Single Action vs. Double Action

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mikemyers said:
What you didn't explain, is how you knew what the "fundamentals" were, to learn to to them so well? Did someone teach you, or did you get some of the books that were available, or did you just reason it out for yourself?
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During those initial 3 years, I didn't have instruction (I got some when I started competing, though). But a little homework, and I quickly discovered there are really only 2 fundamentals - sight alignment and trigger control (a 3rd fundamental is doing #s 1 & 2 consistently). Everything else either follows from that or is a distraction, and being honest with yourself is important. For instance, "grip" isn't a fundamental, but if it's affecting 1-3, it needs to be looked at. How the group you're currently shooting is shaping up isn't a fundamental. Only the shot you're currently shooting matters. Not the shot before, not the shot after, not the guy with the hand cannon next to you, not what anyone else might think of your shooting, etc.

In the end, shooting well is a matter of faith. You gotta believe what's been offered so many times before by many great shooters - that if you tend to the process (sight picture/trigger control), the goal (good marksmanship) takes care of itself. I offered My Story partly to answer your questions, but also to help you see that by practicing the fundamentals, you can begin shooting towards your potential. But you gotta have faith that this is how it works.

On a revolver-specific forum, I once offered some thoughts in a thread entitled "Winning with a Revolver". The gist of is that 1) you've got to do the basic well 2) your gear can't be holding you back and (perhaps most important) 3) you gotta believe and stay positive. Self-limiting mental chatter or beliefs will undermine everything else you do. This is generally good shooting advice, and taking this route has helped me start competing well with a rifle.


mikemyers said:
I better understand that you're not simply "shooting fast" but (incredibly to me!) aiming each and every shot.
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Yes. Every shot is aimed, but this is what I was referring to as "combat accuracy". I may not be shooting cloverleafs, but I'm still hitting what I need to hit. I only need to see and confirm I'm on the plate. If it is, the shot's already gone. I'm not trying to get everything in the center of the plate because I don't need to. But I'm doing all this as fast as possible.

Also, this is a good example of why an accurate gun is good for even fast shooting like this: I only need to see and confirm I'm on the plate. That could mean I'm close to the edge of the plate. If my gun delivers, the shot will still hit the plate. If it can't deliver, it might not hit the plate. Worse, I don't have the confidence in my gun to take the shot, so I have to slow down to get in closer to the center to be safe. In essence, it shrinks my target.


mikemyers said:
Watching your video now was the first time I've EVER stopped to think "hey, that looks like something I'd like to do". If I still lived in Michigan, the way I feel now, I'd be considering actually learning how to do it.
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Cool. Posting the vid was worth it, then. But you can't try it where you live now? Jersey? California?
 
MrBorland said:
On a revolver-specific forum, I once offered some thoughts in a thread entitled "Winning with a Revolver".

........

Cool. Posting the vid was worth it, then. But you can't try it where you live now? Jersey? California?
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The explanation helped a lot. So did reading article you linked to. As a "documentary" of what someone else had done, and is doing, I found it fascinating, and part of me was thinking it would be enjoyable to do.... but none of the ranges I go to allow that sort of thing on a normal basis.

I did some more searches, and eventually found this place quite close to me:

http://www.speedshooters.org/about/

It's a "Speedshooting group" in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, not all that far from Miami. What they do sounds simpler than what you're doing, but that means it's most likely an easier place to start. The cost also sounds reasonable.

I've can't do anything right now because of an upcoming trip, but when I return, I may go there for a visit, to check things out, and see if I might be able to get involved. I suspect the Model 28 is too big and heavy to even attempt to do anything quickly, but my Model 19 might be appropriate.

I should add that my interest in doing this is just for the sake of doing it. My brain might still feel like a teenager, but my body isn't as fast at 70 as long ago, and even back then I wasn't particularly "fast" at anything. It seems like that might be a disadvantage, but "age and experience" might overcome "youth and quick reflexes". That is, provided I follow the advice you gave in your writings, and make EVERY shot count.
 
MrBorland said:
During those initial 3 years, I didn't have instruction (I got some when I started competing, though). But a little homework, and I quickly discovered there are really only 2 fundamentals - sight alignment and trigger control (a 3rd fundamental is doing #s 1 & 2 consistently). Everything else either follows from that or is a distraction, and being honest with yourself is important. For instance, "grip" isn't a fundamental, but if it's affecting 1-3, it needs to be looked at. How the group you're currently shooting is shaping up isn't a fundamental. Only the shot you're currently shooting matters. Not the shot before, not the shot after, not the guy with the hand cannon next to you, not what anyone else might think of your shooting, etc.
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I really like this explanation.

I usually have to physically prove to folks how little grip,or stance, plays into making an accurate shot. One of the great examples was Jay Lim on Top Shot, who competed using a Teacup hold.

In the end, shooting well is a matter of faith. You gotta believe what's been offered so many times before by many great shooters - that if you tend to the process (sight picture/trigger control), the goal (good marksmanship) takes care of itself. I offered My Story partly to answer your questions, but also to help you see that by practicing the fundamentals, you can begin shooting towards your potential. But you gotta have faith that this is how it works.
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The mantra I learned, and repeat, is Stay Invested in the Process, Not in the Result.

Shooting well really is a matter of faith in the process and suppressing the ego

But you can't try it where you live now? Jersey? California?
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What :what:

Surely you can't be referring to the birthplace of what we now call Action Pistol :p
 
mikemyers said:
It's a "Speedshooting group" in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, not all that far from Miami. What they do sounds simpler than what you're doing, but that means it's most likely an easier place to start. The cost also sounds reasonable.
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Looks good. A steel match can be an ideal intro into competitive shooting (so long as you get your hits, and don't turn it into a hosefest :cool:). It looks like they even allow rimfires to compete, so you can use your revolver or a .22 pistol if you've got one. Looks like you'll need a holster for whatever you use, though. I doubt they have you draw from the holster on the clock, but a holster might make it easier and faster for SOs to clear a shooter and get the next one to the line.

As far as using your M19 because it's lighter and easier to move around quickly, don't sweat that. The mass of your gun won't matter at first, if ever. Just use the one you're most comfortable with and you shoot best.
 
9mmepiphany said:
......Surely you can't be referring to the birthplace of what we now call Action Pistol :p
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I had to look it up...
I assume this is what you're referring to?


I might have given the wrong impression up above - I'm in Miami, and Florida is one of the states that seems to welcome gun sports. It's just that Miami is too big, and too crowded, and too concreted. I found a lovely place to shoot, Florida Gun, which is a VERY nice indoor range, but I miss what I was able to do so easily in Michigan.

I like your advice - concentrate on your shooting much more so than on the target. In racing we used to say "drive smoothly, and the results will take care of themselves". And, in any of these things, improvements can take many months or years, depending on how much you practice.
 
MrBorland said:
As far as using your M19 because it's lighter and easier to move around quickly, don't sweat that. The mass of your gun won't matter at first, if ever. Just use the one you're most comfortable with and you shoot best.
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Interesting - once again I'm wrong. I was 90% sure you'd agree with what I wrote.

I need to stop concentrating on shooting, and start concentrating on packing. I'm going back to South India, and there's a better chance that it will snow, than that I'll find a place where I can shoot. Maybe I'll find a big heavy weight, that I can pick up and hold on/off for 20 minutes, then close my mind/eye, and pretend to be dry firing.......



You know, you could write a book, about your personal experiences, and advice, and put it up for sale. What you've posted in these threads not only makes for enjoyable reading, but as practical learning advice in my opinion, it's better than everything I've read elsewhere.
 
mikemyers said:
I was 90% sure you'd agree with what I wrote.
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A lighter gun makes intuitive sense, but there are pros and cons to using a lighter gun, and pros and cons for using a heavier gun. When the timer goes off, then, it really just comes down to which you shoot better.

Thanks for all your kind words. Have a safe trip!

MrB
 
My rule of thumb for years has been to put six full house 125 gr. .357 Magnums at 15 yds. into a 5" circle at 15 yds. DAO in six seconds or less. Once you can do this repeatedly under all conditions the rest is downhill.
 
MrBorland said:
.....On a revolver-specific forum, I once offered some thoughts in a thread entitled "Winning with a Revolver". ......
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One of your comments there was "No ..... extra shots. All steel went down with a single hit."


I was thinking about that earlier today. What I realize I do, is load my gun, then take five or six shots (with 1, 2, or 3 empty chambers). Then I put the gun down. Suppose what I wanted to do, is follow your advice, at my indoor range. Since at my stage of this, I have no time limit, why not set up, take a SINGLE shot, pull my hands back to my chest, relax, and do it over again. Do this exact thing, over and over again, no exceptions, no change of routine, and accept that the ONLY shot I'm involved in is the single next shot. No thoughts of before or after. You wrote about this as well.

I did it tonight for my dry-firing session, keeping the same routine, but doing it this new way. For a while, I just struggled with following the new routine, as my body was so used to doing it as I've been doing before. Eventually the old habits got over written. Pick up gun, hold directly in front of me, hold breath, extend arms, place trigger finger in position, ONLY think about the sights, and with some corner of my mind tell my trigger finger to start increasing pressure, but to ignore it and ONLY see the sights. After I hear a click, slowly let out the trigger, while bringing my arms back to my chest, and breathe. Pause for a bit, then do it all over again.



On the positive side, I seemed to do better than before at dry shooting. When the gun went "click" all but for maybe five or six shots (out of a 20 minute session, with about 80 shots total) left me with the memory of the sights being lined up perfectly. The other six were slightly to the side or slightly low).

On the negative side, since I was ONLY thinking sight picture, it was a struggle to get my body to do the right things at the right time. I would pick up the gun, and hold it out in front of me, rather than pick it up and move the gun directly in front of my chest, and only extend my arms once I was ready. Eventually my body learned.

(I figured I'd never get to do this by habit, unless I did things the exact same way over and over again. I want to just "do it", not to have to think about it.)

My goal is still the same as ever - to shoot a 2" group at 15 yards, but based on my recent reading, I'll try this next with SA, and once I've done it, then try to do the same with DA.

When I get back from my trip, I'll be checking out the nearby club and steel plate shooting.
 
The more I read from Mr. Borland, the more I feel he knows what he is about. He "gets it" to a degree I would have loved to achieve, but to date have fallen short of.

Pay attention when he talks about "the intangibles" especially. I do. Even at my advanced age perhaps it is not too late to keep improving.

Hats off and many thanks for sharing Mr. Borland.
 
mikemyers said:
Since at my stage of this, I have no time limit, why not set up, take a SINGLE shot, pull my hands back to my chest, relax, and do it over again. Do this exact thing, over and over again, no exceptions, no change of routine, and accept that the ONLY shot I'm involved in is the single next shot. No thoughts of before or after.
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If you're working on your fundamentals and this method helps you keep your head where it needs to be, there's no reason why you shouldn't employ it (just don't change your position, grip and/or trigger finger position, etc between shots). When working the fundamentals (i.e. shooting for groups), I'll certainly take all the time I need to execute 6 excellent shots. If that means lowering the gun (and head*) to clear my head, I'll certainly do it. And if it means taking 20 minutes to take those shots, I'll do that as well.


Thanks for your kind words, rswartsell. :)





* I can't recall if I mentioned this tip before - Don't peek at the target between shots!! If you retract the gun between shots, lower your head so you're not peeking. Peeking's bad habit, a hard one to break, and a real accuracy killer. It's why I don't recommend Shoot-N-C targets for this type of shooting - too much temptation to peek.

Peeking takes your focus from the process of executing this shot perfectly, because your mind's now preoccupied with how the group's shaping up. The target will be there to check when you're done. It ought to confirm what you already know. ;)
 
MrBorland said:
......* I can't recall if I mentioned this tip before - Don't peek at the target between shots!! If you retract the gun between shots, lower your head so you're not peeking. Peeking's bad habit, a hard one to break, and a real accuracy killer. It's why I don't recommend Shoot-N-C targets for this type of shooting - too much temptation to peek.

Peeking takes your focus from the process of executing this shot perfectly, because your mind's now preoccupied with how the group's shaping up. The target will be there to check when you're done. It ought to confirm what you already know. ;)
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I guess at home I've been doing the "correct" thing for the "wrong" reason. With my shooting-prescription glasses, the target is a blur regardless of where I look, and I can't see where the bullets hit until I run the motor to bring the target back to me. I haven't been using shoot-n-see targets for a while - I started using the CPE grid targets, and then just drew six large crosses on the back of a large target. Until I read what you just posted, I was about to go back to shoot-n-see....... I guess I'll skip that.

When I'm up in Fellsmere, I usually do use shoot-n-see, and have been very aware of where the bullets hit. I tell myself to ignore it, but if the first shot is "way off", then part of me is thinking (stupidly) that this target is already wasted, and the following shots for that particular target are invariably bad. I get to "start over" on the next target. Dumb. A close relative of mine is even worse - he sees where the holes appear, and tries to adjust his shooting accordingly, to "walk the holes to where he wants them"..... best way I can describe it. I know that won't work, as if you can only shoot a 5" group, where the holes will be is totally random, within that 5" circle. Making a change because of three shots is silly.

Back to me... following your advice the way I wrote it, is good for me, as it will separate each and every shot from what happened before and after. I figure if I ever get that right, the grouping will take care of itself. I try to keep my hands, and everything else the same, and if I start to feel uncomfortable, I lower the hammer, rest, and start all over again. I guess I don't need to use any special target - maybe continue just turning the targets i get at the range over, and draw six or more large crosses on the back. It's indoors, and not that well lit, so I've found that if I draw a one inch black circle at the bullseye, I have something I can aim for. Just drawing a cross with a large magic marker isn't enough for me to see it, unless I make the lines at least 1/4" wide......



Gee, I wonder what would happen, were you to post that one sentence in the general forum area: "Don't peek at the target between shots!! --- Peeking takes your focus from the process of executing this shot perfectly, because your mind's now preoccupied with how the group's shaping up." ......I think this would really shake things up! :what:
 
Update.... went to the range this morning, and following your new advice, results were improved. SA for two targets was a nice 3" grouping at 15 yards. DA was not as good.


Anyway, I was thinking over what you've been saying, and demonstrating on your video.

My own explanation of what you've shown me - if you trust yourself and your gun, you don't have to wait for a perfect sight picture, just one that's good enough to get a good shot, and then move on to the next shot. Makes sense.

Problem: if i keep shooting at my indoor range, close to home, but "no rapid fire" and only one target, I don't know how i could practice what you do.

Solution (maybe?): Even if I can't do it all, I can certainly draw three big "crosses" spaced around the backing board, and then somewhat quickly fire twice at each one, in turn. I guess if that would still be considered "rapid fire", I better make it once at each target, repeating the whole group twice.



Here's today's target, following all your advice, SA on top, DA on the bottom. Not what I eventually hope to do, but still better than before.....

S&W%20357%20Highway%20Patrolman,%2038%20Special.jpg


Note: Especially in DA, I'm better at equalizing the "white space" on either side of the front sight, than I am at keeping the front sight level with the rear sight. I find that much harder to do, than keeping the sights centered.....
 
Very nice, Mike!

If you're interested, print out some NRA B-2 targets, which are scaled for 50' (45'/15 yards should be close enough). The scoring rings will allow you to keep a record of your scores. A rolling 10-score average ought to be a pretty good indicator of where you are at the time. And if you're ever interested in how you stack up, you can compare your scores to actual NRA classifications.


As far as speeding things up at your range, below is a link to several speed/accuracy drills you can try, complete with printable targets. In particular, I'd recommend "Dot Torture". Ideally, you'd use a par timer. If you don't have one, there are apps available. Or bag the par timer altogether. Just shoot them smoothly and accurately, seeing what you need to see when you need to see it, and breaking the shot. Piece of cake. ;)

http://www.throwinglead.com/index.php?page=drills


EDIT: That Dot Torture drill is an excellent dry fire drill as well. To help pace yourself, and make your splits (time between trigger pulls) and transitions (time between targets) even and smooth, dry fire to a metronome. Just don't set the metronome for a pace faster than you can do the drill well.

http://www.metronomeonline.com/
 
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Mike, I'd say that the hints are getting through just fine. You've got groupings now with only a couple of strays. In particular note that your DA and SA groups are pretty much the same size. Which means that you're achieving the proper sort of focus on sight picture and smooth progressive trigger pull regardless of the style of the trigger action.

The rest might simply be your built in nerve shake. If you're a serious coffee drinker try cutting down or not having any for a few hours before you go shooting. And try not to shoot when either seriously hungry or right after a big meal.
 
Thanks! I printed out a group of the NRA B-2 targets - did it twice, the second time turning off the "fit to page" option which I forgot about. If I can squeeze in one more trip to the range before my trip, I'll try them. The "speed-it-up" techniques will need to wait until I return.

I like the way the groupings are improved; horizontal aim is easier than vertical aim, as it's so much simpler for me to "equalize" the white space on either side of the front sight, as seen through the notch. It's not quite that easy vertically.

If the rest is my built-in nerve shake, maybe I need a cup of anti-coffee. Coffee never seems to affect me - I can drink coffee, and go right off to sleep. I think my body is immune to Caffeine. If I go next week, I'll have a large glass of milk instead for breakfast, or decaf, just in case.



Interesting - I passed along the advice, word-for-word, about not using shoot-n-see targets, and completely, 100% concentrating on one shot at a time, ignoring the group that is forming. I felt like Christopher Columbus must have felt, while trying to tell people that what they thought they knew might be wrong. Others are sure that they are right, and my suggestion is too silly to consider.

After a lot of thought, I decided it comes down to whether people want to have a good time shooting, or work at shooting better.

My own solution for now, is to load 5 rounds, with one chamber empty, and spin the cylinder so I have no idea when the empty is likely to come up. I'm doing so well at clearing my mind of everything other than the shot I'm talking at the moment, that I lose track completely of how many shots I have left, and frequently open the cylinder, only to find there's still a round left that isn't fired..... in which case, I close the cylinder, spin it a random number of times, and then fire away as if the very next shot is live, until eventually it goes Boom! Most of the time (but not yet all the time), there is no more "flinch", but it takes a lot of concentration to do this. It's like a game to me, with all my concentration going to moving the gun as needed to keep the sights lined up, while my trigger finger all on its own is trying to pull the front sight back to the rear sight.

I still can't really say I can "call the shot", although I'm getting better. I try to do it all the time in dry-firing, hoping that it will carry over to live-firing.

Something Murf and others predicted is also coming true. My trigger on the M-28 is getting better all the time. I wouldn't call it "good" yet, but it's a lot less "bad". :)
 
Keep up with what you're doing now and try subtle changes one at a time and soon you'll be doing as well as you're able to. We are not all Olympic Team material. But that doesn't mean we can't become as good as we can.

There's a heap of stuff you can work with. Grip strength is one. Try holding on more softly then try holding on with a little more pressure. Somewhere in the range you'll find your own happy spot.

Try different ammo as well. I know that my CZ semi auto most certainly shoots tighter with cast lead ammo vs jacketed. And so might your revolver. So don't be afraid to try some options.
 
BCRider said:
......We are not all Olympic Team material. But that doesn't mean we can't become as good as we can........
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The above responses left me wondering how to separate what my body is capable of doing, from the functions I'm trying to learn. It didn't seem like there was any to separate them, so I could figure out how well "me" was doing, as opposed to how well I'm following the best shooting procedures for greatest precision.

Looking in a mirror didn't help. Dry-firing was helpful, to a point. Then I remembered the Crimson Trace lasergrips I bought two months ago. I never installed them, as I was dead set on learning how to do things the old fashioned way. Then I figured, I'm leaving on my trip, what do I have to lose by trying them out now. So, they're now on my Model 28.

First impression - they are "skinnier" than my original wood grips. For my not-so-big hands, that is better. They are certainly more comfortable.

Second impression - they are a wonderful way to instantly see if I'm moving the gun at all, as I dry-fire. I can sort of tell by watching the sights, but the laser "dot" shows EXACTLY what I did with the gun as I pulled the trigger, both SA and DA.

Third impression - For me. it is impossible to keep the "dot" from moving. The amount it wobbles around, just from my ability to hold the gun steady, is probably what I saw while looking at my last set of carefully slow-fired targets. I can test to see if this gets better or worse with coffee, or anything else I'd like to test for. Who knows, maybe that's a limit that I just need to live with, just as I could never bench-lift (if that's the word) 300 pounds of weights.



I expect I will turn the laser sights off when I get to the range, for all but maybe one target. To me, laser grips still feel like "cheating". Not to mention, I'm also likely to shoot other guns, including my 1911 when it comes back from Colt.

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Question - are there other things that any of you have found to minimize any shake in your body? I suspect that for someone as good as many of you, it's even worse, as other people are probably watching, putting even more pressure on you to perform well. I'm thinking of Mr. Borland and the shooting competitions as I'm writing this.
 
mikemyers said:
Second impression - they are a wonderful way to instantly see if I'm moving the gun at all, as I dry-fire. I can sort of tell by watching the sights, but the laser "dot" shows EXACTLY what I did with the gun as I pulled the trigger, both SA and DA.
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Personally, I'm not a fan of laser grips for dry fire training. If you're watching the dot, you're not watching the front sight. Watching a dot isn't a fundamental. Just sayin'. ;)

mikemyers said:
Third impression - For me. it is impossible to keep the "dot" from moving. The amount it wobbles around, just from my ability to hold the gun steady, is probably what I saw while looking at my last set of carefully slow-fired targets. I can test to see if this gets better or worse with coffee, or anything else I'd like to test for. Who knows, maybe that's a limit that I just need to live with, just as I could never bench-lift (if that's the word) 300 pounds of weights.


Question - are there other things that any of you have found to minimize any shake in your body? I suspect that for someone as good as many of you, it's even worse, as other people are probably watching, putting even more pressure on you to perform well.
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Laying off coffee might help, but there will always be wobble. Worrying about it, trying to eliminate it, or trying to time the shot just makes it worse. The best you can do it acknowledge it, don't fight it, and break the shot smoothly. The trick is to not turn an 8-ring wobble into a 5-ring trigger jerk.

As far as jitters while people watch, it's normal to a degree, but shooters must develop a good mental game if they are to shoot to their potential. Focus only on the process of a good shot, and there won't be room in your mind for such worry. The target and the process aren't somehow changed simply because others are around, so worrying about anything other than the process of executing a good shot is simply a distraction. If it helps, remind yourself that you are who you are, whether anyone else is watching or not.
 
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I agree - I need to keep working on the regular sights and especially on trigger control. .....but 10 shots in a row with the laser sights every so often might be useful as a quick test, to verify that my gun isn't moving when it shouldn't. The real test, of course, is at the range!


I can easily relate to the other things you said. When I used to race r/c cars, I was very aware of what other people saw as they watched my car. I couldn't help it. With handgun shooting, my mind used to block out almost everything else going on, and since I started following your advice here, I think it's now blocking out EVERYTHING except the shot I'm about to take. I don't know or care if anyone is looking. I don't know how many shots it has been since I reloaded. I don't know if it's going to be a live round, or the "empty". And I'm trying so hard to concentrate only on the sights, I no longer even know "when" the hammer is going to drop. In the background of my mind, the trigger finger is only supposed to gradually be increasing pressure, and lately, just about every shot is a surprise. (If, in addition to all the above, if I concentrate as hard as I can on the top of the front sight, there won't be any brain-power left sitting unused to try to create a flinch! :) )

I have a mental (and written down) check-list for use before I start shooting, and the best way I've found to do what you suggested, was to bring my hands back to my chest before EVERY shot, so I've got a very simple routine to follow, and to try to do it the exact same way EVERY shot. I don't know how long it is between shots - I guess I should time myself. I don't start putting pressure on the trigger until the sights are close to being lined up, and I hardly ever take "much longer" than normal. ....and if anything goes wrong, I lower the hammer, bring the gun back, take a break, then start all over again.

I used to check the target for every shot. Now, it's every 5 shots.

Eventually, maybe, possibly, I will somehow magically learn how to take what I've learned about "calling the shot" while dry-firing, and do the same thing at the range. I hope.
 
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SDGlock23 said:
I don't have any double actions any longer, but mostl always shot them single action. However, it is good to practice "staging" the trigger on a double action, helps you to shoot DA much better.
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You are wrong.
 
9mmepiphany said:
That was a popular instruction at one time, but it presupposed that the shooter had a certain level of skill in pressing off a SA shot...because what you were really doing was trying to get a SA release with a DA trigger stroke.

Staging a trigger at reasonable handgun distances...inside 50 yards...is a losing proposition for a couple of reasons:
1. takes longer to learn
2. sets up an anticipation jerk of the trigger

It is much better to learn a smooth continuous trigger stroke from the beginning
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All of my USPSA and Steel Challenge S&W's have Carmonized hammers and 5.5 lb actions so smooth and linear, that they are impossible to stage.
 
I did get time to make one final trip to the range this morning, and things weren't as I expected. My conclusions, based on my own capabilities, that may or may not apply to anyone else are:

  • For reasons that I cannot understand, I shoot better groups using DA than SA, despite my thoughts that my trigger needs work. All I can think of is that since I'm struggling to keep the sights lined up, I'm constantly reacting to movement, where with SA I don't "react" very much to anything.
  • My experiment with the Crimson Trace sights showed me two things. That it was VERY easy to hit close to where I was aiming, no matter what, even no matter how I held the gun, BUT the "precision" was gone. My groupings with the laser sights were much larger than what I could accomplish using the sights. Maybe I just need to learn how to use the laser better, but I suspect that the old fashioned front and rear sight offer better precision.


It will probably sound stupid to everyone except maybe Murf, but no matter how silly it sounds, I'm beginning to think that it's better to learn how to shoot well with a trigger that is anything but smooth, as what I think I'm constantly learning is how to react to all the problems caused by a poor trigger, and correct for them.

(I'd love to be able to try "Carmonized hammers and 5.5 lb actions so smooth and linear, that they are impossible to stage". Maybe sometime in the future, I'll get a chance to do so.)
 
I don't know how long it is between shots - I guess I should time myself.
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I wouldn't add a timer, just because it's not necessary for what you're doing. Speed isn't your goal right now, you're working on fundamentals and adding a timer would probably only be a distraction. Seems like you have a good routine as far as focusing on your shot already.

You mentioned shooting other guns, do you focus on trigger control and fundamentals as much with them as when you shoot double action revolvers? Reason I ask is because I was able to transition from shooting mostly semiautomatic rifles to mostly double action revolvers very easily. I attribute this to learning very good trigger control on military qualification ranges so when I started shooting revolvers I already had good habits.
 
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