Lasers on handguns?

I think pistol lasers are great training devices. Would I carry one? I don't think so; at least not after having spent most of my life learning how to aim the pistol instead of the dot. I'm, also, certain that I'm faster without using a laser than I am with one.

Crayfish said:

What kind of importance,if any, would you give the laser?

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As a training tool, like in the laser cartridges that emit a spot/beam when you pull the trigger, used as a training aid to show you where the bullet would be hitting in dry fire I think is an excellent use of lasers on firearms.

As a sight it is not for me - too slow and makes me "chase" the beam/spot. I shoot at what I look at very precisely (Point Shoot) so a laser is an unnecessary gimmick of little practical use for me.

But as a laser training aid they rock.

VooDoo

I have a CT laser on my carry gun for one reason, long shots.
I keep it sighted so the dot is just below my iron sights, if I see the dot while normal shooting I'm doing it wrong, but in the event I need to make a shot to far for the irons, then the dot is still close enough to hit.

This way I don't rely on the dot, but it's there when/if I need it. At least it normally is, I sometime forget about it and let the battery die.

I have crimson trace grips on all four of my SD revolvers: two 642s, a 65 and a 686.

the laser is an integral part of the grip, so there is no problem with buying specific holsters.

I don't believe that any SD assault I may ever encounter will be like me standing upright and frontal at a range, drawing when I want to, emptying a gun at a large, stationary target.

The red dot for me allows me to make hits while crouching, in a retention position, on the ground on my back, etc. without having to align sights. Yes, I also practice point shooting.

I like them. To me they are worth the money.

My most regular carry gun is a Ruger LCP (please, no .380 warfare) because it is easily pocket carried and can always be with me. It has a LaserLyte CK-AMF side mount laser, which adds essentially no bulk to the gun. Once zeroed in at 8 yards it has held POA, and every range trip for any gun includes at 2 magazines through the LCP, one over open sights and one on the LaserLyte. Dead on every time, at about 200 rounds so far.

I have heard of a few instances when a laser was all that is needed to scare off a would be threat. Everyone has seen the movies where lasers run amuck in inappropriate places. And that makes people instantly associate your laser with the gun it's attached to, especially in low light conditions, they know you mean business.

Full disclosure. Only have one laser.
Do not use them on a carry gun.
Not allowed in my CHL class but will train people who want to use them.
I find students concentrate more on the laser than technique.
Optimum range for best use is 15 yards. MOO
When laser is removed without notice as in real life sudden failure
way too much time taken in acquiring and firing on target.
I can see their advantages for some people but overall not a fan.
JMO. YRMV.

Optimum range for best use is 15 yards.

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Just curious what you base that on, personally I wouldn't normally use one that close. Like I said my use for them is mainly for longer shots, over 15 yards for sure.

They are standard equipment for Navy SEAL's. They don't use gimmicks. They are a very useful tool if understood and used correctly. You can't always use your gun in the traditional manner and look through the sights. A laser allows you to hold the gun in a non-traditional position and still get hits in any light. You won't get best accuracy, but it takes point shooting to a whole new level.

Optimum range for best use is 15 yards

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In my experience lasers have a limited useful range because of how they are mounted. The ones I own are part of the grip and are well below the bore and to the right. The laser beam is at an upward angle and aimed to the left I have mine zeroed about 8-10 yards. At closer ranges they are close enough. At longer ranges the laser points higher and to the left of where the bullet will impact. Still close enough to get hits out to 12-15 yards, but at longer ranges the laser is going to be way off point of impact. I could zero at longer ranges, but then I'd be off at closer ranges where shots are more likely. For longer range shots you have time to just use the irons.

The lasers mounted directly under the barrel, or over the barrel like optical sights, especially on rifles are less affected by this.

"A laser allows you to hold the gun in a non-traditional position and still get hits in any light."


This is where the laser can provide the advantage. I have tried shooting at the range with my xdm using the laser with the gun a little above waist level, and I was surprised how accurate the shot was to the laser point.

I also use one on my AK pistol, as that gun can't be effectively fired at eye level. Works great.

If you're engaged in hand to hand with a BG in the dark, you likely won't be able to use the sights. However, if you can see the red dot on him, you know you've got him. And he knows it too.

But, IMO, they suck for target shooting because the laser beam and bullet path will only intersect at the exact point where the laser is zero'd. The farther away the target is from that point the farther off the bullet impact will be. Plus, laser beams are straight and bullet paths are curved, etc.

rondog, not to pick you out but I have to address this as many other than yourself have said it, or something similar.

But, IMO, they suck for target shooting because the laser beam and bullet path will only intersect at the exact point where the laser is zero'd. The farther away the target is from that point the farther off the bullet impact will be. Plus, laser beams are straight and bullet paths are curved, etc

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I just have to disagree, at least to some extent. I'll keep the limit to 50 yards (because that's the distance I can make the best argument at)

A quick google search found a 124 gr. Federal American Eagle at 1120 fps (at muzzle) drops only 1.8 inches at 50 yards. So if you stretch it out a bit when zeroing up to 50 yards you can still easily hit targets, unless your targets are significantly smaller than mine!

I do admit the laser is perfectly straight and (usually) starts out below the bore, but honestly it's not that much below.
Say you zero it 25 yards, the bullet will drop an additional 1.5" and yes the laser is pointing up, but again it's not much. Say its pointing up and is and extra 1.5" at fifty yards that's only puts it in the neighborhood of 3" above the projectile.

And if you back it up to 40yards that bullet drop is an entire inch less, at 60 it doubles from 1.8 to over 3"

Anyway the point is you can zero the laser at 20-30 yards then easily hit a 12" target by the laser out to 40-60 yards depending on many variables. even the fat, slow, rainbow 45acp doesn't drop enough to really matter in the first 40 yards.

+1

You might notice the iron sights are not exactly centered with the bore either.

They can only be sighted in at one range too.

My beef with red lasers is you can't see them in bright sunlight beyond 10 - 15 yards.
And you can't see them at all against green foliage in the woods.

But for dim light at SD range?
You can't miss if you don't jerk the trigger and miss.

Rc

I reckon if you train with it, it'll work for you. I can see advantages to having one. But you got to learn to work it. I had one on a carbine dialed in at 25 yards that was kind of fun. I eventually took it off. I've also shot my Dad's laser equipped pistol at distances between seven and 15 yards. Basically, I find the red dot hard to see and spent a lot of time looking for the dot for follow up shots.

I have a Crimson Trace on my carry piece, a S&W 642. I feel it's a very useful aid in low light. In daylight, not so much, but it wouldn't be needed under those conditions.

But, IMO, they suck for target shooting because the laser beam and bullet path will only intersect at the exact point where the laser is zero'd. The farther away the target is from that point the farther off the bullet impact will be. Plus, laser beams are straight and bullet paths are curved, etc.

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Rondog makes an important point, and brings up a question. He anyone tried aiming the laser parralel with the barrel? Such that it is low and right by the same amount regardless of distance? Then only bullet drop needs to be taken into account.

I have a SIG STL900 laser/light combo on my SIG P229 for HD use.

I have CT grips on my Ruger LCR's, a .22 & .357 and find them to be a huge advantage for practice and low light use. Especially for guns intended for close range with the rudimentary sights typical of such arms I consider laser assistance to be highly desirable. Particularly when they are as instinctive to use as the CT's.

I have a viridian R5 on my LCP. The LCP is one of the Gen 1 guns with the almost non existent sights. It's an assist not the only thing I use for sight picture but on such a small gun with such poor sights I think it's a great benefit with very little down side given how small the laser is and how well it fits the gun.

rcmodel said:

+1

You might notice the iron sights are not exactly centered with the bore either.

They can only be sighted in at one range too.

My beef with red lasers is you can't see them in bright sunlight beyond 10 - 15 yards.
And you can't see them at all against green foliage in the woods.

But for dim light at SD range?
You can't miss if you don't jerk the trigger and miss.

Rc

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2 actually, but who's counting....

Because of the way the bullet drops, having a line of sight above the bore, whether it's a scope or irons, POA and POI will be closer for longer than having a "line of sight" or laser below the bore.

But the laser works whether you can line up your sights or not, so it has that going for it.

I carry a RIA Compact 1911, and it's equipped with CT Lasergrips. My intention for the laser is just for close-in SD at bad breath distances.

Sure, you can hit pie plate sized targets with it at most pistol distances, the point I was trying to make is that the bullet won't hit the red dot every time, at every distance. It's not a magic talisman that'll make you a deadeye target shooter, but some folks seem to assume that's what the laser is for.

It's merely meant to assist you in making minute-of-bad-guy hits in defensive situations.

JMHO.

I'm glad others value lasers for carry and SD.

My last range session (last Sunday) I brought along my 3-D polymer head and torso target, dressed in a t-shirt, hoodie, wig and baseball cap. Hung it from the indoor range target hanger, ran it out 6-12 feet.

I shot 40 rounds from the S&W 642, and every round hit the target in center mass OR THE HEAD. It's rather difficult, I think, to hit the head of a 3-D target in subdued light with a snubnosed revolver at speed, esp. when the target is in profile or moving slightly.

The CT laser helped me not miss. And the head target area of this dummy, with wig and baseball hat, is about the size of a grapefruit (between the bridge of the nose and the hairline.)

I have a CT laser on my Glock 42 which sits on the nightstand. With a paralyzed right foot, it is a great aid where I need to use one hand for balance and may have to fire from the hip. Put 35 of 35 in a nine inch plate from eight yards shooting right or left handed with a cane for support on the opposing side.