bullseyebob47
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i would like the bead site. out of the box reliable. 8 or more shots. quick reloads.
most reliable semiauto combat shotgun?
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Nom de Forum
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It is hard to beat a shotgun using an inertia locking system for reliability if you are using full power buck/slug ammunition. The operating system is so simple and stays so clean there is little to go wrong after extended firing. At least three manufacturers that I know of have models with this type of action: Beretta, Benelli, FN.
browningguy
Member
Benelli.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Benelli.
Barry the Bear
Member
+1 for benelli
MikeJackmin
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Beretta uses gas to operate their semi-auto guns.
Gas or inertia, you're still at the mercy of the round going off to cycle the action. I think it's really a wash between the two.
When if comes to shotguns, selection criteria goes, budget first, fit second, controls/features next. So, look at guns in your budget, find one that fits, then make sure you're comfortable with the controls.
I doubt you'll find any guns that are any quicker to reload than others. They all have a lifter in the way, and a shell-stop which you must push the shell past. The obvious exception to this would be the Saiga, detachable-box magazine guns.
I'm actually kinda curious, why quick reloading is of much concern? If you're a 3-gunner, you'll probably have the loading port machined anyway down the road. If it's just for an HD/fun gun - well if 8 rounds won't do it, have a backup weapon. (A pistol with 15+, or a rifle with 30+)
As a gun to check out, look at the Remington Versamax tactical. Or the Benelli M2 tactical.
Gas or inertia, you're still at the mercy of the round going off to cycle the action. I think it's really a wash between the two.
When if comes to shotguns, selection criteria goes, budget first, fit second, controls/features next. So, look at guns in your budget, find one that fits, then make sure you're comfortable with the controls.
I doubt you'll find any guns that are any quicker to reload than others. They all have a lifter in the way, and a shell-stop which you must push the shell past. The obvious exception to this would be the Saiga, detachable-box magazine guns.
I'm actually kinda curious, why quick reloading is of much concern? If you're a 3-gunner, you'll probably have the loading port machined anyway down the road. If it's just for an HD/fun gun - well if 8 rounds won't do it, have a backup weapon. (A pistol with 15+, or a rifle with 30+)
As a gun to check out, look at the Remington Versamax tactical. Or the Benelli M2 tactical.
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Virginian
Member
Note that the current military version of the Benelli is their only gas operated model.
The Remington 1100 and the Benelli M2 are most popular guns in 3-Gun.
The Remington 1100 and the Benelli M2 are most popular guns in 3-Gun.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Well, the requirement that led Benelli to propose a gas gun had little to do with reliability - it was in response to the NV and farkle requirement:
http://web.archive.org/web/20051016000213/www.benelliusa.com/firearms/m4.tpl
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/benelli-m4-super-90-review/
The reality is that the Inertial system is about as low maintenance and high reliability as they get.
My go-to gun is a Benelli M2 Field 12ga 3" with a 21" barrel and ComforTech stock (standard factory configuration), equipped with a Nordic magazine extension.
Nom de Forum
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Which Beretta semi-auto guns are recoil operated? Not trying to be a jerk - I was under the impression that all Beretta Semi-Auto's were gas-operated.
Benelli, Franchi and Stoeger all use inertia-actions. (The Benelli rifles, and M4 shotgun use their ARGO gas-piston system.) Benelli and it's subsidiaries are owned by the Beretta group - is this what you mean, when saying that some Berettas are inertia actions? (As in, some Beretta-group guns...?)
Benelli, Franchi and Stoeger all use inertia-actions. (The Benelli rifles, and M4 shotgun use their ARGO gas-piston system.) Benelli and it's subsidiaries are owned by the Beretta group - is this what you mean, when saying that some Berettas are inertia actions? (As in, some Beretta-group guns...?)
Nom de Forum
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The 1200 and 1201 series are inertia-actions. Both are no longer in production but it is not hard to find good used ones. They were and are considerably less expensive than a Benelli. I have always thought the 1201FP is one of the most aesthetically pleasing semi-auto shotguns ever made. I got mine for about $400 back in 1997.
Panzerschwein
member
Benelli.
Virginian
Member
Reliability simply means it works. It does not take into account all the nuances that makes a shotgun feel right to an individual. A Remington 20 gauge 1100 holds the record for most consecutive shots without a malfunction, or cleaning, at something like 24,000 (yes, three zeros). I do not know what kind of shells they were using, but at the time they were owned by DuPont, and DuPont was also making powder.
In truth, there is VERY little if any difference in reliability between any of the current semi autos from good name brand manufacturers that have been reasonably well maintained. Benelli marketing is the best in the world, as could be deduced from the answers one sees on forums. I am not saying they don't work, but they are hardly in a class by themselves. IMO a Franchi Affinity is a better looking gun with all the attributes for less money. I absolutely don't like them, but an old Browning A-5, properly maintained and set up for the load one is shooting, is about as reliable as it gets.
In truth, there is VERY little if any difference in reliability between any of the current semi autos from good name brand manufacturers that have been reasonably well maintained. Benelli marketing is the best in the world, as could be deduced from the answers one sees on forums. I am not saying they don't work, but they are hardly in a class by themselves. IMO a Franchi Affinity is a better looking gun with all the attributes for less money. I absolutely don't like them, but an old Browning A-5, properly maintained and set up for the load one is shooting, is about as reliable as it gets.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Yes, the Beretta 1200/1201 guns are recoil operated. That's because they're essentially rebadged Benelli's. AFAICT, the only significant change that Benelli made to 'Beretta-ize' the guns was to adopt the Beretta style of bolt release.
Nom de Forum
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Rebadged Benellis? Beretta owned Benelli so they could use the same actions. The 1200/1201 guns don't look anything like a Bennelli in the way Mercurys looked like rebadged Fords. The Beretta 1201FP I bought doen't look anything like a Benelli M2. It may look more like a Benelli bird gun but not much.
amd6547
Member
The 1201FP is very much like a Benelli M1 Super 90...to the point that some parts can be exchanged or fitted, and Benelli stocks can be used on the 1201's.
My 1201FP is Detroit police surplus. It has functioned 100%, though all I have used in it is full power buck and slug. I did try a few reduced recoil loads, and it handled those too.
My 1201FP is Detroit police surplus. It has functioned 100%, though all I have used in it is full power buck and slug. I did try a few reduced recoil loads, and it handled those too.
Nom de Forum
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I guess it all boils down to how each of us define rebadged. Strictly from an appearance standpoint the 1201FP is fairly distinct in appearance. I'll admit I have a biased opinion because I think the 1201FP is really good looking. I tried a Benelli stock (and an awful Choate) on mine but went back to the Beretta stock. When new mine was marginal with reduced recoil loads but with use it loosened up and ran fine.
The Benelli inertia action is extremely reliable when using full power loads. Lots of them will choke on light target, and reduced recoil loads. The newer self-regulating gas systems are much more forgiving of load selection, and help tame the recoil IMO. My personal choice would be a Beretta, Winchester SX3, or Mossberg 930. Keep in mind also, that once you put a magazine extension on an imported shotgun to get your 8 round requirement you will need to replace some original parts for US made ones for 922r compliance.
rbernie
Contributing Member
They look different becsuse Beretta wanted to mimic the lines of their other guns. The external lines are reskinned, if you will, but the mechanics are Benelli - just like GM traditionally used the same platform across its various lines with exterior and trim changes but the same floor pan and such.
At the risk of being a Benelli cheerleader - this is true in the extreme but only then. My 12ga SBEII and M2s will cycle 7/8oz loads quite reliably, although it took a few boxes of rounds with 1oz loads to get to that point.
My Beretta 390s/391/3901 will cycle 3/4oz loads, which is notable but not particularly useful for most field or defense purposes.
I do not believe that this is true.
rbernie
Contributing Member
922(r) applies only to semiauto shotguns or rifles that are prohibited in some form from importation.
Since the Benelli (or Beretta or Browning) semiauto sporting shotguns do not fall under the auspice of 'prohibited from importation' due to a non-sporting adjudication, then the 922(r) restrictions do not apply.
Since the Benelli (or Beretta or Browning) semiauto sporting shotguns do not fall under the auspice of 'prohibited from importation' due to a non-sporting adjudication, then the 922(r) restrictions do not apply.
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