most reliable semiauto combat shotgun?

[Warp]

I could have sworn it applied to the M2

 

[rbernie]

Ok - I went and looked it up again, to refresh my memory. If the BATF and the SecTreasury consider it a 'non-sporting firearm' then it is restricted from importation, using the following criteria:

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine

922(r) only applies to these specific guns.

So - if I take my Benelli Tactical GRS and put a +3 extender on unit, then I have to address 922(r). If I take any sporting Benelli or Beretta, sans pistol grip as imported, and I add a +3 extender and a PG stock, then I have to address 922(r). If I take a Benelli M2 Field and add a +3 extender on it, I do NOT have to address 922(r).

 

[rule303]

922r is very muddy waters sometimes. The description posted was part of the federal definition of an "assault weapon", not import suitability. However, if the gun would be prohibited from importation in its current configuration, 922r applies. No shotgun will be approved for importation with a mag capacity of more than 5 rounds. Therefore, you must meet 922r if you have an imported shotgun capable of holding more than 5 rounds. With a standard stock M2, you can switch out the forearm and mag follower and you are legal.

 

[rbernie]

No shotgun will be approved for importation with a mag capacity of more than 5 rounds.

And my assertion remains that this statement is incorrect. The 'list' of non-sporting arms that once existed was replaced with the criteria that I quoted above (although I only quoted the shotgun section, and ignored the rifle criteria). That's the wording in the law. And that wording declared 922(r) to be an issue only when two or more 'evil features' are present.

If you believe that I am in error, I would really appreciate your posting USC cites to support your point. I'm always open to being incorrect, but I want to in turn know exactly HOW I am incorrect.

 

[rule303]

From the 2005 Federal Firearms Law handbook provided by the ATF to all dealers and importers:

Certain shotgun features are not particularly suitable or readily adaptable for sporting purposes. These features include:

(1) Folding, telescoping, or collapsible stocks;
(2) bayonet lugs;
(3) flash suppressors;
(4) magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;
(5) grenade-launcher mounts;
(6) integrated rail systems (other than on top of the receiver or barrel);
(7) light enhancing devices;
(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);
(10) forward pistol grips or other protruding parts designed or used for gripping the shotgun with the shooter’s extended hand.

 

[beeb173]

Not to hijack the thread anymore than it has been, what are your concerns as far as reliability? I have to believe a reliable home defense semi auto (one that will likely be shot less than a thousand times) can be had by almost any manufacturer w/ their low end models. Where a "3 gun" semi auto will probably experience failures at some point no matter how 'high end' it is.

 

[jmr40]

I don't know which information is more current, but rbernie's post says.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:

Having the ability to load 5 or more rounds is OK, as long as none of the other features are included.

If I understand right, an M-1 or M-2 sporting shotgun is just fine with an extended mag tube as long as it does not have another feature. Basically any 1 of these features are legal, just not 2 or more.

(1) Folding, telescoping, or collapsible stocks;
(2) bayonet lugs;
(3) flash suppressors;
(4) magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;
(5) grenade-launcher mounts;
(6) integrated rail systems (other than on top of the receiver or barrel);
(7) light enhancing devices;
(8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
(9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);
(10) forward pistol grips or other protruding parts designed or used for gripping the shotgun with the shooter’s extended hand.

Or is there a more recent ruling that makes all this out of date.

 

[Warp]

What is a "light enhancing device"?

 

[rbernie]

From the 2005 Federal Firearms Law handbook provided by the ATF to all dealers and importers:

Understood, but 922(r) today stipulates nothing more than a generic 'sporting purposes' test supported by 925(d)(3). The actual sporting purposes definition is NOT provided anywhere in the CFR or in the USC. However, the test provided in CFR 478.11 for semiauto assault weapons is the test that I have seen commonly referenced. That test is as I posted above:

(d) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of—

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,

(3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds, and

(4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine.

If there is something that demonstrates a more definitive test in current use, that would be great to see.

 

[loose noose]

Most reliable would definitely be my Remington 1100 with the 22" barrel and extended magazine tube. Shot well over a 1000 rounds of 00 buck as well as rifled slug. Never a hiccup, and the recoil due to the gas system was negligible.

 

[PabloJ]

I would go with 12ga ISMASH 'Saiga'. Italians do make finest 0/U game guns available. Those Fabbris are spectacular.

 

[JAshley73]

So it seems like if one wants to stay within the confines of the 922r regulations, (whatever they truly are...) one safe option would be the Versamax tactical...

But then, how does a Benelli M4 pass the test? They come factory with greater tha 5-round magazine capacity, and a pistol-grip stock.

A serious question though, and one that will probably incite more legal talk... What exactly constitutes an "imported" firearm? Foreign manufacture sure, but what if the importer is a USA based business, or USA based subsidiary? Example: Beretta USA, or Benellj USA. Would their Italian manufactured products be subject to these import restrictions as well?

I also take it that USA new manufactured firearm could have any and all of the above and still be legal, or is that incorrect?

 

[mdThanatos]

Actually stock config for a Benelli M4 is 5 in the tube, according to their website anyway.