/most of this information.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Introduction to .32ACP Terminal Performance 06MAY11.pdf

Actually I succeeded in confirming a lot of this data and consider it to be one of the more authoritative collections of data on a limited number of modern .32 acp ammunition. Worth a read or a skim concerning the degree of superiority of the .380 over the .32 acp. Interesting even if you reject the validity of the information and performance in this report.

VooDoo

I don't feel under powered when I occasionally carry my Kel-Tec P 32.
However I do carry my LCP far more.
All that being said I can consistently shoot the P32 more accurately than the harder recoiling .380 LCP.
My P32 is a joy to shoot.
It would be nice to have a larger .32 ACP pistol with decent sights to plink with.

heeler said:

I don't feel under powered when I occasionally carry my Kel-Tec P 32.
However I do carry my LCP far more.
All that being said I can consistently shoot the P32 more accurately than the harder recoiling .380 LCP.
My P32 is a joy to shoot.
It would be nice to have a larger .32 ACP pistol with decent sights to plink with.

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Ever thought about getting the Kel-Tec P32 10 rd. mag ? It gives a lot better grip, and control, and feels like a larger gun. You wouldn't believe the improved difference it makes.

How can one's first handgun bought last December be forgotten? It's kind of cool to have one of the types -"serial# 3rd mil. variation"- which were issued to German Fallschirmjager (paratroopers).
Mine was liberated from a German/Austrian nurse or medic.

If you know the shape of the Sig 230/232, you know the general looks of the WW2 Sauer 38H. They were only mfg. from '38-'45 then never mfg. again. Even the Walther PPK which Sauer copied had No decocker.

The German .32 acp ammo used then was reportedly stronger than our modern ammo.
It's too bad that our ammo prices are so much higher than what 9mm Luger costs.

Jim K: Those are excellent points, and not many of the larger types are easily carried in a windbreaker pocket during a jog. Probably left in the car, or at home.

I'd like to add an old Colt 1903 or an FN Model 1910 to the collection, but I'm not much on it as a defensive cartridge.

Another Seecamp owner here; I have not forgotten the .32 ACP.

I have several 32 revolvers and one 32 pistol that I enjoy shooting. My little Seecamp is a real Jewel. As to its power, one has to remember that one Gavrilo Princip a Serb, killed Arch duke Ferdinand and his wife at 10:30AM and both died. He was shot once in the neck and slumped over and died quickly, she was shot in the abdomen and died a few minutes later. Two shots and 2 killed at 9 feet distance. Shot placement is more important in pistols than the caliber.

Sauer 38H

Ignition Override said:

How can one's first handgun bought last December be forgotten? It's kind of cool to have one of the types -"serial# 3rd mil. variation"- which were issued to German Fallschirmjager (paratroopers).
Mine was liberated from a German/Austrian nurse or medic.

If you know the shape of the Sig 230/232, you know the general looks of the WW2 Sauer 38H. They were only mfg. from '38-'45 then never mfg. again. Even the Walther PPK which Sauer copied had No decocker.

The German .32 acp ammo used then was reportedly stronger than our modern ammo.
It's too bad that our ammo prices are so much higher than what 9mm Luger costs.

Jim K: Those are excellent points, and not many of the larger types are easily carried in a windbreaker pocket during a jog. Probably left in the car, or at home.

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Yes, I like this one too. Very unique! Also liked the Mauser HsC in .32 or .380. Too high for my budget now. I spend all my extras on : food, clothing,and shelter!

I just wanted to add this to the mix about the .32 acp. It seems to be common Internet Fact that the .380 acp is the absolute minimum caliber for self defense and that the .32 is largely useless comparatively...hence we have forgotten the .32 while the .380 and tiny pistols that are chambered for it are selling briskly while little or no new .32 pistols are being developed.

This from the .pdf on Terminal Performance of the .32 acp by Brassfetcher:

"At its greatest difference, the .380ACP Hydra-Shok transfers 23 ft-lbf and the .32ACP XTP transfers 6 ft-lbf. For a sense of what the difference between the two extremes, 17 ft-lbf, is equivalent to, consider that a typical 40gr lead round nose .22LR leaves the muzzle of a rifle with a kinetic energy of 100 ft-lbf.

In other words, the maximum difference in kinetic energy transfer (to the vital tissues) between a typical .32ACP and .380ACP JHP is 17% that of a mild .22LR load. As tested, we see no significant difference in lethality between the .32ACP and .380ACP cartridges (fired from a 2.7” barrel)"

The difference in the .32 ACP and the .380 is insignificant in terms of lethality and use as a SD round. For me, I prefer to carry the .32 ACP as a back up or when I cannot have a larger pistol due to this information and also due to the fact that a similar sized .32 yields faster/more accurate follow ups than a comparable pistol in .380.

VooDoo

My Manurhin 32 PP police trade in and Walther PPK 32s are fun and pleasant to shoot. I have not used either for EDC or as a BUG, but I feel comfortable in being able to put rounds on target shoud the need arise. For now, they are fun range guns....

Vodoun da Vinci, Thank you for the good info from Brassfetcher. This is the " Stuff" that interests me the most with science research data too back it up. Snoop

Even though I like my little Seecamp 32, I too would like a 3.5" barrel polymer frame 32 pistol , with a locked breach.

It seems to be common Internet Fact that the .380 acp is the absolute minimum caliber for self defense and that the .32 is largely useless comparatively

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Internet says it all. You get armchair based post(s) done with anonymity by folks with little or no real world experience to back it up. They are fairly easy to pick up on, especially when their statement of last resort is to quote the "opinion" of some writer or similar source. Which in itself is just someone else's opinion. A lot of the experts have never had their personal qualifications examined beyond their ability to make a living jockeying a keyboard.

Bigger, more powerful is a no brainer... A .12 gauge slug definitely has more thump than a .25. But the bottom line is that the full range of calibers can be effective with proper shot placement. No caliber is a guaranteed one shot stopper - especially handgun cartridges. The .32 has been around since 1899 and has seen a wide range of service. There are better choices today - but if it were not effective, it wouldn't have lasted for 115 years.

.32 ACP vs .380 ACP & More.....

A person can choose his/her ammo ballistics, all sorts of ways. We all get to decide which is best for us. Isn't that great ?

I looked up some muzzle velocity & energy statistics in The Shooter's Bible - 102st Edition (2010), as follows :
.32 ACP highest vel. 1000 fps ; highest energy 133 ft. lbs. (60 grain bullet)
.380ACP highest vel.1200 fps ; highest energy 223 ft. lbs. (77 grain bullet)

There was also another alternative caliber (mm), 9x18mm Makarov:
highest vel. 1000 fps. ; highest energy 211 ft. lbs. (95 grain bullet)

Besides the above, there are all sorts of other combinations, depending mostly on manufacturer, grains & type of powder, weight & construction of bullets.

Things never get boring, considering the choices, and with all the possible decisions the shooter has to make, meeting his/her needs.

I just looked it up, and Buffalo Bores .32acp 75gr hardcast round gives 220 ft/lbs of energy. It would penetrate very well (a tactical issue that was raised by the FBI after the Miami shootout), and do it better than a .380 round with similar energy, do to the .32's ballistic coefficient for that bullet style.

My hand loaded .32 ACP uses the same bullet that Buffalo Bore uses in their round...Rim Rocks .312 75 gr. hard cast lead flat nose. In the present incarnation I am pushing them to 1050 fps - right around 200 fpe and no signs of excess pressure. I can push them harder but have not yet done that.

When the weather warms up again and I can resume penetration and velocity testing outdoors I'm gonna pump 'em up a bit more but right now they are getting 15" - 17" of penetration in 20% ballistic gelatine. I'd guess BB's offering gets that much or more and the bullet will deform if it hits bone but not mushroom and slow down. It dumps it's energy very deep in tissue unlike some hollow points that can pass thru skin, ribs or sternum and immediately slow down. Here's a video of Buffalo Bore's 75 gr. flat nose being tested...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKDnLLUd-Y

The .32 will never be a blockbuster caliber but it *is* suitable for self defense..not the best caliber if you can handle something bigger in the recoil department and hide it/carry it but I feel very comfortable being able to put that kind of lead in the air accurately with repeated fast followups with my little Colts.

I'd really love to see some modern pistols chambered for .32 with longer barrels on the order of 3.5" - 4" as the longer barrels in a small gun would still be concealable and make much better use of the .32's limited power. I guess the release of the Glock 42 has me wishing we could get the same thing in .32 but I'm sure that is never going to happen.

Dang it.

VooDoo

I didn't think the G42 would be chambered in .32 ACP but it did have me hoping

I just looked it up, and Buffalo Bores .32acp 75gr hardcast round gives 220 ft/lbs of energy. It would penetrate very well (a tactical issue that was raised by the FBI after the Miami shootout), and do it better than a .380 round with similar energy, do to the .32's ballistic coefficient for that bullet style.

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I don't know, actual gel test show the S&B 73gr FMJ penetrating to around 14" while 380 FMJs routinely zip out the back of 18" gel blocks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haq4-W5WkoI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkscBbMGp5k