R51 re-release

"What's interesting about the design is that Remington advertised the old Model 51 as safe to carry with a round chambered and relying only on the grip safety."
+1 on the Model 51's vestigial manual safety; apparently there were also people in those days that wouldn't carry a gun without their thumb having a job in the process (think about it; the grip safety is manually operated by gripping --why are you holding your loaded gun as if to fire, unless you intend to fire it? Same thing as trigger discipline, extended to the gun as a whole; keep it in the holster until needed)

TCB

Thanks for all the answers. I guess the idea is that the R51 grip safety is unusually positive for a grip safety. Perhaps a better comparison would be to the front-gripstrap cocking mechanism of the Heckler & Koch P7?

BTW, when I wrote my original post I should have been more clear about the Glock. It never occurs to me to consider the trigger-doohickey as a real safety device. To me, what make the Glock safe to carry is the semi-DAO trigger mechanism, which guards against accidental discharge by dropping or unintentional discharge by being long and springy.

One last thing - with the old Remington Model 51, my understanding was the all the manual safety did was keep the grip safety forced out. It still surprises me that Remington did not put something like that on the R51, at least as an optional extra. But, then again, H&K never put anything like that on the P7. Thanks again!

Any new information out yet?

All my pistols have a positive safety mechanism- my finger planted firmly on the side of the gun until I have my target aquired and identified. Firearms are not safe, they are for killing things (even if its just a paper target). All the mechanisms in the world will not compensate for poor judgement or poor training......

+1 on a .45 version of the R51- heres my $$ Remington!

Well, supposedly Remington is fixing the breechblock...will they fix the rest of the gun? Who knows.

The dearth of news regarding their (still, somehow) highly anticipated do-over is certainly not encouraging, however. To be fair, I doubt it is a Remington conspiracy to string owners out as long as possible instead of announcing a total recall, and more a symptom of their (still, somehow) inept PR department 'strategy' to confuse and obfuscate the situation.

TCB

"To me, what make the Glock safe to carry is the semi-DAO trigger mechanism, which guards against accidental discharge by dropping or unintentional discharge by being long and springy."
Technically, that trigger doo-hickey is the drop safety; it's locks the trigger bar against rearward movement in the event of a muzzle-up impact. Has nothing to do with the shooter's intentions; the gun has no manual (secondary, intentional, parallel, consecutive, etc.) safety.

TCB

The R51 is a lot more innovative than any other short recoil pistol on the market, except maybe the Boberg line (which was much better executed)

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For almost 3X the price the Boberg better be darn near perfect!

When it was first announced, I was willing to drop the money on one, after hearing positive initial reviews because I don't want to be a beta tester.

When those positive initial reviews never came, and instead receiver a whole bunch of not so good reviews, and a whole bunch of really bad reviews, peppered with a few good reviews, I decided to hold off.

I'm still not discounting the idea of the R-51. It still offers a lot in the way of a near ideal carry gun. But once again, I won't be the first in line for this new product, might not even be willing to dump as much money on it, and may simply give up on the platform entirely unless the initial reviews of the re-release are nothing short of stellar.

Between the R-51 FUBAR, and the 700 safety fiasco, I don't see Remington as being very high on my list.

Monac said:

I still do not understand this gun. It is a single action automatic with only a grip safety? If that is true, why is that now considered a good idea?

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I think you just described the XD as well.

The R51 I handled when they were first released felt like the slide was dragging over railroad ties, not rails, when racked.

I'm going to sit on the fence on this one. The proof is in the pudding. Did Remington get the pudding recipe right. No one knows until the R51 comes back out.

It's wait and see time. I'm going to give them 6 months to a year to work out any bugs and fix them if there are any. Yes, I realize that the first edition was a lemon.

If they fail at this then they are in trouble, but I am mot going to slam them. Remington will suffer greatly by having no one buy their products if this new example is half baked.

If the new R51 works after a year then I'll think about getting one.

Have they fixed the quality control problems in the factory?

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We will certainly find out in short order! I was not impressed with the fit and finish on the two I inspected a year ago. Had two customers guns lock up on the range and one discharged slightly out of battery.

Ergonomically it is a wonder. Functionally I am still skeptical.

^^^ I can confirm that the R-51 will fire out of battery. ^^^

Never had the firing pin hit the striker on on mine when I had it, but I heard an awful lot of clicks with no bang while the slide was out of battery.

Even though Remington refunded my money, I still got the letter stating that they will send me another one when the fixes have been applied... We will see...

If ever a company needed new management and a new "start" it is todays Remington. The misses way outnumber the hits. The R51's I handled were absolute junk, the slide felt as if it was grinding on sand, the grip safeties felt as if you had to get lucky to engage them, and the fit and and finish was garbage. Add in the 700 trigger issues, the QC issues with the Versa-max and 887, the absolute junk 770's and the mediocre replacement 783's.

They literally should fire all of their top brass, and try to steal some guys from Ruger, CZ or even FN. The name should mean something, right now it means buyer beware. I'd love to see them rebound, but I'm not holding out for a re-do of an absolute initial failure to be the vehicle for that turnaround. Right now there is not one market segment where Remington is the top maker in the class. Considering their history with the 700, 870, and 1100, that is tragic for what should be an American Icon.

Well, they've bought Rohrbaugh and announced the RM380. If they got that right and they can follow up with an RM9 that works, they can let the R51 pass quietly away.

I am going to purchase the RM380, I'm thinking that practicing with it is going to feel a lot like the R9.

If it works well it may become my BUG

Like others here I think I'm going to wait on the R51's re-release. I didn't think that much of the first version when it came out and that was before all the reports of problems started coming in. Hope they get it right the second time around.

I think they just blew this one, and any effort to revive it will be useless.

"I didn't think that much of the first version when it came out"
One might simply say "so don't buy one, then," but what they heck, we're here...

Just curious; did anything in particular not impress you, or was it simply how Remington configured the model (i.e. no manual safety, styling, single stack --various choices widely seen as legitimate in other models)? I thought, and still do, that it was a very well conceived & laid out offering, and actually had a lot of potential for development --too bad we 'may' have to look beyond Remington for those things

Not that it's getting much press, but it would appear that the R51's that are casually being encountered at demo's like SHOT are in proper working order and of much better quality. That combined with the acclaim that RM380s are getting in the quality department has my interest piqued (but not yet hopeful).

I do think that Debbie Downers like Mr. Burns will stymie even a perfect re-do at this point; like I said, it's barely mentioned that "the gun we messed with at SHOT felt perfect" even though that is actually pretty big/good news for those waiting on the recall.

"Never had the firing pin hit the striker on on mine when I had it, but I heard an awful lot of clicks with no bang while the slide was out of battery."
It depends on where your short-chambered gun would seize up. Sounds like yours tended to bind up right before the block would begin to cam downward, which means the slide could not move enough relative to the block to expose the tail of the firing pin. Technically, the gun can't have a striker-induced incident out of "battery," by which I mean when the block is not locked against the frame --but what can happen is the block not going fully forward after dropping down to lock, at which point the initial shift of the action needed to cycle it upon firing cannot be obtained. Still lame that it's even an issue, though.

TCB

Is it October yet?

On gunbroker...current bid over $700...only 4+ days of frenzied bidding remaining!!!

Frankly, I can't wait for the Rm380 and the R51 to hit the market. I like both designs and plan to buy them if all is well.

On gunbroker...current bid over $700...only 4+ days of frenzied bidding remaining!!!

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Madre de Dios! I may have to think about selling mine off; I don't think Remington will match that

TCB

I want one. It looks like a sweet pistol assuming it runs right.

barnbwt said:

Madre de Dios! I may have to think about selling mine off; I don't think Remington will match that

TCB

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Mamma mia, that is lot of "bread" for a Keltecington.