Why aren't lasers more popular on handguns?

[I6turbo]

I have lasers on all of the pistols I can afford.

I like lasers so much that I pretty much won't buy a semi-auto handgun without a rail nowadays.

About ten years ago, I had a business meeting with two retired undercover New York City PD detectives.
They told me that they placed lasers on their concealed guns as soon as they were small enough to conceal.

Their rationale: They had been involved in several shootouts while undercover. The lasers allowed them to aim at a perpetrators behind cover without having to have a proper stance, hand hold, or proper alignment of sights. When the dot is on the bad guy, pull the trigger.

Good point, and similar to my personal finding that not having to focus on the sights is a major reason I like the laser.

Yes, it’s hard to learn how to shoot with the laser. The point is don’t learn, just pull the trigger when the jumping red dot hits center mass. Yes, the little lasers pop out of alignment after an extended range session. Buy a bore sight tool, and realign them right there at the range after shooting, so they are ready to go when carried.

Strange. None of mine have changed POI/POA with use. (Mine are all Crimson Trace rail mount.)

No need to bore sight if you have iron sights that are sighted in. Just adjust the laser to strike the same spot that your irons are set for and you're good at that distance.

 

[lee n. field]

The Kimber Crimson Carry II that I inherited had a laser that could no longer be aimed.

Contacted Crimson Trace and the wouldn't warrant it, but offered me 50% off a replacement. Ordered one just because I've never had one and wanted to try it out for myself.

Unfortunately, it is specific to the 1911 platform and my carry pistol is a p365.

SIG branded laserguard, red or green laser:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020170576

good luck finding a holster for it.

 

[trackskippy]

Just out of curiosity here, but those of you who advocate the lasers, how are you shooting with them? Statically, reactively, energetically, from a ready position and/or from a holster, in all light, at most realistic handgun distances (not just point blank), etc. If you and/or the target are moving around, do you still see or find the dot?

When people show how great they shoot with them, its usually a target with a small group on it they shot slow fire, at their leisure, "trying" to shoot a small group, which is cool and all, but what do your "active" targets look like, especially those under some kind of stress and time restraints?

I tried them back in the 90's (and a few times since with guns that came to me in trades with them on the gun) and quickly found they were more of a distraction than a help. The dot is/was zeroed to one distance and didnt coincide with my irons most of the time so that just puts my brain into vapor lock trying to resolve something that shouldnt be a distraction when you really dont need a distraction.

Chasing that silly dot that is "out there somewhere" is counterproductive too, especially when all your focus should be on the target and whats on the gun thats the most effective at letting you hit it under stress, should you even be using it. When the dot is "in" a sight on the gun, you dont have to go look for it, its right there, nor does movement at a distance make major changes in what you see, and make you try and find it again, like a laser does. Just a slight shift in the gun or your body and that laser dot is gone and often hard to quickly recover, if you see it at all.

At the distances, the dot might be the most effective, and where you have the best chance at seeing/finding it, you dont need sights at all, and wasting time looking for the dot, when the target should be getting all of your attention and you should be shooting it, is counterproductive and just distracts you and slows you down.


I think running a short, realistic course of fire with one, against other things for a realistic comparison, would quickly bring reality to a head here and clear this right up.

If you really want something that has a fairly bright dot out in front of you, and gives you confirmation on where youre shooting, maybe tracers are the better answer.

 

[I6turbo]

Just out of curiosity here, but those of you who advocate the lasers, how are you shooting with them? Statically, reactively, energetically, from a ready position and/or from a holster, in all light, at most realistic handgun distances (not just point blank), etc. If you and/or the target are moving around, do you still see or find the dot?

I shoot however I would with iron sights, so pretty much in the various ways you mentioned except from a holster (I don't have holsters for my lasered guns), and not much in literal full sun because (a) I usually practice in the shade rather than full sun, and (b) even the green laser isn't highly visible in full, bright sunlight on many surfaces.

When people show how great they shoot with them, its usually a target with a small group on it they shot slow fire, at their leisure, "trying" to shoot a small group, which is cool and all, but what do your "active" targets look like, especially those under some kind of stress and time restraints?

At least as good as without the laser, but I'm faster and more accurate with the laser. This is the case for me whether engaging in slow fire or faster, "active" fire.

I tried them back in the 90's (and a few times since with guns that came to me in trades with them on the gun) and quickly found they were more of a distraction than a help. The dot is/was zeroed to one distance and didnt coincide with my irons most of the time so that just puts my brain into vapor lock trying to resolve something that shouldnt be a distraction when you really dont need a distraction.

If the laser is mounted under the sights (such as on a typical handgun rail), the "Kentucky windage" calculation is opposite of above-the-bore sights. In other words, if you are shooting a target that is 40 yards away but you have the laser sighted at 7 yards, you will need to hold LOW instead of high in order for the round to hit precisely where you want it. This is not an issue for any HD/SD type scenarios that I might expect to encounter (because I think the likelyhood of having to shoot at someone from 40 yards away is infinitesimal), but if it were to happen, I might just switch to iron sights for that shot. The "reverse KY windage" thing is something you can pretty quickly learn just like you can learn "regular" KY windage if you practice a little bit. (Or at least I learned it pretty easily with a bit of practice.)

Chasing that silly dot that is "out there somewhere" is counterproductive too, especially when all your focus should be on the target and whats on the gun thats the most effective at letting you hit it under stress, should you even be using it. When the dot is "in" a sight on the gun, you dont have to go look for it, its right there, nor does movement at a distance make major changes in what you see, and make you try and find it again, like a laser does. Just a slight shift in the gun or your body and that laser dot is gone and often hard to quickly recover, if you see it at all.

At the distances, the dot might be the most effective, and where you have the best chance at seeing/finding it, you dont need sights at all, and wasting time looking for the dot, when the target should be getting all of your attention and you should be shooting it, is counterproductive and just distracts you and slows you down.

It just doesn't work that way for me, and isn't a distraction. I'm not "looking" for the dot or "chasing" it. The dot is just there where my POI is.

The talk of chasing, or trying to find the dot make me wonder if some people are trying to shoot laser-equipped guns "from the hip" or otherwise not pointing the gun in the same manner that they do with irons? Otherwise, I just don't see how having a bright green dot appear on the target, co-witnessed with the iron sights, could be a distraction. Or how the dot could be hard to find when you pull the gun up on target in the same manner that you do with irons. When I pull my handgun up on target at any reasonable HD/SD distance, it's instantly aimed within approximately a "turkey platter" sized area of where I want the POI. Anything less than this, IMO, means I'm not practicing enough. Or any. The laser or the irons are just for fine tuning the POI. And the laser lets me do it without focusing on the sights, but instead focus maximum attention on whether the target is so seriously threatening my life that I have to pull the trigger.

I think running a short, realistic course of fire with one, against other things for a realistic comparison, would quickly bring reality to a head here and clear this right up.

I agree. It cleared it up for me quickly, showed me that I don't want an HD handgun without a laser.

 

[Savage30L]

When they make a laser that can replace the handgun itself ("Home Death Ray", as my friend Barry used to propose), lasers will become much more popular.

 

[trackskippy]

I shoot however I would with iron sights, so pretty much in the various ways you mentioned except from a holster (I don't have holsters for my lasered guns), and not much in literal full sun because (a) I usually practice in the shade rather than full sun, and (b) even the green laser isn't highly visible in full, bright sunlight on many surfaces.

At least as good as without the laser, but I'm faster and more accurate with the laser. This is the case for me whether engaging in slow fire or faster, "active" fire.

If the laser is mounted under the sights (such as on a typical handgun rail), the "Kentucky windage" calculation is opposite of above-the-bore sights. In other words, if you are shooting a target that is 40 yards away but you have the laser sighted at 7 yards, you will need to hold LOW instead of high in order for the round to hit precisely where you want it. This is not an issue for any HD/SD type scenarios that I might expect to encounter (because I think the likelyhood of having to shoot at someone from 40 yards away is infinitesimal), but if it were to happen, I might just switch to iron sights for that shot. The "reverse KY windage" thing is something you can pretty quickly learn just like you can learn "regular" KY windage if you practice a little bit. (Or at least I learned it pretty easily with a bit of practice.)

It just doesn't work that way for me, and isn't a distraction. I'm not "looking" for the dot or "chasing" it. The dot is just there where my POI is.

The talk of chasing, or trying to find the dot make me wonder if some people are trying to shoot laser-equipped guns "from the hip" or otherwise not pointing the gun in the same manner that they do with irons? Otherwise, I just don't see how having a bright green dot appear on the target, co-witnessed with the iron sights, could be a distraction. Or how the dot could be hard to find when you pull the gun up on target in the same manner that you do with irons. When I pull my handgun up on target at any reasonable HD/SD distance, it's instantly aimed within approximately a "turkey platter" sized area of where I want the POI. Anything less than this, IMO, means I'm not practicing enough. Or any. The laser or the irons are just for fine tuning the POI. And the laser lets me do it without focusing on the sights, but instead focus maximum attention on whether the target is so seriously threatening my life that I have to pull the trigger.

I agree. It cleared it up for me quickly, showed me that I don't want an HD handgun without a laser.

Your experiences are definitely different than mine. I might have had a different opinion on this if things were working, at least as well as other things, but things were just not playing out across the board, and there were just to many negitive things going on with it for it to be a positive for me.

My irons, and my red dots are always there if Im looking for them, at any distance or in any light, and nothing interferes with that.

The laser dot is to conditions dependant, and not always visibly there, or there enough, without it now becoming a distraction and with the possibility of breaking your focus to look for it instead of shooting.

In order for something to be viable, it needs to work from however you need it to, in all conditions and lighting, and at all distances.

Hey, if it works for you, great, as long as it works when you need it to work, thats the important thing. It just didn't fill the bill for me there.

 

[Nuclear]

The one time I used a laser other than range work was in competition when it had gotten dark and the lights weren’t working well. As a result, I couldn’t see my irons and could just make out the target. I put the laser dot on the targets and finished the stage. Yes it wouldn’t have counted in an official match, but it worked well.

 

[tactikel]

IMHO lasers are detrimental to good SD shooting. Natural response is to have your eyes chase the dot. The correct response is to act more like a skeet shooter than a target shooter. Focus on mass center of the assailant (sights don’t matter) bring gun up and fire. The vast majority of SD events (according to the FBI) occur under 3 yards. You do not need a laser, you need practice.