The forgotton 32 auto

[IdahoSkies]

The difference in the .32 ACP and the .380 is insignificant in terms of lethality and use as a SD round. For me, I prefer to carry the .32 ACP as a back up or when I cannot have a larger pistol due to this information and also due to the fact that a similar sized .32 yields faster/more accurate follow ups than a comparable pistol in .380.

VooDoo

This is the reason my EDC is a .32 ACP. In the same size package I get an extra round, more controllable recoil with out a real world difference in terminal ballistics. Yes on paper there is some difference, but from what I have read and seen I am going to want two rounds of each in what ever I am shooting, and I'd rather have the extra round and precision the .32 ACP gives.

I wish more folks would wake up to the fact that the .380 really should not be in a pocket gun.

 

[snooperman]

Yes, a Glock 42 in 32ACP that can handle a steady diet of Buffalo bore would be a must-have for me.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

There are a number of guns that are currently offered in .380 that would shine in .32 but the manufacturers undoubtedly feel that .32 is dead or will be ignored. The Ruger LCP, which is a wonderful gun, simply kicks too hard with hot .380. In .32 it would lose roughly 17% the energy of a mild .22 (according to the Brassfetcher data and testing I have done personally...) which is insignificant in an SD encounter and gain control ability for rapid and accurate follow ups in the hands of the inexperienced or smaller stature shooters that often buy these types of pistols for CCW.

The polymer framed Colt Mustang is another example as is the Sig Sauer P238 and others. It wouldn't cost the manufacturers of these gun squat to offer a .32 ACP version if not an option to switch back and forth like the Beretta Pico is slated to offer. If we ever see a Pico in .32 it's on the bucket list for me and Mama as well. I wonder if proponents of .32 have not been vocal enough nor aggressive enough in discussions about preferences and desire for new .32 pistols?

Certainly there are not droves eagerly wanting .32 pistols but I'd bet if they were available from Colt, Sig Sauer, Ruger, S&W, Glock and others they'd sell enough to earn their keep. The S&W Bodyguard .380 chambered in .32 would be absolutely yummy and a must have for me as well but we'll never see it. I'm still surprised at the number of Beretta Tomcats I see at the range. I'm always shocked when I sweep up brass after a range session and find .32 ACP in there with the 9mm, .380, .40, and .45 every now and then.

Somebody is shooting .32 besides me and my group of malcontents...

VooDoo

 

[SIGLBER]

I've owned two P32's an they have both been great. For the price, size, trigger, accuracy, reliability, weight they are hard to beat. Mine went bang everytime. Sold both to female friends that needed something small they could carry at work. But could shoot well. The .3's in the light weight guns are much more pleasant to shootthan the lightweight .380's. Plus you usually get a round or two extra.
According to Mas Ayoob shooting through the skullsof pigs scheduled for the slaughter house the .380's often won't penetrate the skull and the .32's will. Penetration and expansion are hard to get both out of the .32 and .380. Although the Hornady XTP .380 does a pretty good job. But you must get to vitals which means penetraion. If you use FMJ toget penetration litle difference in frontal area which does the damage between .32 and .380is small. Plus the .32 is as mentioned much easier to control. Easier to hit with
and faster follow upshots.
Habe been looking for one of those Colt '03's or '08's for awhile. Paper thin, relaible with original magazines, and accurate. Used by OSS and U.S. forces and other groups to good effect in WW II. And the Shanghi British Mandate Police to good effect earlier. It is a proven weapon.

 

[larryh1108]

It wouldn't take much for any company making .380 pocket pistols to offer a barrel for the .32ACP as well or separately. Perhaps a slightly lighter recoil spring but everything else should work as designed. Even the mags should feed both. Very little extra work needed for additional sales and profit.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Geez, I didn't think of that.....I wonder how much it would set me back to have a family member that has a machine shop and programers and such make me an exact replacement barrel for a Ruger LCP (as an example - maybe a Glock 42 or S&W Bodyguard...) in .32 ACP?

I need to check on that. If I pick the right gun I could probably produce "kits" and recover the cost of tooling up/prototype by selling them to others!

What a great idea...I'm stealin' it!

VooDoo

 

[Old Fuff]

Don't jump too fast. The breechface on a .380 is larger then a .32, so you might need a different extractor. Ejector location might be too much outboard. Possibly magazine issues.

Colt's 1908 .380 Pocket Model version of the original 1903 did have some problems, which they were very careful to not say much about until the U.S. Navy got into it. Notice they never offered a conversion kit for the Pocket Models.

On the other hand H&K did, but it included besides the internal parts a new slide, barrel, magazine(s) and recoil spring.

 

[larryh1108]

If it works out, I can be a prototype tester for you.
I have a LCP.
I am a lover of all the .32ACP offers as well.

 

[larryh1108]

I have several Llama .380s that I shoot the .32ACP out of with their .32ACP barrel (they made the same gun in both calibers). The mags interchange and the extraction is the same in both. All of them work fine with the .380 and .32 barrels.

I'm not saying all models will work flawlessly but it's worth a shot!

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

The 1910 Browning will shoot both with only a barrel swap.

 

[toivo]

Somebody is shooting .32 besides me and my group of malcontents...

Someone is. Me.

I would have like to have seen a CZ 82 in .32 ACP but it didn't happen.

Call it an 83 and voila!



Double-stack magazine holds 15 rounds of .32 ACP. I have the NY-neutered 10-round version.

They didn't import that many into the US, and now they've stopped altogether. I don't know if they're still making them for the European market.

 

[Phantom Captain]

I'm actually a really big fan and shoot my .32s quite often as well. I really love them for all the reasons people mention. Accurate, quick follow up, highly concealable, etc. etc. I carry hard cast flat nose Buffalo Bore in the PPK when I carry it and feel completely confident with the choice.

I love both of my .32s. I have a 1938 pre-war Walther PPK which I do carry in the summer at times when I want something super slim and I also have this awesome 1971 Swedish police surplus PP which is amazingly smooth. The trigger on the PP is one of the best I've shot. I like the slightly longer barrel of the PP too as it does impart more energy to the projectile. My wife also really likes the .32s as they are easy for her to rack the slide and the recoil is completely manageable. She's very confident in shooting them. She actually doesn't mind the .380 PPK/s either but does like the .32 more. She's debated carrying the PP herself.

I'm a BIG fan.

toivo, I would love to get my hands on one of those 15 round CZ-83s! I've coveted one of those for a while now!

 

[Gun Master]

Fabulous .32 ACP's

Someone is. Me.





Call it an 83 and voila!



Double-stack magazine holds 15 rounds of .32 ACP. I have the NY-neutered 10-round version.

They didn't import that many into the US, and now they've stopped altogether. I don't know if they're still making them for the European market.

Nice ! I have two of the 1st three, and they were made in the US. The other one I like, but not US made. Guess ? Of the last one, I own it also, kinda. Mine is an 82 in 9 x 18mm Mak.

 

[will11]

I carry the Kel Tec P32 in front pocket more than any other pistol I have. Even though I love my Colt .45's I feel very confident carrying the P32. The Pistol has been very reliable.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Friends, just why is it that a .380 seems to be all the rage while the 32acp is about forgotten ? There can't be much difference in power and I believe that the 32 actually penetrates a little better ? With some of the new bullet designs being what they are, why not utilize that small 32 acp you have tucked away ? Just asking ?

Well...if you honestly want a good reason, then show me where 32 acp is as easy to find as .380 acp.

Other than general perception with respect to smaller calibers of pistol ammunition, ammunition availability is a huge part of it.

 

[chicharrones]

It wouldn't take much for any company making .380 pocket pistols to offer a barrel for the .32ACP as well or separately. Perhaps a slightly lighter recoil spring but everything else should work as designed. Even the mags should feed both. Very little extra work needed for additional sales and profit.

Taurus made one in their TCP line called a 732. I have one. It has a different barrel, slide, and magazine than the .380 ACP model 738. They are easy shooting guns, but got discontinued a year or two ago.

The sad truth is that Americans just aren't buying pocket .32 ACP guns when the same size will get you a .380 ACP pocket gun.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

The sad truth is that Americans just aren't buying pocket .32 ACP guns when the same size will get you a .380 ACP pocket gun.

It's true, unfortunately. I'm really looking forward to the Beretta Pico which is slated to have a drop in .32 ACP option as I simply prefer .32 to .380 in the same/similar sized gun because I already load for .32 ACP. It is very close in terminal performance to the .380 yet easier to get fast follow ups because of the mild recoil.

But sadly I think the .32 ACP is slipping into history unless people actively start buying pistols and ammunition in this caliber and I do not see than happening as the perception is that the .32 has been superseded by the .380.

I bought a bunch of .32 ACP last Summer while working up my hand loads and saved all the brass. I have enough brass and bullets and as long as I can get powder and primers I'll have .32 for the rest of my lifetime if I only shoot 100 rounds a month or so. But it's now getting hard to find and expensive when you can - can't seem to find Fiocchi 71 gr. hardball, S&B hardball, or Wnchester White Box in .32 anywhere....I can get premium stuff like Buffalo Bore and such but spending $1.00 a round or more is just crazy talk. I save the odd range brass I find in .32 which, surprisingly, I do find on the floor at regular intervals.

VooDoo

 

[Gun Master]

Bullet Penetration & Other Effectiveness

It's true, unfortunately. I'm really looking forward to the Beretta Pico which is slated to have a drop in .32 ACP option as I simply prefer .32 to .380 in the same/similar sized gun because I already load for .32 ACP. It is very close in terminal performance to the .380 yet easier to get fast follow ups because of the mild recoil.

But sadly I think the .32 ACP is slipping into history unless people actively start buying pistols and ammunition in this caliber and I do not see than happening as the perception is that the .32 has been superseded by the .380.

I bought a bunch of .32 ACP last Summer while working up my hand loads and saved all the brass. I have enough brass and bullets and as long as I can get powder and primers I'll have .32 for the rest of my lifetime if I only shoot 100 rounds a month or so. But it's now getting hard to find and expensive when you can - can't seem to find Fiocchi 71 gr. hardball, S&B hardball, or Wnchester White Box in .32 anywhere....I can get premium stuff like Buffalo Bore and such but spending $1.00 a round or more is just crazy talk. I save the odd range brass I find in .32 which, surprisingly, I do find on the floor at regular intervals.

VooDoo

Have you done any documented or measured bullet penetration tests, especially .32 ACP and .380 ACP, with phone books, pine boards, etc. ? If so, have you done others like : .22LR, .22 MAG, 9mm (9x19), 9x18 Mak, .38 SP, .357 MAG, and .45 ACP ? I'd be interested .

 

[snooperman]

"But sadly, I think the 32 ACP is slipping into history". Well, that is what they said about the 380ACP a few years ago. Hopefully, with more and more women and elderly people with conceal carry permits, that might change. Like you, I would like to see more offerings in this caliber, like the Pico, and especially one the size of the new Glock 42. With better ammo like buffalo Bore etc, I think it changes the equation somewhat in its favor. As you mentioned before , the double tap with the 32 is a big plus as well , with stopping power being as good as or better than the 380.

 

[snooperman]

Gun Master, I have done a number of tests here at my farm range with the 32acp and 380. I have found that in soaked newspapers wadded up in cardboard boxes lined with plastic bag that the 32 acp ball ammo has more penetration than hollowpoint 380. Research done by Greg Ellifritz, an LEO, compiled much data on people being shot . He found that the 32 acp had as many stops with one shot as the 380acp. His article was in US conceal carry magazine last summer. You can probably bring it up by typing in "stopping power with one shot" by Greg Ellifritz.

 

[gym]

The seacamp was the last 32 I owned. Back about 15 years ago when it first came out. Ammo was very expensive, "silvertips only" in the first models. The bullet was made for the gun, so they say, who knows, but when 9mm was 10-12 bucks a box, this stuff was $50.
The 327 mag was an interesting rounds that really didn't catch either.
There are a couple of other 32 rounds over the years 32 H&R magnum etc, but I wouldn't want to need ammo, and have to locate it fast. You need to buy it by the case in this instance. Another problem for many. It does shoot smoother in the standard 32 than the higher pressure 380 does, and for a hideout gun, it might do. I would only use it in that capacity, as a second gun, or a range gun, although I always wanted a 1903 colt in pristine condition, the flatness of the gun has an allure.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Have you done any documented or measured bullet penetration tests, especially .32 ACP and .380 ACP, with phone books, pine boards, etc. ? If so, have you done others like : .22LR, .22 MAG, 9mm (9x19), 9x18 Mak, .38 SP, .357 MAG, and .45 ACP ? I'd be interested .

I have done a lot of testing on factory .32 loads and researched a lot of information available online via Brassfetcher Ballistics, a fellow at GoldenLoki.com (whose information has now vanished) and stuff from other forums like at KTOG's various testers and .32 developer. My experience (my personal testing) is not documented except in notebooks at home.

The reason I have not taken the time to publicly document my testing is very complex but generally I have been "shouted down" by the Big Caliber Bully Boys so many times that I feel doing so would only subject me to a level of snark and criticism that makes the time expenditure pointless. My tests pretty much verified what is already commonly available via the 'Net if one Googles and searches.

I have settled on hard cast flat nose lead bullets which are Rim Rock Bullets 75 gr. Premiums...the same bullet Buffalo Bore uses in their .32 offering. I am driving them to 1050+ fps and getting 17" of penetration in 20% Ballistic Gelatine in tests I paid for at a ballistics testing lab which will remain un named. I used my 2 Colt 1903 Model M's. I have not seen signs of excess pressure and believe I can drive the same bullets faster, deeper, harder.

To be fair, the recoil of these rounds is almost identical to a hot factory .380 round from the same pistol...I have friends with .380 Colt model M's. Others have documented (and I have tested the same) of resizing 85 gr. Hornady XTP's down to .309 and running them very hot as well and the penetration and expansion ends up with deeply penetrating bullets (over 12") and expansion to .40 and even .50 caliber with excellent retention of the jacket and almost zero fragmentation. These bullets in this configuration would be awesome SD rounds in a .32 ACP but more testing needs to be done.

My point: The .32 is not only acceptable as an SD round but as others have pointed out might be excellent if you read some one shot stop statistics without the bias. With development? I think we have only guessed at how potent a .32 ACP could be if maximized and shot out of 3.5" - 4" barrels instead of tiny mouse gun barrels. To be fair, the recoil will be a lot stiffer but the results are still less recoil than a comparable 9mm.

VooDoo

 

[Old Fuff]

Be careful when developing/testing hot loads in a Colt Pocket Model pistol. These, like many others have Browning straight blowback actions. In other words the slide and barrel are not locked together during a dwell time when the bullet goes down the barrel and exits thereby letting pressure drop.

The only thing that keeps a straight blowback action closed is the weight of the slide and tension from the recoil and hammer mainspring. This is the reason Browning only used this system with relatively low pressure cartridges. Going too far up can result in frame/slide battering.

Incidentally, Browning was not involved in the development of the 1908 .380 version, just Colt engineers.

There isn't much you can do about the mainspring, but recoil springs should be regularly replaced with heavy duty ones in any blowback pistol that is used often.

Also, if you can find one, a pistol with a locked breech design is a much better platform to use for load development.

 

[Gun Master]

.32 & .380 Statistics With FMJ & HP in Each

Gun Master, I have done a number of tests here at my farm range with the 32acp and 380. I have found that in soaked newspapers wadded up in cardboard boxes lined with plastic bag that the 32 acp ball ammo has more penetration than hollowpoint 380. Research done by Greg Ellifritz, an LEO, compiled much data on people being shot . He found that the 32 acp had as many stops with one shot as the 380acp. His article was in US conceal carry magazine last summer. You can probably bring it up by typing in "stopping power with one shot" by Greg Ellifritz.

I would expect ball ammo to penetrate better than hollow point, all things being equal. Also, I would expect HP to "knock a bigger hole" than FMJ of the same caliber. For it to do any good, the bullet first must penetrate. Otherwise, the worst it could do is "make a sore(tender) place", or "hurt his feelings", which would be worse, making him mad, and intent on doing the shooter harm. Only 2nd would expansion be important. First, penetrate, next expansion. Both are important.

Do you have any info re: FMJ & HP in .32 and .380 ?

Thanks for your reply ?

 

[chicharrones]

With development? I think we have only guessed at how potent a .32 ACP could be if maximized and shot out of 3.5" - 4" barrels instead of tiny mouse gun barrels. To be fair, the recoil will be a lot stiffer but the results are still less recoil than a comparable 9mm.

VooDoo

Well, I think North American Arms did try out a "magnum" .32 ACP in the .32 NAA cartridge, which never took off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32_NAA I can imagine how cool that would be to try in a CZ83 or the like.

Speaking of modern bottle neck pistol cartridges, it makes me think of the .22 TCM as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_TCM